is Cuddles the greatest rider of our generation?

[Jeepers_ie]

Ok.. Im going to mark Cadel on five main criteria..

Grand Tours. He hasnt won one, while Contador, Menchov, Valverde, Sastre, Basso, Nibali, Vinoukourov, Di Luca etc all have.

Monuments. He hasnt won one, while the likes of Cavendish, Vinoukourov, Gilbert, Schleck, Ballan, Pozzato, Di Luca have, and the likes of Cancellara, Boonen, Freire, Cunego, Devolder, Valverde have won multiples.

Semi Classics. A sole win in Fleche Wallone

Surely Fleche-Wallone is a full classic? It's not a monument, obviously, but it's one of the Spring Classics I would say.

 

[Archibald]

How do you know? Speak to people who rode against him in the MTB era.

cool. who did you speak to?

 

[Anonymous]

I think considering all the doubts over wether doping makes riders not elligable to be the best rider of their generation, the question needs rewording.

Is Cuddles the best, australian, world champion, whom his fans claim is clean, of his generation?

 

[buckwheat]

To those who say Cuddles is clean- his manager is Tony Rominger. Not exactly encouraging is it?

Well, when rominger says "get with the program," he can't be accused of spouting empty platitudes.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

look. i like cadel. i think he's great.

but am i deluded enough to think he is clean? meh.

his first three pro teams were saeco, mapei, and deutsche telekom. this observation alone should alarm any reasonable person.

add in all of the other red flags--many of which have been mentioned here--and it becomes pretty difficult to pretend that he is a clean rider.

i'm jes sayin'.

 

[laziali]

Surely Fleche-Wallone is a full classic? It's not a monument, obviously, but it's one of the Spring Classics I would say.

+1. Het Volk (new name, I know) is a semi-classic, but not Flèche

 

[Roninho]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Cuddles transfuses (and most probably other things as well). Only someone who doesn't know anything about cycling would suggest otherwise.

Gilbert

Philippe! Don't break the omerta!

 

[delbified]

He has a big jawline and chin for a reason.

obviously anyone with distinctive features is doping. the guy in the office partition next to me - juiced. i always wondered how he was so productive

 

[flicker]

I would say his is the handsomeist rider and best Kareoke singer of our generation. Best riders would be a toss up between Alexander Vinokurov, Iban Mayo and Tyler Hamilton.

 

[Winterfold]

Sure he gets some pi55 taken but since the Worlds even here he is well thought of.

My opinion is he is very good at everything but not as good as the top 2 or 3 guys in particular types of race.

Outstanding rider with huuuuge guts but too adaptable or not specialised enough depending on how you look at it.

If he had been born 20 years ago palmares would have been much better reflection of his all round abilities

 

[Christian]

There are quite a few riders who are better than Cadel, but I think people will be more likely to remember Cadel than Menchov, Sastre, Levi or Klöden for example. At least I think I will.

I can see myself in fifteen years going "What's the name of that Russian guy who won the Giro that one time, when he fell in the ITT ... wasn't he on Rabobank or something?"

 

[pmcg76]

There are quite a few riders who are better than Cadel, but I think people will be more likely to remember Cadel than Menchov, Sastre, Levi or Klöden for example. At least I think I will.

I can see myself in fifteen years going "What's the name of that Russian guy who won the Giro that one time, when he fell in the ITT ... wasn't he on Rabobank or something?"

And in the non-anglophone countries, they will be asking who was that Aussie guy that won the worlds. Jeez time to see the big picture guys.

How many people here remember or even know who Claude Criquelion is, anybody reckon he was one of the greats, no!! then compare his palmares with Evans. Whom was better?

 

[Escarabajo]

...

I can see myself in fifteen years going "What's the name of that Russian guy who won the Giro that one time, when he fell in the ITT ... wasn't he on Rabobank or something?"

So you will remember the team but not the name. Do you remember the teams of some of the greats in the past? Don't need to answer.

I like Cadel, but I have the feeling that he will be forgotten IMHO. Especially since he is not spectacular at all.

 

[dolophonic]

Yes but he is an Aussie so he must be great no?

 

[royalpig180]

i know some people have quoted Boonen, Cancellara and other classics riders, but for me at least, Grand Tour contention puts you on a higher plane. Menchov has more results but i think on reflection, most people would concede that Menchov has never been quite as dangerous as Cuddles in the Tour - he just sort of appears on the podium in Paris and everyone goes "who's that guy? was he racing here - didn't he win the Giro?"

Disagree... it's a parallel plane

No seriously, you can't truly compare a GT rider like Menchov (and Cuddles to a lesser extent) and classics riders/sprinters like Cancellara, Boonen, and Cav. They just don't try to win the same things for the most part...

 

[delbified]

Disagree... it's a parallel plane

actually a plane can be both parallel and on a different level

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Cancellara, hands down. GT riders tend to be wimps...

 

[Anonymous]

Philippe! Don't break the omerta!

I didn't mean to imply that Gilbert is clean. I am fairly certain they all dope, so on that playing field, Gilbert is a better rider.

 

[Christian]

And in the non-anglophone countries, they will be asking who was that Aussie guy that won the worlds. Jeez time to see the big picture guys.

1) I don't come from an anglophone country
2) I don't live in an anglophone country

So you will remember the team but not the name. Do you remember the teams of some of the greats in the past? Don't need to answer.

Rabobank was there before Menchov and hopefully will still be there when he is long gone.

Geez, broke my own golden rule - never say ANYTHING about Evans or Armstrong on this forum. Also, I admire your ability to see "the big picture" (I humbly admit being far to narrow-minded), as well as your long-term memory (I must make a point of playing more Sudoku).

Get over yourselves.

 

[pmcg76]

1) I don't come from an anglophone country
2) I don't live in an anglophone country

Where do you get most of your cycling info from?

What is your favourite cycling website?

In English speaking media Evans will always receive more coverage that someone like Menchov, why, because he is an Englsih speaker. Right now if there was an English speaking rider with 3 GTs to his name like Menchov, he would be receiving way more attention than Cadel. That is why people will remember Evans over Menchov.

I personally dont have anything against Cadel, I dont hate on him ever but lets have some semblence of realism as well.

As I said compare Evans to Criquelion

World Champion. Yes

Classics: Cadel: Fleche Wallone Criquelion: 2xFleche Wallone, Tour of Flanders

Stage races: Evans: Settimana Lombarda Criquelion: Midi Libere, Tour of Romandy

Vuelta podium finish: Evans: Yes Criquelion: Yes

Top 10 in Giro: Evans: Yes Criquelion: Yes

Tour: This is were Evans has the edge, Criquelion had 5 Top 10 finishes but no podiums or never wore yellow whilst Evans has two podiums and worn yellow.

Overall their records are similar, Evans has a better Tour record but Criquelion has a better Classics record. I dont think many people would list Criquelion amongst the Top 50 ever but we are talking about Evans being the best rider of his generation. Yeah right.

 

[luckyboy]

People aren't gonna get remembered unless they win races. Fleche Wallonne, Romandie & WC isn't enough tbh. Menchov has won 3 GTs and Pais Vasco. I know who I'm gonna be remembering.

 

[Scatto]

Mtb

Evans did well in MTB before road racing.

 

[Christian]

People aren't gonna get remembered unless they win races. Fleche Wallonne, Romandie & WC isn't enough tbh. Menchov has won 3 GTs and Pais Vasco. I know who I'm gonna be remembering.

I don't know though, I think it also has a lot to do with charisma and such. For example I think everyone will remember Jens Voigt, even though he has been a domestique most of his career (except for Critérium). Cancellara is both charismatic and successful. Richard Virenque has never won a GT (except if you count 1997) or a classic (except for Paris-Tours) and is still hugely popular. Menchov is successful but other than that ... kind of boring IMO. No offense to Menchov though! It should be all about the palmarès and not about the interviews ... but I think in reality that's not the case.

 

[Elagabalus]

And in the non-anglophone countries, they will be asking who was that Aussie guy that won the worlds. Jeez time to see the big picture guys.

How many people here remember or even know who Claude Criquelion is, anybody reckon he was one of the greats, no!! then compare his palmares with Evans. Whom was better?

I think this is completely unfair to most anglophone countries. For they too (with the exception of the merry ole' land of Oz) will be asking themselves "who was that Aussie guy that won the worlds" in years hence! Actually it'll probably be more like, "Who was that dude from Australia that won the worlds...you know...the guy with the funky proportions and the strange jerky mannerisms...and that high squeaky voice? You remember! What was that guys name again?"

As to the second question. Of course, I remember Claude Criquelion but Steve Bauer was so much better!
Heh! I kid because I love!

 

[Christian]

"Who was that dude from Australia that won the worlds...you know...the guy with the funky proportions and the strange jerky mannerisms...and that high squeaky voice? You remember! What was that guys name again?"

"Didn't someone like ... step on his dog or something?"