Il Lombardia 2016, Oct 1st

[barmaher]

This was a really great day of cycling. There was a lot of sport on Saturday, and I had planned to flick between the horse racing, cycling and golf, but I couldn't really switch the Lombardia off.

Rosa rode a great race. It is great to see Uran back to form. Maybe he was a shade off his peak, as I think he wins a sprint like that if he is in really top shape. Did he maybe do too much work earlier on when he was trying to make the group of c. 15 when the main selection was made?

And by the way, the course is absolutely perfect. This year's course and last year's course were so much better than some of the abominations we have been dished up recently.

 

[Anderis]

Re:

It is great to see Uran back to form. Maybe he was a shade off his peak, as I think he wins a sprint like that if he is in really top shape. Did he maybe do too much work earlier on when he was trying to make the group of c. 15 when the main selection was made?

The reasons why Uran lost the sprint were IMO:
- the mistake he made on a descent of penultimate climb, which costed him energy to catch up again.
- the fact that he had to bring Rosa's last attack back without relying on Chaves.
- the small acceleration he made after he caught Rosa. It was not enough to put the others in real difficulty, but enough to burn some energy unnecessarily.
I can also imagine that following Chaves on the last climb could have costed him quite a bit. Chaves is probably more explosive of the two.

Some little details that all together could have had quite a significant effect.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

No. Rosa was so strong that obviously riding all the others off his wheel was the best possible strategy

Duran Duran lost energy by missing a split. Chaves was always at the front, played it cool on the final descent and got a fine win (although at the end I was shouting for Rosa).

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

No. Rosa was so strong that obviously riding all the others off his wheel was the best possible strategy

Duran Duran lost energy by missing a split. Chaves was always at the front, played it cool on the final descent and got a fine win (although at the end I was shouting for Rosa).

Apparently Martinelli was not happy. Said Rosa disobeyed orders.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

No. Rosa was so strong that obviously riding all the others off his wheel was the best possible strategy

Duran Duran lost energy by missing a split. Chaves was always at the front, played it cool on the final descent and got a fine win (although at the end I was shouting for Rosa).

Apparently Martinelli was not happy. Said Rosa disobeyed orders.

What Landa had to do in his day to win a Giro.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re: Re:

"Fabio told me to play my own card as soon as I told him I felt good after 60km. He's a gentleman"

Either you're playing PR, or messing with the kilometers, or you have to be tactically inept to play your own card by setting the pace for the entire Miragolo San Salvatore.

No. Rosa was so strong that obviously riding all the others off his wheel was the best possible strategy

Duran Duran lost energy by missing a split. Chaves was always at the front, played it cool on the final descent and got a fine win (although at the end I was shouting for Rosa).

Apparently Martinelli was not happy. Said Rosa disobeyed orders.

Martinelli is just wrong, both Chaves and Uran would've beaten Rosa in a straight up sprint

 

[Taxus4a]

It was a great race to remember. perfect route, perfect tactics for the main favourites...climbers do hard the race in the 5 hard climbs in a row, by attackig in the key points of every climb...and latter to play his cards at the end. Passion, tears, wide smiles,...

I was with Uran , he did what he had to do,, maybe he could eliminate Rosa at the top of Bergamo alta, but he deserved this importat podium, not a better place, Rosa and Chaves were great. ·3th podium in this monumet it is not a bad mark.

Chaves is a more reliable rider than Rigo and a excelent climber. But if Rigo is OK can be with him on the mountains, he can be with him in a race as Lombardia, he can win Quebec, wich it is not possible for Chaves, and he can time trial better, so potentially Uran is today a better rider, but the fact is that Chaves had an excellet season with very important results and is today an step ahead than Uran, becouse wich counts is results, not potential, and to resolve well the finish, something difficult for Urán. This time I think he did well, he just wasnt the strongest by a little, as other times he lose...this times the tree riders won, even Bardet, it was a superb race, but one of them won more.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re:

It was a great race to remember. perfect route, perfect tactics for the main favourites...climbers do hard the race in the 5 hard climbs in a row, by attackig in the key points of every climb...and latter to play his cards at the end. Passion, tears, wide smiles,...

I was with Uran , he did what he had to do,, maybe he could eliminate Rosa at the top of Bergamo alta, but he deserved this importat podium, not a better place, Rosa and Chaves were great. ·3th podium in this monumet it is not a bad mark.

Chaves is a more reliable rider than Rigo and a excelent climber. But if Rigo is OK can be with him on the mountains, he can be with him in a race as Lombardia, he can win Quebec, wich it is not possible for Chaves, and he can time trial better, so potentially Uran is today a better rider, but the fact is that Chaves had an excellet season with very important results and is today an step ahead than Uran, becouse wich counts is results, not potential, and to resolve well the finish, something difficult for Urán. This time I think he did well, he just wasnt the strongest by a little, as other times he lose...this times the tree riders won, even Bardet, it was a superb race, but one of them won more.

I agree with most of this, but I do think Chaves has an extra gear in the mountains that Uran lacks. Chaves seems to be a lot more explosive, whereas Rigo is more of a tempo rider in very steep hills. Chaves can potentially do well in Fleche and LBL, for example.

 

[yaco]

Re:

It was a great race to remember. perfect route, perfect tactics for the main favourites...climbers do hard the race in the 5 hard climbs in a row, by attackig in the key points of every climb...and latter to play his cards at the end. Passion, tears, wide smiles,...

I was with Uran , he did what he had to do,, maybe he could eliminate Rosa at the top of Bergamo alta, but he deserved this importat podium, not a better place, Rosa and Chaves were great. ·3th podium in this monumet it is not a bad mark.

Chaves is a more reliable rider than Rigo and a excelent climber. But if Rigo is OK can be with him on the mountains, he can be with him in a race as Lombardia, he can win Quebec, wich it is not possible for Chaves, and he can time trial better, so potentially Uran is today a better rider, but the fact is that Chaves had an excellet season with very important results and is today an step ahead than Uran, becouse wich counts is results, not potential, and to resolve well the finish, something difficult for Urán. This time I think he did well, he just wasnt the strongest by a little, as other times he lose...this times the tree riders won, even Bardet, it was a superb race, but one of them won more.

I suggest that Uran is best suited one week stage races or specific one day races - He should forget about GC at grand tours.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

It was a great race to remember. perfect route, perfect tactics for the main favourites...climbers do hard the race in the 5 hard climbs in a row, by attackig in the key points of every climb...and latter to play his cards at the end. Passion, tears, wide smiles,...

I was with Uran , he did what he had to do,, maybe he could eliminate Rosa at the top of Bergamo alta, but he deserved this importat podium, not a better place, Rosa and Chaves were great. ·3th podium in this monumet it is not a bad mark.

Chaves is a more reliable rider than Rigo and a excelent climber. But if Rigo is OK can be with him on the mountains, he can be with him in a race as Lombardia, he can win Quebec, wich it is not possible for Chaves, and he can time trial better, so potentially Uran is today a better rider, but the fact is that Chaves had an excellet season with very important results and is today an step ahead than Uran, becouse wich counts is results, not potential, and to resolve well the finish, something difficult for Urán. This time I think he did well, he just wasnt the strongest by a little, as other times he lose...this times the tree riders won, even Bardet, it was a superb race, but one of them won more.

I agree with most of this, but I do think Chaves has an extra gear in the mountains that Uran lacks. Chaves seems to be a lot more explosive, whereas Rigo is more of a tempo rider in very steep hills. Chaves can potentially do well in Fleche and LBL, for example.

Yes Chavez should try Fleche, though the cobbled finish in LBL may be problematic.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

It was a great race to remember. perfect route, perfect tactics for the main favourites...climbers do hard the race in the 5 hard climbs in a row, by attackig in the key points of every climb...and latter to play his cards at the end. Passion, tears, wide smiles,...

I was with Uran , he did what he had to do,, maybe he could eliminate Rosa at the top of Bergamo alta, but he deserved this importat podium, not a better place, Rosa and Chaves were great. ·3th podium in this monumet it is not a bad mark.

Chaves is a more reliable rider than Rigo and a excelent climber. But if Rigo is OK can be with him on the mountains, he can be with him in a race as Lombardia, he can win Quebec, wich it is not possible for Chaves, and he can time trial better, so potentially Uran is today a better rider, but the fact is that Chaves had an excellet season with very important results and is today an step ahead than Uran, becouse wich counts is results, not potential, and to resolve well the finish, something difficult for Urán. This time I think he did well, he just wasnt the strongest by a little, as other times he lose...this times the tree riders won, even Bardet, it was a superb race, but one of them won more.

I agree with most of this, but I do think Chaves has an extra gear in the mountains that Uran lacks. Chaves seems to be a lot more explosive, whereas Rigo is more of a tempo rider in very steep hills. Chaves can potentially do well in Fleche and LBL, for example.

I agree with you, but as you see here Uran could follow all of the attacks of Chaves , even drop a big climber talent as Bardet (maybe"pave" afected) and he has been very strog in the mountais as well, for example Zoncolan with Quitana. But if you ask me who I consider best climber I say Chaves, he has showed both on shape is better than Contador on the climbs, so very hight level.

But other way is le Tour de Frace, there, to shine every day on the moutais you have to be more than a excellet climber or to lose time before

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

It was a great race to remember. perfect route, perfect tactics for the main favourites...climbers do hard the race in the 5 hard climbs in a row, by attackig in the key points of every climb...and latter to play his cards at the end. Passion, tears, wide smiles,...

I was with Uran , he did what he had to do,, maybe he could eliminate Rosa at the top of Bergamo alta, but he deserved this importat podium, not a better place, Rosa and Chaves were great. ·3th podium in this monumet it is not a bad mark.

Chaves is a more reliable rider than Rigo and a excelent climber. But if Rigo is OK can be with him on the mountains, he can be with him in a race as Lombardia, he can win Quebec, wich it is not possible for Chaves, and he can time trial better, so potentially Uran is today a better rider, but the fact is that Chaves had an excellet season with very important results and is today an step ahead than Uran, becouse wich counts is results, not potential, and to resolve well the finish, something difficult for Urán. This time I think he did well, he just wasnt the strongest by a little, as other times he lose...this times the tree riders won, even Bardet, it was a superb race, but one of them won more.

I agree with most of this, but I do think Chaves has an extra gear in the mountains that Uran lacks. Chaves seems to be a lot more explosive, whereas Rigo is more of a tempo rider in very steep hills. Chaves can potentially do well in Fleche and LBL, for example.

Yes Chavez should try Fleche, though the cobbled finish in LBL may be problematic.

We will see, Chaves is a typical pure climber, I dont see him shining in Fleche...maybe better in Liege, becous ehe showed endurace, but.. this year Lombardie had 4500 meters, hard climbs i a row at the end, a race for climbers, although he finished very well i a tipical clasic end...

Uran was 5 in Liege, but he is more versatile.. and he was 5 after the Shleck brothers and Gilbert who has never showed that hight level later.

 

[WheelofGear]

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

I tend to agree; take a look back at those stages he won early in 2015 Vuelta, esp st6. I don't think they'll send him there this year as they may allow a final bash at his favourite hill to Albasini with one of the Yates as option B; but in future I could well see them looking to set him up with a fast lead into the Mur De Huy ... which is how they delivered him to such hills at last year's Vuelta.

Liege also often has crappy weather which he may seek to avoid if he is being set for Giro

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

127 ad 45 has been his places so far in Flecha. Flecha is not just Huy, and Flecha is not as Ezaro or Giro dell Emillia.

He could do it well in Flecha if a team work for him ad place him well, but that is not sure.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

127 ad 45 has been his places so far in Flecha. Flecha is not just Huy, and Flecha is not as Ezaro or Giro dell Emillia.

He could do it well in Flecha if a team work for him ad place him well, but that is not sure.

In neither race was he designated as "the man" for his team. Nothing really should be gauged from those outings bar, perhaps, an indication that his team feels this may be a race for him in the future. Whilst FW IS more than just the Mur, its recent history has been that of a large group converging at its foot for the final ascent.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

127 ad 45 has been his places so far in Flecha. Flecha is not just Huy, and Flecha is not as Ezaro or Giro dell Emillia.

He could do it well in Flecha if a team work for him ad place him well, but that is not sure.

In neither race was he designated as "the man" for his team. Nothing really should be gauged from those outings bar, perhaps, an indication that his team feels this may be a race for him in the future. Whilst FW IS more than just the Mur, its recent history has been that of a large group converging at its foot for the final ascent.

Yes, but not everybody is the same tired at that foot.
A classic is raced different tha a stage usually.

If he would have bee the man in those races we wouldt have any doubt. I just said there is nothig to say he can be as good as Henao or Bananito on Flecha, and Imo he is not, he could do it better in Lieje.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

127 ad 45 has been his places so far in Flecha. Flecha is not just Huy, and Flecha is not as Ezaro or Giro dell Emillia.

He could do it well in Flecha if a team work for him ad place him well, but that is not sure.

In neither race was he designated as "the man" for his team. Nothing really should be gauged from those outings bar, perhaps, an indication that his team feels this may be a race for him in the future. Whilst FW IS more than just the Mur, its recent history has been that of a large group converging at its foot for the final ascent.

Yes, but not everybody is the same tired at that foot.
A classic is raced different tha a stage usually.

If he would have bee the man in those races we wouldt have any doubt. I just said there is nothig to say he can be as good as Henao or Bananito on Flecha, and Imo he is not, he could do it better in Lieje.

We'll just have to see how these next couple of seasons play out; he MAY be given a run at the Ardennes races but maybe the Yates will be prioritised for those races. Realistically, the first time Chaves was ever seriously "targeted" for a one day classic was 2015 Lombardie.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

127 ad 45 has been his places so far in Flecha. Flecha is not just Huy, and Flecha is not as Ezaro or Giro dell Emillia.

He could do it well in Flecha if a team work for him ad place him well, but that is not sure.

In neither race was he designated as "the man" for his team. Nothing really should be gauged from those outings bar, perhaps, an indication that his team feels this may be a race for him in the future. Whilst FW IS more than just the Mur, its recent history has been that of a large group converging at its foot for the final ascent.

Yes, but not everybody is the same tired at that foot.
A classic is raced different tha a stage usually.

If he would have bee the man in those races we wouldt have any doubt. I just said there is nothig to say he can be as good as Henao or Bananito on Flecha, and Imo he is not, he could do it better in Lieje.

Agree. Can't see him winning Flecha nor Liege

 

[WheelofGear]

If Anton, Samu, Schleck, Gesink, Mollema and Contador can do well in La Flèche Wallonne, so can Chaves.

There is nothing that suggest that he wouldn't be able to finish in top 3. In fact, he should at some point. Perhaps even win it.

 

[Oliver]

If he's well placed in the group at the bottom of mur de Huy, which is very important, he's able to finish top 3. If Liege is riding hard enough he must have a good chance too. But I think next year Orica will use other riders to focus those classics.

 

[staubsauger]

Pantani placed top 10 in both FW & LBL back in 1997. I don't see why Chaves shouldn't be able to do the same in theory. He's got a nice uphill sprint as well!

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

If Anton, Samu, Schleck, Gesink, Mollema and Contador can do well in La Flèche Wallonne, so can Chaves.

There is nothing that suggest that he wouldn't be able to finish in top 3. In fact, he should at some point. Perhaps even win it.

Yeah, he can do well, just like those guys you mention, But neither of them won Fleche and I doubt Chaves will...

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Re:

Chaves has the punch to win Flèche. He is great on short, steep climbs. Liege is a a possibility too but requires more luck.

127 ad 45 has been his places so far in Flecha. Flecha is not just Huy, and Flecha is not as Ezaro or Giro dell Emillia.

He could do it well in Flecha if a team work for him ad place him well, but that is not sure.

In neither race was he designated as "the man" for his team. Nothing really should be gauged from those outings bar, perhaps, an indication that his team feels this may be a race for him in the future. Whilst FW IS more than just the Mur, its recent history has been that of a large group converging at its foot for the final ascent.

Fleche is a weird race even though guys who it suits like (Jrod and Evans) do not have more then one or two wins. Chaves will 100% get a Fleche win before his career ends

 

[Anderis]

Re: Re:

Chaves will 100% get a Fleche win before his career ends

There are not such things like 100% certain events in sports.