Il Lombardia 2022, one day monument, October 8, farewell to Nibali and Valverde

[Netserk]

Record isn't surprising.

Record by 20s is surprising

Record was from 2019 and set by Mollema. No Muro this year, but perfect circumstances for a max performance.

The eternal tailwind has only gotten increasingly stronger since then.

 

[Red Rick]

Record was from 2019 and set by Mollema. No Muro this year, but perfect circumstances for a max performance.

The eternal tailwind has only gotten increasingly stronger since then.

I think it's more down to eternal tailwind than no Muro. They had no Muro in Giro 2019 and it wasn't the record, plus this year it was still a pretty hard race before they hit Civiglio. IMO freshness was comparable to a Muro route, apart from 2018. I also think Civiglio often doesn't have the best pacing strategies.

But yeah eternal tailwind vroom vroom.

 

[Leinster]

The months off took their toll on you.

The Poggio was quite disappointing this year.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't rate Hindley at all compared to Mas, honestly. Hindley has ridden one race at a high level, Mas has ridden the whole year at a high level and has shown to be able to follow Remco and Pogacar in the most important races. Carapaz? I'd definitely take Mas over him next year, and honestly, that might be the same case with Roglic.

DNF Tirreno, 9th in Itzulia and DNF Tour is hardly 'high level all year'. Nor has Mas ever done anything like Hindley on Fedaia.

So this is mostly recency bias.

 

[Valv.Piti]

DNF Tirreno, 9th in Itzulia and DNF Tour is hardly 'high level all year'. Nor has Mas ever done anything like Hindley on Fedaia.

So this is mostly recency bias.

He crashed hard in Tirreno and Itzulia. Those races he was a lot better than he has ever been in week long races, and would probably finished around podium in both. Same with Dauphine.

His Tour was ***, but I do believe that had a lot more do to with his mental than his actual psyhical abilities.

I don't pick either Carapaz, Hindley, Bernal, Ayuso, Thomas or whoever over Mas for the upcoming season. Only those 4 riders I mentioned I think are better

 

[noob]

In the end he DNF.

Yup I just saw that. The amount of DNF in this race is absolutely astounding :O

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

Piccolo finishing 11th is pretty impressive. Man is only 21 like.

...and the best Italian rider in the race. Ciccone 15th. The only two Italian riders in the top 20.
Thought it must be some kind of all time low, but checked and it was even worse in 2019.

 

[hayneplane]

Where have the Uber Mas haters been the last month? Up until the first real stages of the Vuelta, we had certain posters would pop into every major race thread just to take a crap on him.

Would not describe myself as a hater but previously I certainly thought he was a timid and limited rider that would not do better than he already had.

Fair play to him he has attacked more in the last 3 months than the rest of his career to date and justly been rewarded with some excellent results.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Would not describe myself as a hater but previously I certainly thought he was a timid and limited rider that would not do better than he already had.

Fair play to him he has attacked more in the last 3 months than the rest of his career to date and justly been rewarded with some excellent results.

I agree with you, perhaps with Valverde not around next year and a team management that may very belatedly be starting to believe in him is helping.

 

[tobydawq]

DNF Tirreno, 9th in Itzulia and DNF Tour is hardly 'high level all year'. Nor has Mas ever done anything like Hindley on Fedaia.

So this is mostly recency bias.

Yeah, I'm not a Mas fan at all, either, but as Valv says, he literally crashed away from good results in three one-week races this year.

I guess if recency bias is a term that includes forgetting accidents that didn't happen too recently, you might technically be correct, but it's not really an argument that brings you anywhere.

 

[Netserk]

DNF Tirreno, 9th in Itzulia and DNF Tour is hardly 'high level all year'. Nor has Mas ever done anything like Hindley on Fedaia.

So this is mostly recency bias.

High level is a matter of performances, not results.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502745439543697412

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1502745439543697412

Dani Martinez wins Itzulia after a crazy day to Arrate

Arrate 2022:4,9 km@9,7%---15:28---average speed 19.01 km/h(I.Izagirre-Martinez-Vlasov-Vingegaard-Mas-Soler) ...

www.climbing-records.com

Arrate
2022:4,9 km@9,7%---15:28---average speed 19.01 km/h(I.Izagirre-Martinez-Vlasov-Vingegaard-Mas-Soler)
---15:36---average speed 18.85 km/h(Pello Bilbao)
---15:43---average speed 18.71 km/h(Remco Evenepoel)
2021:4,9 km@9,7%---15:28---average speed 19.01 km/h(Pogacar-Vingegaard-A.Yates)
---15:38---average speed 18.81 km/h(Roglic-Gaudu-Carthy)

 

[Bolder]

Would not describe myself as a hater but previously I certainly thought he was a timid and limited rider that would not do better than he already had.

Fair play to him he has attacked more in the last 3 months than the rest of his career to date and justly been rewarded with some excellent results.

Yes. This. I just watched the last 80 km on delay, and I don't know what's gotten into Mas the last few months. He physically looks stronger, more snappy, more confident. Maybe just a case of getting his training and nutrition down, but if you told me this spring he'd be going toe to toe with Pogi in the last kms of Lombardia I'd have been extremely skeptical. Great race by UAE, that pull by Formolo really separated the contenders from the pretenders.

Pogacar bookends his season with wins at UAE tour and Lombardia...he is still the best overall in my book, although by a little bit less this year.

 

[Red Rick]

Vingegaard meanwhile quite disappointing today. Any word on what happened to him or did he just try way too hard to close down on Civiglio and go poof completely?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vingegaard meanwhile quite disappointing today. Any word on what happened to him or did he just try way too hard to close down on Civiglio and go poof completely?

Maybe the latter, he tried hard but hit the wall. Besides, his non-Tour level is more ordinary: at Tirreno he got stomped by Pogacar in a similar fashion.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe the latter, he tried hard but hit the wall. Besides, his non-Tour level is more ordinary, at Tirreno he got stomped by Pogacar in a similar fashion.

I don't think there's a reason he should be worse than Mas in one day races. But it could easily be just blowing up, or not enough training/racing in the buildup for such a long, hard race.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think there's a reason he should be worse than Mas in one day races. But it could easily be just blowing up, or not enough training/racing in the buildup for such a long, hard race.

Mas is in a superb condition though, maybe the best of his life (without him Pog would have won this solo quite comfortably). OTOH Vinge has not recovered his form since the Tour.

 

[Netserk]

Vingegaard meanwhile quite disappointing today. Any word on what happened to him or did he just try way too hard to close down on Civiglio and go poof completely?

He was better than last year.

 

[Red Rick]

Mas is in a superb condition though, maybe the best of his life (without him Pog would have won this solo quite comfortably). OTOH Vinge has not recovered his form since the Tour.

Few Tour GC riders did much after the Tour, and Pog was back racing way before Vingegaard, plus he easily is already the superior one day racer.

 

[Bolder]

He was better than last year.

He was actually quite good today until the final 10 km or so, then he faded a bit. I suspect (and I think he's said) that winning the Tour was a bit of a shocker, so maybe trying for a second peak this year was a bit too much. But physically, a race like today's Lombardia should be right in his wheelhouse.

 

[Lequack]

What can you say about this? No words, perfect ride. Chapeu

 

[DNP-Old]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578840359274106880

View: https://twitter.com/Le_Beau_Velo/status/1578840359274106880


Oopsie.

 

[tobydawq]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578840359274106880

View: https://twitter.com/Le_Beau_Velo/status/1578840359274106880


Oopsie.

?

 

[gunara]

It's weird to call Mas doing well in a monument predictable, but having him duelling, and getting beaten in a sprint by, Pogi in the finale was the least surprising thing that could happen judging by what happenned in the last week. One of the most predictable editions in recent time, I guess.

Also, I realize that only 3 grand tour winners won it this century, all of them more than once though, and Valverde is the only other GT winner to podium it this century (Di Luca and Basso had their win and podium here before becoming a GT winner). Not so easy for the 3-week top dogs to hold their form up to here, even for those with proven one-day race pedigree.

 

[Lequack]

So the only question that remains is, by how much would Remco have won it, and when would he attack?

 

[Red Rick]

It's weird to call Mas doing well in a monument predictable, but having him duelling, and getting beaten in a sprint by, Pogi in the finale was the least surprising thing that could happen judging by what happenned in the last week. One of the most predictable editions in recent time, I guess.

Also, I realize that only 3 grand tour winners won it this century, all of them more than once though, and Valverde is the only other GT winner to podium it this century (Di Luca and Basso had their win and podium here before becoming a GT winner). Not so easy for the 3-week top dogs to hold their form up to here, even for those with proven one-day race pedigree.

Lombardia going to mountainious routes played a huge rule IMO, it's very hard to compare before/after