Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

[Bavarianrider]

I'm afraid you might be on to something. Even at the Tour of the Basque Country, with hot conditions and headwind, they beat the record of the Arrate climb. Usually we're fed Tour de France watt numbers, but even if those keep decreasing (and that's not all that clear; we'll see this year), what about the other races? Sometimes I fear the strictness of the TdF antidoping tests can't be afforded by all races, so that ironically the Tour might be one of the cleanest races out there.

Certainly we have to keep an eye on this development as the season moves on. The Giro will give us the next indications

 

[superconfex]

Certainly we have to keep an eye on this development as the season moves on. The Giro will give us the next indications

I don't buy into this randon "how come X is faster than Y when all were doped back then"
Can anyone name a competitive sport which the athletes aren’t fitter, faster, stronger than 10 years …..no 5 years ago

 

[Lanark]

I don't buy into this randon "how come X is faster than Y when all were doped back then"
Can anyone name a competitive sport which the athletes aren’t fitter, faster, stronger than 10 years …..no 5 years ago

Like discus throwing (WR 1986), shot put (WR 1990), javelin (1996) or hammer throw (WR 1986). Doping can be more effective in some sports, and if you look at the effectiveness of EPO in cycling in the 90's, it sure seems unlikely any clean athlete would get close to that.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I don't buy into this randon "how come X is faster than Y when all were doped back then"
Can anyone name a competitive sport which the athletes aren’t fitter, faster, stronger than 10 years …..no 5 years ago

Of cours ethat would be to easy. But given the fact that we know they were juiced to the limits it it's very doubtfull that today they can ride just as fast or even faster while being clean.
By the way (from a german forum)

Saint Nicolas Gilbert 3:01 (second fastest ever, 2008 2:58)
Faucons Schleck 3.50 (second fastest ever, 2009 3:49)

 

[Escarabajo]

I'm afraid you might be on to something. Even at the Tour of the Basque Country, with hot conditions and headwind, they beat the record of the Arrate climb. Usually we're fed Tour de France watt numbers, but even if those keep decreasing (and that's not all that clear; we'll see this year), what about the other races? Sometimes I fear the strictness of the TdF antidoping tests can't be afforded by all races, so that ironically the Tour might be one of the cleanest races out there.

I have always had these suspicions. But then the Tour is too important for the GC contenders so I don't think it applies to them. Maybe we have the most polarized race of the season in that respect.

 

[Hotbrakes]

Of course he is, as most likely are all classics and GT contenders. You would be wiser however to save your anger for the ones who are responsible for this state of affairs, the team bosses, the doctors like Ferrari and Fuentes, and the UCI who try to see to it that no one is caught unless they want them caught.

Your right and I wrote that after a few beers. I don't like the
same rider winning all the races. That's why I didn't like LA. I like
seeing riders suffer and not look like they just went on a training
ride.

 

[mherm79]

I think the bros were hurt at the latter part of the race, and just didn't want to feel any more of Phil's wrath towards the end.

+1 don't think they wanted to finish off the podium either.

Gilbert seems to have developed patience which lets him maximise his attacks, unlike previous seasons (i.e. the Worlds) when would attack too early

 

[The Hitch]

Honestly, it seems that in general there's a knew rocket fuel in the peleton. The average speed of all major races was very high this season. Mostly close to the all time records. Gilbert shattered the record on the Mur and i am sure he and the Schlecks set records at Faucon and St. Nicolas.
Cancellara rode the Mur just as fast as last year. Last year he was blowing everyone, this year he didn't dominate nearly the same way. The general speed of the peleton went up.

Very interesting stuff.

I don't buy into this randon "how come X is faster than Y when all were doped back then"
Can anyone name a competitive sport which the athletes aren’t fitter, faster, stronger than 10 years …..no 5 years ago

You answered your own question with the fact that its posted in the clinic

A lot of sports, especially the big money ones where it is in the interest of everyone that no doping stories come out, are also rife with doping. OP proves this.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been more discussion about Omega Pharma-Lotto in general. Especially the guy on the left

I'm sure someone's going to tell me that was always going to be a great classics rider and how he was the first name on their Fantasy Cycling team this season. If so, fair play to you

 

[hrotha]

Good point. The importance of a good team for the classics can't be understated, especially as this season we've seen the contrast between Cancellara's Leopard woes and Gilbert's strong Lotto team. Remember the blue train? The domestiques are rarely tested (as demonstrated by Contador's steak story), but they're key in modern cycling. Didn't Gilbert say his teammates had done altitude training for the Ardennes?

 

[Scatto]

I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been more discussion about Omega Pharma-Lotto in general. Especially the guy on the left

I'm sure someone's going to tell me that was always going to be a great classics rider and how he was the first name on their Fantasy Cycling team this season. If so, fair play to you

If you take away the proven dopers, he was 7th in the 2007 Flèche Wallon, almost his first classic as a pro. Back then, it was expected he would shine, but he was a little misfortunate. He also rode one year with fdesjeux.

He's Gilbert's roommate. Don't know if that's pro or contra.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waalse_Pijl_2007

 

[roundabout]

He even beat Gilbert then.

 

[Frosty]

OPL have been good but they had to work hard in the early to mid stages of LBL - no-one else was going to help - so by the time it got to 85km to go they were all struggling. Only Gilbert and vanendert finished, ok so a lot of people drop out of these races but only 2 finishing is a bit extreme. They may have looked good in FW but then there was about 100 left in the peloton towards the end as it had been a relatively slow race. In Amstel Gold, Gilbert was doing the chasing of Schleck himself. Given OPL's chances of big wins this year i would imagine the whole team was looking to peak for these races rather than say Paris-Nice or T-A.

Vanendert is a bit of a new name to me. He is a youngish rider though and hardly had any results last year - injury? Maybe in the years before that he was a lower domestique and so was never going to get good results in these sorts of races?

 

[L'arriviste]

J'aimerais croire qu'il ne se dope pas - Interview with Dr de Mondenard, author of Dictionnaire du dopage in today's Le Soir.

LS: Peut-on gagner quatre courses de suite &#224]

LS: Is it possible to win four races in a row at this level while riding clean?

PdM: I'd like to believe that it's possible without doping, but the experience of the last fifty years makes me doubtful ... It's enough to look at the example of Chavanel, very strong in the Ronde then way off the pace in LBL two weeks later. It'd be interesting to know if Gilbert hasn't been on a drip to recuperate ... A rider - and not only Gilbert: I've got similar doubts about the Schlecks - has no way of proving that he isn't doping and the UCI can't prove he is, as long as some substances are untraceable.

LS: For sure, PG has been pretty harsh about doping. He's denounced it publicly in an ad for the Francophone Community.

PdM: So what? Bernard Hinault reckoned dopers should be imprisoned but he like others refused to be controlled after a post-Tour criterium ... I'm not convinced by this sort of talk. Nor those who say they'll give up their blood samples... knowing full well the substances they've taken are untraceable.

 

[L'arriviste]

... continued ...

LS: Un outil comme le passeport biologique n'a-t-il pas permis de s&#233]

LS: Hasn't a tool like the bio-passport enabled the sport to separate the wheat from the chaff? The Italians have nearly disappeared from the podiums they used to all but own...

PdM: That's not down to the bio-passport. It's the police raids that have done that. Doctors and riders alike are now afraid of getting caught in the act. What's changed with the "passport" is that the dopers have gotten smarter. How many of them have been pinched thanks to the "passport" when compared to those bagged by police raids like Puerto? Two or three, versus dozens of them. It's laughable.

Heavily edited for relevance and interest.

Verdict? The good doctor reckons Philbert's a doper and Chavanel's clean.

 

[Astana1]

I think he is clean. But of course I could be wrong and it wouldn't shock me if he was busted.

He's been getting stronger for years. His tactical sense is really good, he knows what to do and when. He's usually successful and when he isn't he doesn't win.

I think he is probably peaking right now. This dominance won't carry on for years and years.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

So the "good doctor" reckons a clean rider can only be in good form for less than 11 days (since Gilbert winning races over an 11 day period is highly suspicious), in which he can be competitive with the best of the best (like Chavanel was in RVV) and should be "way off the pace" before and after that short period of time?

I wonder why the women are generally more consistent than the men? Are they on a better program?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If you take away the proven dopers, he was 7th in the 2007 Flèche Wallon, almost his first classic as a pro. Back then, it was expected he would shine, but he was a little misfortunate. He also rode one year with fdesjeux.

He's Gilbert's roommate. Don't know if that's pro or contra.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waalse_Pijl_2007

Plus he trains regularly with Thomas Dekker. That's bound to make you strong

 

[Ferminal]

So the "good doctor" reckons a clean rider can only be in good form for less than 11 days (since Gilbert winning races over an 11 day period is highly suspicious), in which he can be competitive with the best of the best (like Chavanel was in RVV) and should be "way off the pace" before and after that short period of time?

That's hardly anything new for Gilbert, look at him last year where he was on top from the start of the Vuelta to Lombardy.

 

[Escarabajo]

... continued ...




Heavily edited for relevance and interest.

Verdict? The good doctor reckons Philbert's a doper and Chavanel's clean.

L'arriviste, your posts about the interview with Dr. de Mondenard are GOLD.

Thanks.

 

[c&cfan]

That's hardly anything new for Gilbert, look at him last year where he was on top from the start of the Vuelta to Lombardy.

a classic (especially monuments) isn't a regular tourism race. after you complete one, at this level, you should lose something. (even canc said that) however gilbert looked very fresh at liege. still, if he isn't using something that the others aren't, that's ok.

i just hope he doesn't become a GC contender. otherwise this has armstrong all over it. (good rider until 27 and then..we know)

 

[pcrispey]

Phillipe is against doping already many years .... and has been always verry strong in the one day races...

Check out this video that was made as a Anti-Doping promotion campain in Belgium.

http://www.motionmakers.be/video/anti-doping?tid=2

 

[Benotti69]

Phillipe is against doping already many years .... and has been always verry strong in the one day races...

Check out this video that was made as a Anti-Doping promotion campain in Belgium.

http://www.motionmakers.be/video/anti-doping?tid=2

yeah but to quote

So what? Bernard Hinault reckoned dopers should be imprisoned but he like others refused to be controlled after a post-Tour criterium ... I'm not convinced by this sort of talk. Nor those who say they'll give up their blood samples... knowing full well the substances they've taken are untraceable.

the last rider to do what Gilbert did was Rebellin, a doper, which does not make Gilbert a doper but to win 3 very hard races over very difficult courses is either something very special or something very dodgy.

I find that he won in a manner that he has left a big question mark over his performances, none of them being very close finishes, but Gilbert having time to look around and raise his hands before the line.

I am sure we will come to know the truth in due course and it would be fantastic if it were without enhancement.

 

[c&cfan]

yeah but to quote



the last rider to do what Gilbert did was Rebellin, a doper, which does not make Gilbert a doper but to win 3 very hard races over very difficult courses is either something very special or something very dodgy.

I find that he won in a manner that he has left a big question mark over his performances, none of them being very close finishes, but Gilbert having time to look around and raise his hands before the line.

I am sure we will come to know the truth in due course and it would be fantastic if it were without enhancement.

how? when?

 

[Benotti69]

how? when?

when they discover a riders medicine cabinet contains a certain substance or when a doping Doctor gets busted, the history of the sport is littered with riders, Doctors and DS being busted at some stage in their career. Merckx was caught too

Gilberts talks anti-doping but he has been linked in this thread to people who are not white.

To me if Gilbert joined Astana, which is basically Vino's team, would send out the wrong message to a clean sport and anyone professing to be in favour of a clean sport.