Iron Man Hawaii : No Americans at doping control?

[Cloxxki]

I just found this reported by one of the triathletes that WAS there. No food available for the athletes that were shivering under blankets in the 35ºC heat. Bodily fluids only ran in ways we don't usually want them to run.
Apperently, they were there for a long time, and no Americans were there.

Any intel about this, or proof to falsify the report?

Honest coincidence? I suppose if you underperform, and get lucky with the lottery, it's possible on home soil to not have to pee.

Just seemed like peculiar news.

 

[Fester]

Ironman is a private franchise. As such it's not in their best interest to have doping cases...

Like boxing, F1, IOC, corruption simply isn't a problem in Ironman. It's all kept within.

Incidentally, after watching some police drama set in Hawaii, I was amazed by the trivialization of doping in the triathlon by the program. I was also thinking that people who live outside hawaii would be at a huge disadvantage regardless of doping, since the WC take place there every year.

It's like any other professional sport I suppose. I think only cycling has truly looked at controlling doping.

Do you have a link to the story?

 

[keen_but_slow]

Can you post the article? I can't understand what your point is.

WTC do have a testing programme - not enormously thorough, but doping isn't enormously rife in the sport. They caught Nina Kraft in 2004 so they've shown they're prepared to ding the winner.

If your question is why no US men were tested at Kona, I'd suggest it's because none of them did very well. No home win since Tim DeBoom?

 

[euanli]

WTC do have a testing programme - not enormously thorough, but doping isn't enormously rife in the sport.

really? I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

[laziali]

Why test in ironman - it's not like it's a real sport. Back to cycling now.

 

[krebs303]

I've searched for 2 days and there is no story or link I can find.
If it would be anywhere it would be Slowtwitch forums but nothing there.

I usually find most people who don't like triathlon can't swim

 

[Cloxxki]

I've searched for 2 days and there is no story or link I can find.
If it would be anywhere it would be Slowtwitch forums but nothing there.

I usually find most people who don't like triathlon can't swim

It's in Dutch, a response to a link to a newspaper article.
losseveter.nl/blog/bas-diederen-aan-infuus-na-droomdebuut/

Bas Diederen zei:
@iedereen Te gek dat ik uiteindelijk na al die jaren ook eens voor een lange keten met reacties weet te zorgen op losseveter.

Mooi dat direct de link met doping wordt gelegd bij het woord infuus.
Het ging hier om water met zoutoplossing. Sterker nog, ik durf te stellen dat het infuus niet nodig was geweest als er GEEN dopingcontrole geweest was!!

Ik kwam over de finish, uiteraard totaal uitgeput. Ik werd opgevangen door, ik dacht een vrijwilliger. Het bleek iemand van de dopingcontrole die mij direct door liet lopen LANGS alle verzorgingsposten na de finish, rechtstreeks het hotel in waar ik na 10 minuten strompelen aankwam. Ik heb vervolgens 1,5 tot 2 uur bij de dopingcontrole gezeten. Ik heb een badkuip ondergekotst en had last van diarree. Ik zat daar met meerdere atleten die vroegen om medische assistentie omdat een aantal van ons in dekens gewikkeld lag te rillen (het was daar 35 graden). Het enige waar de doping officials in geïnteresseerd waren was dat we moesten plassen in een potje. Hoe ik en anderen erbij zaten en lagen maakte niets uit. Er was GEEN eten aanwezig. 2 uur na de finish mocht ik gaan, ik vond het een wonder dat mijn urine nog de goede ph waarde had. Na een wedstrijd van bijna 9 uur, de 2 uur erna niets eten en alleen maar overgeven ben ik toch naar de medical tent gestapt.

Gelukkig is het in NL beter geregeld, volgens mij heb je daar 2 uur de tijd om je te melden. Je krijgt wel zo'n mannetje achter je aan, maar je mag jezelf wel even verzorgen.

Om de discussie nog verder wat leven in te blazen, er waren toevallig GEEN Amerikaanse atleten bij de dopingcontrole. Dat is ook vreemd niet?

14 oktober, 2011, 9:08u

 

[Berzin]

WTC do have a testing programme - not enormously thorough, but doping isn't enormously rife in the sport.

You seriously have to be kidding me.

 

[Cloxxki]

If Americans just fail to impress at this event, it explains that they weren't interesting to be tested. Or just still not finished when the true Awesome Ones were trying to squeeze some pee out.

I don't follow triathlon much, but thought it was kindof a big deal in the land of big.

 

[keen_but_slow]

You seriously have to be kidding me.

Well if it is rife, it isn't working, they aren't beating me by much and I'm not a super athlete.

If you take the MPRO telemetry off the SRM site and their running pace at the 70.3 distance where fuel is less of an issue, they are well within the W/kg you'd expect for 80 VO2_max guys. Look at the times the "uber-bikers" do up Palomar; pretty ordinary.

Also, If they were ALL doping (I'll freely admit that some do), would so many get chicked? Wellington is normally putting in something close to the fastest run split.

 

[Orvieto]

I've often wondered why there are so few high profile doping cases at Ironman triathlons. It could very well be that the testing is ineffective, but there me other aspects that deter doping.
There are no teams in Ironman triathlon, so individual athletes or coaches would have to organize it themselves. Only a very few could afford to mount an effective program and then only after they've already started to win.
Ironman, for all its grueling effort is a one day event. You've got weeks to recover. In cycling, it's always seemed that the greatest doping benefit is over the three week tours, where it supplements natural recovery.
Not to say that it IS clean/cleaner/cleanish, but these aspects do differentiate it from pro cycling.

 

[Anonymous]

Americans don't cheat.

 

[Cloxxki]

Americans don't cheat.

They change the rules after the fact. Or before the fact, if it's a biggy.

 

[Nederick]

Why would they risk doping for the big day? Is there much out of competition testing for pro triathletes? I would have thought the biggest gains would be in doping during training to help them handle the huge volumes of work they have to get through, and recover from.

 

[Nick777]

There are some doping problems in triathlon, even in the age groups. I wouldn't call it 'rife', but it exists. I am not sure that anyone in the position of authority would admit it.

When I was working in the industry, some of the stories that went around were concerning. One triathlete was supposedly found with drugs in Perth before the world champs way back in 1997, and it somehow never went further. There were rumours that he had also failed two drug tests (the source for both of these 'rumours' was one of his sponsors). He later (years later) tested positive for EPO.

Tim Don missed THREE out of competition drugs tests in 18 months.

A multiple Hawaii winner was suspected of being dirty back in the 90's. The day after drug testing was announced for the IM world champs one year, he left Hawaii saying that his 'head wasn't right'. Other athletes marvelled at his new found ability to hold a peak...

Olympic & world champions have gone positive for EPO down the track. Same with Ironman winners.

Not sure if the problem could ever be as big/widespread as in cycling, because the support structures don't seem to be in place to facilitate systematic doping. I could be wrong though. If a triathlon 'team' bobs up & starts winning races everywhere, it would raise my eyebrows - or at least one of them

 

[indurain666]

There are some doping problems in triathlon, even in the age groups. I wouldn't call it 'rife', but it exists. I am not sure that anyone in the position of authority would admit it.

When I was working in the industry, some of the stories that went around were concerning. One triathlete was supposedly found with drugs in Perth before the world champs way back in 1997, and it somehow never went further. There were rumours that he had also failed two drug tests (the source for both of these 'rumours' was one of his sponsors). He later (years later) tested positive for EPO.

Tim Don missed THREE out of competition drugs tests in 18 months.

A multiple Hawaii winner was suspected of being dirty back in the 90's. The day after drug testing was announced for the IM world champs one year, he left Hawaii saying that his 'head wasn't right'. Other athletes marvelled at his new found ability to hold a peak...

Olympic & world champions have gone positive for EPO down the track. Same with Ironman winners.

Not sure if the problem could ever be as big/widespread as in cycling, because the support structures don't seem to be in place to facilitate systematic doping. I could be wrong though. If a triathlon 'team' bobs up & starts winning races everywhere, it would raise my eyebrows - or at least one of them

Luc Van Lierde anyone??

The only reason cycling's doping issues went public was because idiot Festina guy got caught in the border with drugs. Before that doping was a well kept secret in cycling. Same is in Triathlon.

 

[Kennf1]

I've often wondered why there are so few high profile doping cases at Ironman triathlons. It could very well be that the testing is ineffective, but there me other aspects that deter doping.
There are no teams in Ironman triathlon, so individual athletes or coaches would have to organize it themselves. Only a very few could afford to mount an effective program and then only after they've already started to win.
Ironman, for all its grueling effort is a one day event. You've got weeks to recover. In cycling, it's always seemed that the greatest doping benefit is over the three week tours, where it supplements natural recovery.
Not to say that it IS clean/cleaner/cleanish, but these aspects do differentiate it from pro cycling.

Although the event is one day, the training volume leading up to that one day is huge, and recovery doping would be very useful. Big volume, long distance training can take a toll on testosterone levels. As for the event itself, I would think a transfusion two days before the event would be highly advantageous.
Not saying this is necessarily going on, but the incentives are definitely there (as with any endurance aerobic sport).

 

[smaryka]

It's in Dutch, a response to a link to a newspaper article.
losseveter.nl/blog/bas-diederen-aan-infuus-na-droomdebuut/

Bas Diederen zei:
@iedereen Te gek dat ik uiteindelijk na al die jaren ook eens voor een lange keten met reacties weet te zorgen op losseveter.

Mooi dat direct de link met doping wordt gelegd bij het woord infuus.
Het ging hier om water met zoutoplossing. Sterker nog, ik durf te stellen dat het infuus niet nodig was geweest als er GEEN dopingcontrole geweest was!!

So let me get this straight, Bas Diederen (in the same breath) is complaining about doping control while he admits to having an IV? Which is against WADA rules?

Shut up already.

(In my view, the minute an athlete gets an IV after an Ironman, they should have to forfeit all prizes, all rankings and all Kona slots. I mean it's either against WADA or it's not. If you finish a race and need an IV then you've cheated like anyone else who drafts/dopes/shortcuts the course).

 

[JA.Tri]

... Bas Diederen (in the same breath) is complaining about doping control while he admits to having an IV? Which is against WADA rules?

Shut up already.

(In my view, the minute an athlete gets an IV after an Ironman, they should have to forfeit all prizes, all rankings and all Kona slots. I mean it's either against WADA or it's not. If you finish a race and need an IV then you've cheated like anyone else who drafts/dopes/shortcuts the course).

My understanding is: The World Anti-Doping Agency bans blood transfusions or any intravenous infusions, except in a medical emergency.

Therefore "needing" an IV post race (as determined by race/hospital medicos) would not be "cheating".

Refer: http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/S...ical_info_IV_infusions_v.2.2_March2010_EN.pdf

 

[Boeing]

Drafting is not a crime!

 

[smaryka]

Sorry, but that's BS. None of those athletes receiving IVs have TUEs or any interest in getting one. It's become commonplace, even a badge of honour to have "earned" IVs in an Ironman because you pushed yourself to the limit so much.

If you knew you'd have to provide a real, actual TUE by real doctors who would have to stand up against the WADA board (and you'd have to pay for it the way anyone else getting a TUE needs to) then maybe you'd think twice about killing yourself out there to get that Kona slot. If you can't race without requiring an IV at the end, you are cheating.

 

[smaryka]

From the WADA code:

IV infusion in sport is commonly linked with rehydration after exhaustive effort, and this situation is arguably the major cause of debate for sports physicians. It must be clearly stated however that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild rehydration is neither
clinically indicated nor substantiated by the TUE process. There is a well-
established body of scientific opinion to confirm that oral rehydration is
the preferred therapeutic choice, deemed by some authorities as being
even more effective than the parenteral option. (Ref:
3,4,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17)

Pretty sure in Bas Diederen's case (considering he sat in a room for 2 hours without dying before he received his IVs) that he (like most Ironman folks in the med tent) would not qualify for a TUE as above. Therefore he's a cheat to claim 1st AG finisher.

 

[JA.Tri]

While I have not raced an Ironman, I have participated. Also I cannot speak to the need or otherwise for any particular athlete to receive an IV.

I agree that:

. some participants regard an "IV" as a badge of honour and
. IVs should be administered according to reasonable medical management*.

Some points:

hydration/nutrition is difficult to manage under the conditions generally present at the Kona Ironman...that's for a participant, let alone a "racer"

many participants push themselves to the limit just so they can finish an Ironman.

As a result: if a participant struggled to finish the Ironman and had required* an IV after finishing, I would fully accept that as reasonable and within the rules and more to the point within the spirit of the sport.

 

[Cloxxki]

Let's see this seperate from having competed a 9-hour race. An athlete (or civilian) walks into a med center, all dehydrated and looking out of this world. The medics freak out, slam him on a table and start administering an IV which they feel he needs.
That a race preceeded, should that matter? People kill themselves (unintentionally) on finish straits, but if others happen to survive and would like to be fixed up, that's wrong? If the person happens to be an athlete, not medical aid will be offered? It's not like chemo or something, when tomorrow will be fine as well. Dehydration is lethal RIGHT TODAY when neglected.

It's happened to me that I only got to feel REALLY bad when a race was long over, and I've not done anything stupid like an IronMan in hot weather.

I think a discussion about this is good. Most of us will agree that anti-doping testing, while useless at high profiles races, is still necessary. Room for improvement seems to still be found at times.

 

[smaryka]

I'm fine with IVs being administered as medically needed. I have no doubt that some Ironman finishers need them.

However, there are lots of finishers that don't. I've done 3 IMs including an AG win and Kona and I never needed one. Part of what makes me a good racer is knowing my limits, knowing how to hydrate and fuel, knowing what the hell I'm doing out there so I don't collapse on the verge of death at the finish line.

Some races with water temps that are over the wetsuits-allowed limit have decided to allow competitors to use wetsuits for safety reasons (if they feel they want/need them). But those competitors are out of running for AG placings and Kona slots. I think the same thing could be done for IVs. If you get an IV in the tent afterwards, you sign away your right to a Kona slot or AG placing. You get your finisher's shirt, medal, etc. but nothing else. If you're one of the opportunist IV users, then you can decide for yourself if you need one or if you'd rather go to Kona. If you're one of those who collapses on the finish line, well you will have no concept of whether you need one or now, one will be just given to you and that's that. Still no Kona slot though IMO.

Because from a doping/WADA point of view, it IS cheating. No TUE would be given out for 95% of the cases that go into the tent for IVs, including Diederen's. So he cheated as far as the WADA rules go.

Yes I'm a hardass about this. But the rule is there, so it should be treated as such.