Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

[will10]

Story in NRC today says multiple (ex) Lotto riders say that Gilbert often rode on false TUE for cortisones, provided by team docter Jan Mathieu (who prides himself for the victories of Gilbert). The (anonymous) riders say they used cortisones as well at Lotto.

Thomas Dekker is a likely source, because he already admitted he used cortisones at Lotto on 2008 with a false TUE.

This was quite an enlightening tweet from Michael Hutchinson who rode the World ITT for Ireland last season

Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
Worth saying again that the dope control guys at the worlds last year were amazed I didn't have any therapeutic use exemptions. (TUEs)

Tanni Grey-Thompson ‏@Tanni_GT
@Doctor_Hutch is that because so many cyclists have them ??
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16 Feb Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
@Tanni_GT That would be what you'd suspect. It backs up the rumours of large numbers of riders holding multiple TUEs.

Jack Thurston ‏@thebikeshow
@Doctor_Hutch Should all TUEs be public? Would transparency help ? Or is it an unjustified invasion of privacy?
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16 Feb Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
@thebikeshow imagine TUEs are covered by medical confidentiality. Suspect that even knowing the total number in the peloton wd be striking.

 

[hrotha]

Gilbert's reaction is absolutely hilarious.

He says he is 'surpressed'. 'I have practiced my profession serious and in the best possible way. Both before and after I raced with Lotto I have won big races, most of them in a similar (what is said to be 'typical' for me) way. I hope that says enough'

Translation done by me, but in the original Dutch is just as vague and ambigious.

That barely falls under the non-denial denial category.

 

[Lanark]

Source? I want to read it in Dutch too.

You can read it here.

This was quite an enlightening tweet from Michael Hutchinson who rode the World ITT for Ireland last season

Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
Worth saying again that the dope control guys at the worlds last year were amazed I didn't have any therapeutic use exemptions. (TUEs)

Tanni Grey-Thompson ‏@Tanni_GT
@Doctor_Hutch is that because so many cyclists have them ??
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
16 Feb Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
@Tanni_GT That would be what you'd suspect. It backs up the rumours of large numbers of riders holding multiple TUEs.

Jack Thurston ‏@thebikeshow
@Doctor_Hutch Should all TUEs be public? Would transparency help ? Or is it an unjustified invasion of privacy?
Expand
16 Feb Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch
@thebikeshow imagine TUEs are covered by medical confidentiality. Suspect that even knowing the total number in the peloton wd be striking.

The article also quotes a rider from a Belgian team saying that on the day of the Ronde van Vlaanderen the entire team had a TUE for cortisones.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://wielrennen.startpagina.nl/pr...e-cortisonen--->-tekst-uit-krant#msg-16434637

Google translate is quite good for Dutch.

Cortisone ---> Osteoporosis

 

[hidache]

Google translate is quite good for Dutch.

Indeed, type "mannen zijn mannen en mannen horen in de keuken" and translate from dutch to english.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Indeed, type "mannen zijn mannen en mannen horen in de keuken" and translate from dutch to english.

No way

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Indeed, type "mannen zijn mannen en mannen horen in de keuken" and translate from dutch to english.

Didnt lie, did I?

[of to the kitchen and doing the dishes]

 

[Panda Claws]

Well Gilbert's comment is actually pretty normal if you were to look at it from a non-biased by hundreds of doping cases point of view.

Although, I am aware that he could very well be doping.

 

[Netserk]

Well Gilbert's comment is actually pretty normal if you were to look at it from a non-biased by hundreds of doping cases point of view.

Although, I am aware that he could very well be doping.

I read it as :"I have doped my entire career"

 

[Roderick]

I read it as :"I have doped my entire career"

But if you were doping through your entire career and you said something like that, than you must really be one hell of an arrogant ****.

Pretty sure he didn't meant to say that. And I'm not sure if the interview was done in dutch, because if it was in fact done in dutch he probably couldn't put any subtlety in his answers since he's no native speaker.

 

[hrotha]

He certainly tried real hard not to say explicitly that he had never doped. Someone accused him. He didn't deny the accusations - instead, he rambled about irrelevant stuff.

Of course, an explicit denial wouldn't have proven anything either way, but non-denial denials are usually very telling.

 

[Roderick]

But a non-denial denial has to be the stupidest thing to do since everybody really can read between the lines. It's the closest thing to admitting in stead of admitting itself

 

[peace in middle east]

I read it as :"I have doped my entire career"

waiting for CN to run this story.
they've picked up most of the stories NRC and NOS have come out with lately.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

waiting for CN to run this story.
they've picked up most of the stories NRC and NOS have come out with lately.

Lets hope dimspace translates it for them.

The earlier 'surpressed' shoud read as 'surprised'.

But, I do not think cortisone alone makes one dominate a season like Gilbert in 2011.

 

[Panda Claws]

Yes, but you have to get into a mindset of the rider.

Let's assume he is clean then he knows that simply saying "no" will not change the mind of people who thinks he is doping.

So he basically says: "Think about it yourself and gives an argument why he is not doping."

 

[hrotha]

Yes, but you have to get into a mindset of the rider.

Let's assume he is clean then he knows that simply saying "no" will not change the mind of people who thinks he is doping.

So he basically says: "Think about it yourself and gives an argument why he is not doping."

That would make him the first one ever to follow that line of thought.

 

[Miburo]

Yes, but you have to get into a mindset of the rider.

Let's assume he is clean then he knows that simply saying "no" will not change the mind of people who thinks he is doping.

So he basically says: "Think about it yourself and gives an argument why he is not doping."

Wouldn't he say it that when he dopes? Try to make up arguments to justify it instead of saying no

If he didn't dope then why come up with arguments like that? It doesn't say anything at all, look at ricco in '10 if he would use that. "Oh it's clear that i don't have '08 level so i don't dope anymore"

 

[Miburo]

Lets hope dimspace translates it for them.

The earlier 'surpressed' shoud read as 'surprised'.

But, I do not think cortisone alone makes one dominate a season like Gilbert in 2011.

Talent and hard work or more dope? What is it according to you? Both?

 

[nevada]

Talent and hard work or more dope? What is it according to you? Both?

All the above.

 

[hrotha]

I think if you're going to fake TUE to abuse cortisone, that shows the kind of mentality of a rider for whom the only impediment to use blood doping would be logistics, not morals.

 

[Panda Claws]

Also in the article, since this year cyclists are not permitted to race within 8 days of taking cortisones.

 

[Panda Claws]

Wouldn't he say it that when he dopes? Try to make up arguments to justify it instead of saying no

If he didn't dope then why come up with arguments like that? It doesn't say anything at all, look at ricco in '10 if he would use that. "Oh it's clear that i don't have '08 level so i don't dope anymore"

Simply saying "No, I don't dope" will never convince anyone whether the rider in question is doping or not.

'Arguments' like what Gilber said may not convince anyone either but it is an attempt and one that could be made regardless whether the rider is doping or not.

2 things to add

1. I agree with you in that it's more likey for a rider who is doping to follow this line of thought, than a clean one.

2. It could be that riders have said such things thousands of times before, but I never followed Doping all that much. I tend to ignore it whenever I can.

 

[peace in middle east]

IF TD is the source, that's quite interesting as I don't recall an active rider ever calling out another active rider. More cracks in the omerta, the peloton slowly decomposing?

Anyway, if Dekker's the source, +1 to him (and Garmin, I guess).

 

[hrotha]

Simply saying "No, I don't dope" will never convince anyone whether the rider in question is doping or not.

'Arguments' like what Gilber said may not convince anyone either but it is an attempt and one that could be made regardless whether the rider is doping or not.

2 things to add

1. I agree with you in that it's more likey for a rider who is doping to follow this line of thought, than a clean one.

2. It could be that riders have said such things thousands of times before, but I never followed Doping all that much. I tend to ignore it whenever I can.

Imagine your partner asks "Honey, did you cheat on me?"

You can say you didn't. Your partner might still be suspicious if they have good reason to doubt you.

You can say it's up to them to decide, using their reasoning skills. Congratulations: you're single.

 

[Panda Claws]

Imagine your partner asks "Honey, did you cheat on me?"

You can say you didn't. Your partner might still be suspicious if they have good reason to doubt you.

You can say it's up to them to decide, using their reasoning skills. Congratulations: you're single.

Point taken.

Depends on the argument given though and Gilbert looks pretty good at first glance (probably not to you guys but here in the clinic it's customary to be extremly sceptic about all riders).

Like this:

"Did you cheat on me, Adam?"
"How do you even imagine me doing that, Eve?"

To try and keep up the metaphor.

But at best it's still just a second possibility which would be much more believeable should a 'no, I don't dope' have been added.