Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Yes and as I tried asking on a number of occasions who is Gianetti’s Dr Ferrari? Never get an answer. Below is a link to Gianetti's medical and sports science staff:

Health & Trainings - UAE team Emirates

The first UAE World Tour cycling team

www.uaeteamemirates.com

A few notable names from the link:

• Jeroen Swart - Professor of sports medicine
• Iñigo San Millán - Professor of medicine
• Adriano Rotunno - Medical Director
• Dr Federico Paoletti - Doctor

Do we know anything interesting from a doping perspective about these people or any others in the link?

Millán is "Mr zone 2"

Do any have doping links back to Gianetti's shady past? Because Gianetti himself would not have a clue how to a) execute the techniques safely, b) avoid detection and c) provide a big performance boost that other teams haven't mastered.

I don't get why you're searching for a single "Gianetti's Ferrari", there's probably more than one of them, with different tasks (e.g. "what to take and how" and "where do we get the good stuff" can be/should be handled by two different person) , and they might come and go across the years.
In the past he worked with Dr Ibarguren (of Saulnier fame) and Guido Nigrelli (a pharmacist who got suspended jail time for the Mantova bust).
The present Ferrari(s) might very well be someone totally unknown or someone hiding in plain sight (after all a guy like Geert Leinders looked like a rather "plain" cycling doctor until we learned what he was actually up to at Rabo). Hiding in plain sight isn't that hard anyway, you've got people like JV trying to pass San Millan as a clean cycling knight, which is hilarious when you look at who he worked with.

 

[YellowSocks]

Else this is little more than rival fan based annoyance at their doper getting beaten.

You're not ready to give up on this idea, are you? Which rival doped rider are people here fans of? Personally, I don't know.

 

[AlpRaid]

UAE “physio” staff being poached by Football teams.

I guess they “want what she is having”.

lol. Another similarity with the arrival of epo and its providers in the early 90s.

 

[Netserk]

You're not ready to give up on this idea, are you? Which rival doped rider are people here fans of? Personally, I don't know.

It sounds more like a confession than accusation.

 

[Unchained]

UAE “physio” staff being poached by Football teams.

I guess they “want what she is having”.

lol. Another similarity with the arrival of epo and its providers in the early 90s.

This is made even more funny because of how traditionally fringe and underfunded bike racing is.. So for fitness professional to come from cycling and go to another sport with high endurance component.
So football is looking outside itself for marginal gains, fitness, nutrition, ect.
Where the real problems are is that cycling is not attracting people from outside. If bike racing wants real return on investment, they need to poach marketing executives from football of all kinds. UAE is an absolute best case scenario. Pogacar being described as possibly the best rider in bike racing history..
UCI and it's inner circle making Pogacar harder to see than Bigfoot.
Isaac Del Toro getting as much media attention as any rider in recent history and UCI selling nothing..
Del Toro finding himself attractive to hundreds of millions of fans, US with 10s of millions of Mexican heritage and tens of millions more Spanish speakers. Mexico is @135 million.. Colombia, Argentina, both large countries with built in fan base and UCI possibly working with teams on super secret plans to promote the sport.

And if cycling were to go poaching.. NFL would be the place to start, American football being marketing in Europe, in Mexico, NFL explosion of availability, with specialized pay networks games on Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, cable like ESPN, NFL selling games to sponsors on Sunday, Monday, Thursdays. The league selling directly to European audience, selling specifically to women.
Pulling out stops, doing anything and everything to expand the marketing base..meanwhile UCI can't figure out which teams will participate next year and having multiple layer mess with countries hosting races, people afraid of cycling product.
Places like Canary Islands saying association with cycling is just too risky currently. And all this time Pogacar sending signals that he has an exit plan, sending additional signals about bucket list races he wants to try before his career ends.
UCI better do some emergency poaching for promoting the sport, home grown talent in cycling is obviously clueless..
cycling needs to go other sports , sports that are making billions and ask about doping control programs that have consumer confidence and allow other sports to be profitable. Recently reported that Visma lost money, Lotto Intermerchie is a mess, NSN and Israel Premier Tech fusion is completely f%&ked up..
Franchises are in a constant state of funding flux frailty and nobody knows if they have money and how much.
Bike racing could really do itself a favor by getting some new blood, new ways of thinking from football.. Football knows how to grow, knows promotion and profit. It's really, really heartbreaking to see consumer confidence in the toilet for decades, UCI can't figure out a way to confirm to the public that there are sound testing practices and policies in place. Public doesn't have confidence in the integrity of the sport or riders.
Possibly the greatest rider in history and it's all overshadowed by mismanagement and lack of credibility top down.
Sports fans worldwide watch other professional sports, none are managed like pro cycling, none as chronically plundered in scandal like bike racing. The chance to promote Tadej Pogacar appears to be on the downside of his career. Been doing phenomenal since 2018, UCI still getting drug testing results back from same time period.
Others like handball, hockey, cricket, football, basketball, F1,baseball, rugby all doing things differently.. And cycling never thinks to look outward? Why are we failing? Why are they ( take your pick) successful?
In the US we have a few phenomenal stories, one is a female basketball player that appears to single handedly putting women's basketball in the public eye. And as if her storyline couldn't get more push, she shot a 61 golf score in a pro am event. That score got interest because it rivals scores from current female pro golfers. And women's professional soccer also has a market, a sport that really didn't exist @20 years ago, now has a fan base and some revenue stream. Meanwhile cycling can't market stars, can't get steady revenue stream and has a multiple layer of relegation.. Teams either under perform or just collapse under financial pressures that have multiple teams holding on by dental floss financially.
Pogacar is awesome but unknown, bike racing is exciting, easy to understand and watch, it's just so, so mismanaged that it's every move is counter productive. Taking years to catch cheats hurts the sport overall, really really hurts guys like Tadej because UCI has created a normal that waiting for years to get test results is an accepted behavior, an accepted way of doing business. If fans, sponsors, races( countries) can't trust what they are watching, promoting is clean.. Who's fault is that? Can't be Pogacar's responsibility.

 

[Cookster15]

I don't get why you're searching for a single "Gianetti's Ferrari"

Any number would suffice as Mr Gianetti most certainly isn’t an expert in blood manipulation.

This thread was started in 2020 right after Pogi snatched the 2020 TdF from Roglic and Visma at the 2020 TdF. Gianetti's dirty background as a rider in the 90s and as a manager at the 2008 TdF is insufficient to explain what we are seeing.

I feel many who come here underestimate the medical expertise required to deliver huge performance gains (ie, bigger than rival teams manage with similar "techniques") and yet avoid detection under the biological passport.

I’m not exonerating Pogacar, just seeking feasible explanations how his performances are possible without getting caught.

 

[BubbaChuck]

You can just look pog back than or now.And than look remco or seixas.its hilarius he won tour with that body,lmao.crazy talent,even better than his results.

 

[aphronesis]

Any number would suffice as Mr Gianetti most certainly isn’t an expert in blood manipulation.

This thread was started in 2020 right after Pogi snatched the 2020 TdF from Roglic and Visma at the 2020 TdF. Gianetti's dirty background as a rider in the 90s and as a manager at the 2008 TdF is insufficient to explain what we are seeing.

I feel many who come here underestimate the medical expertise required to deliver huge performance gains (ie, bigger than rival teams manage with similar "techniques") and yet avoid detection under the biological passport.

I’m not exonerating Pogacar, just seeking feasible explanations how his performances are possible without getting caught.

Any number of accounts of Postal/Discovery and Sky (arguably higher profile and more systemic of recent teams, but Astana, etc) suggest that the conditions to enable doping are deeply embedded or saturated across the personnel structure, with, obviously some arm’s reach at the administrative level. Presumably most of the day to day people aren’t broadcasting their function.

This Substack series, by way of example, that I can’t access and quote here

Skyfall #1: 'Living a lie' - exposing the dark underbelly of British cycling's golden age

In the summer of 2012, Team Sky reiterated that they were the cleanest cycling team in the world, with no employees who had any doping history. That was far from true.

sportingintelligence832.substack.com

How the UAE deal with some of that may be less transparent and less concerned with minor PR hiccups, maybe more fluid also.

I think there may also be an over valuation of medical qualification. People (maybe not Gianetti) can learn and assimilate these things in their discrete contexts such as cycling and testing. Probably not without professional (medical/scientific) input and some arms race aspects. And there’s the industrial scale of testing to be thought around.

Outside the team context, Bruyneel is making noise recently about how, again, only lower profile people get hit. For the symbolic reasons, but also, he suggests for how protracted and expensive the fight would be. However crap or banal his race analyses, he might be closer on this one.

Not that it’s necessarily his insight anyway as this predates it by a couple of years

“Other cyclists such as Juanjo Cobo and Denis Menchov were sanctioned after retiring from competition. The Spaniard lost his 2011 Vuelta a España title eight years later after a long negotiation with the UCI and, importantly, with the rider not having sufficient financial resources to fight the legal battle all the way to the end.”