Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

[Dr. Maserati]

+1.

We should be discussing these two sentences more instead of the other verbal fight that is going on.

Agreed:

No need to, I think you just did!

What a beautiful tie-in of the two names. It was through Billen that Viane hooked up with Gilbert, according to this article.

OK, I would consider that to be a problem in terms of Gilbert's credibility.
It does not look good. Although I still stand by my opinion that his racing style, on its own, is yet to be suspicious to me.

To anyone's knowledge, has Kimmage chimed-in at all on the Billen-Viane-Gilbert soiree?

Agree with the first part - it does put a question mark on his career.

As for Kimmage - I am not sure if he has commented on Gilbert recently - but I have always been uncomfortable with people proclaiming someones anti-doping stance based on comments they make years ago (in Gilberts case 2005!) particularly at the start of their career.
Why people dope is a complex issue and having a stance can be eroded over time as the harsh realities of life takes away peoples innocent and simplistic view.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yep, the only thing that is elitist is the demand to know the underlying motivation for posting things that might be interpreted as putting the sacred cow in a bad light.

It's also quite ironic that "Dr Nick" and Granville are ones doing the hijacking.

Ok - sorry for this, but what does the highlighted actually mean?

Hijack the thread? Well as I believe it was started to bait others I would much rather the discussion centered on PG and bring any new info to light.
I think the times up any climbs prove little (way too many variables) but the association with Freddy V, which you highlighted is (IMO) a red flag.

 

[The Hitch]

This is really easy - you posted in the FW thread that you were opening a thread in the Clinic (ie to highlight that fact). In your OP here you give the motivation for starting a thread here and when I commented on that you confirmed it.

I'm not baiting you - I am pointing out what actually happened. It is what it is.
Any apology I would make would not be for you, but for the other posters here who have had been following this thread - so with that you can claim whatever you wish, it is up to others to interpret your posts.
I had a view and your subsequent posts have confirmed it - out.

How have my subsequent posts confirmed that the post was a bait. Because I addressed the accusations against me?

Once again, its back to the if Gilbert ever says the word EPO, he is guilty of it logic.

And who is it that I am supposed to be baiting again?

 

[The Hitch]

I suppose whats left to say for the moment is this.

You are in a weak position because you know very little about the subjects being discussed.

You know very little about my state of mind, you know nothing about my motivations, and most importantly you know nothing about the people you allege I was trying to bait. You also dont know why I might want to bait these people in the first place.

Ockhams razor. You choose to look at some conspiracy about how I am trying to bait some people (what I am to achieve by doing this is beyond me).

But the far simpler answer is that Phillipe Gilbert is one of the best riders in the world in a sport notorious for ped abuse. The simpler answer is that in a world where Michal Kwiatkowski is accused of doping for coming 3rd in a tiny races tt, and Cancellara for dominating the cobbles, the time has come for the guy doing the same in the Ardennes to have his own clinic thread.

Did you at no point not stop for a second to think about that.

 

[Ferminal]

I'm going to step in here.

*step*

Please keep it on Gilbert (rather than the motives for the thread existing) from now on. If you do not think the thread is justified then allow it to sink a few pages.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I'm going to step in here.

*step*

Please keep it on Gilbert (rather than the motives for the thread existing) from now on. If you do not think the thread is justified then allow it to sink a few pages.

Whew! Thanks Ferminal...

I had completely lost track of who was a troll, who wasn't a troll, what the bait was, who was baited, and who in the h*ll was accusing who of what...

All I see is The Hitch taking an awfully big pounding for being a bit of a smart @ss in starting this thread.

Gilbert? Entirely awesome! Doped? WTFK?

 

[IzzyStradlin]

I know it is only a slight difference - but the clip of the last KM shows that Gilbert did not quite ride as fast as Ferrari suggested:

2011 Fleche Wallone 2km (06:09) 1.09 to 1km (7:18) 2:44 to finish (10:02) - total last 2km 3:53.

68kg seems low.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

maybe already posted before in this thread, apologies. Ferrari's take on Gilbert's Fleche Wallonne - Mur de Huy performance:

http://bit.ly/dNbyvn

(from 53x12.com)

68kg seems low.

 

[Polyarmour]

Here is an idea for a permanently running thread topic.

No way is (insert latest race winner) clean

After all if anyone wins they must be dopers right?

If you have absolutely no evidence of doping then why slander riders with endless pages of public speculation and innuendo?

Imagine if you'd spent 15 years training to reach the top of your game and the moment you do, you're accused of doping. It's a low act.

 

[DarkWarrior]

68kg seems low.

I had just Googled his weight prior to reading this page because I was curious as to what his power and power to weight ratio on the Huy would be. I also have a hard time believing he's only 68 kg.

 

[bicing]

 

[Bavarianrider]

Guys are you seriously still debating wether riders are clean or not? Whre have you been the last 30 years? Of course Gilbert is not clean just as every other rider who can win big races is not clean. Just like 99% of the peleton are not clean. Some are more juiced then others, that's the only thing which can be debated. But juiced, they are all.

 

[The Hitch]

Now this, ladies and gentlemen, this right here is what a REAL bait looks like.

 

[la.margna]

Guys are you seriously still debating wether riders are clean or not? Whre have you been the last 30 years? Of course Gilbert is not clean just as every other rider who can win big races is not clean. Just like 99% of the peleton are not clean. Some are more juiced then others, that's the only thing which can be debated. But juiced, they are all.

Couldn't agree more. Incredible that some people still don't realise it and don't just do the simple math. 1+1 as Ulle said.



Interesting also, that Gilbert is considered anti-doping, but trains with convicted doper Vino and is in discussions to join Astana. What a joke.

“I’ve known Philippe for many years now and we train together quite a lot,” Vino said.

 

[hfer07]

If Gilbert wins tomorrow- what more can be added to this thread that hasn't been done already?

 

[blackcat]

If Gilbert wins tomorrow- what more can be added to this thread that hasn't been done already?

a positive sample?

 

[Peyote]

Interesting also, that Gilbert is considered anti-doping, but trains with convicted doper Vino and is in discussions to join Astana. What a joke.

They both live in Monaco. Like many riders. Boonen, Hushovd, Gilbert, Vino,.. They all train together,think that's normal. No?

And yes Astana want's him, just like 7 other teams..

 

[woodie]

I think it's sad that anytime someone does well people accuse them of doping.

I also think it's sad that our amazing sport is full of drug cheats and most of these accusations are probably true

 

[luckyboy]

Harmon just said that "looking at the past 10 years of LBL - its very sad to see who has won, with the exception of Bettini" and that Gilbert winning would "bring in a new era"..

Heh, it does seem to have winners who tend to get caught - Vino, Piti, Di Luca, Rebellin, Hamilton, Camenzind, VDB + Bettini and Bartoli who were only implicated by others.

 

[The Hitch]

Harmon just said that "looking at the past 10 years of LBL - its very sad to see who has won, with the exception of Bettini" and that Gilbert winning would "bring in a new era"..

Heh, it does seem to have winners who tend to get caught - Vino, Piti, Di Luca, Rebellin, Hamilton, Camenzind, VDB + Bettini and Bartoli who were only implicated by others.

THanks for this.

I do wonder if Harmonn said similar things about Vino, Piti, Di Luca, Rebellin, Hamilton, Camenzind, VDB and Bartoli. Because the same logic which makes Gilbert an anti doping cyclist bringing a new era into the sport, could have been used on any of these cyclists when they won LBL.

 

[Not Riding Enough]

Well he has another LBL.

 

[luckyboy]

Well he has another LBL.

His first LBL

 

[Not Riding Enough]

His first LBL

OK another Ardennes classic then (in the same year).

 

[roundabout]

Like the letour ticker said, he is now equal with Hinault in major 1-day wins.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

THanks for this.

I do wonder if Harmonn said similar things about Vino, Piti, Di Luca, Rebellin, Hamilton, Camenzind, VDB and Bartoli. Because the same logic which makes Gilbert an anti doping cyclist bringing a new era into the sport, could have been used on any of these cyclists when they won LBL.

Probably not about Vino in 2010.