Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

[JMBeaushrimp]

Lets see:

1. Firstly he made sure (unlike a number of others) that he jumped on the break on the Côte de Roche aux Faucons. Then he let Andy kindly tow him up to Frank: Good tactic by him, bad by Andy.
2. On the Saint-Nicholas after an ineffective attempt to gap him by Andy, he counter attacked and dropped Andy who had to smack it to even get back on. In doing so he sent a clear message that they were wasting their time even trying to ride away from him.
3. On the final climb you will see that Phil pretty much spends the whole climb out of the seat ready to jump on any move that Frank may have made. This effectively shut Frank down though personally I could not believe that he did not at least try to put some pressure on Phil.

Tactically and psychologically the Schleck's were beaten well before the finish.

Yeah he showed his strength at the end but as usual you attempt to reduce everything down to its lowest common denominator.

So, what you're saying is that '...he followed the leaders and beat them in a sprint.'.

Gotcha. What's a denominator?

 

[danjo007]

he followed them yes. he was clearly in control, and the shlecks knew it.

obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the shlecks should have been 1-2ing him constantly for the last 10kms.

did greg.A bring cuddles old play book to the race too btw?

 

[Yeahright]

So, what you're saying is that '...he followed the leaders and beat them in a sprint.'.

Gotcha. What's a denominator?

I'll defer to Python's previous post on this one.

Check your dictionary

 

[python]

he followed them yes. he was clearly in control, and the shlecks knew it.

obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the shlecks should have been 1-2ing him constantly for the last 10kms.

did greg.A bring cuddles old play book to the race too btw?

that"s the key - he was not only the strongest but he used his strength properly.
- he timed joining with schlecks only after frank went and after he looked back and saw others on the limit (an improvement on his mistake of 2 years ago getting cooked after responding too early)
- he cooperated with schleck to keep the gap to chasers
- he timed well an attack to split the brothers
- he considered his knowledge of the head wind on the finishing straightaway

all these decisions are the evidence of his tactical acumen. of course it's easy not to panic when you know you are the strongest.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

that"s the key - he was not only the strongest but he used his strength properly.
- he timed joining with schlecks only after frank went and after he looked back and saw others on the limit (an improvement on his mistake of 2 years ago getting cooked after responding too early)
- he cooperated with schleck to keep the gap to chasers
- he timed well an attack to split the brothers
- he considered his knowledge of the head wind on the finishing straightaway

all these decisions are the evidence of his tactical acumen. of course it's easy not to panic when you know you are the strongest.

No argument there. Gilbert has been riding absolutely brilliantly, and has his team behind him. Au naturel, or not, I love watching him race. I'm really going to miss the early season when it's done...

 

[ultimobici]

So, what you're saying is that '...he followed the leaders and beat them in a sprint.'.

Gotcha. What's a denominator?

To say that he just sat on them and out sprinted them is disingenuous to say the least.

Gilbert made the pace with the Brothers Schleck, put in an attack that gapped AS forcing him to waste energy chasing back and then delivered the coup de grace in the sprint.

In my book that's a well deserved and, more to the point, earned win.

One thing I was glad to see was that the Schlecks were not as up their own ar$es as Cancellara when interviewed afterwards.

 

[roundabout]

Because Gilbert himself is doping? Your point is not clear here if they have to dope to stay on wheel of a clean rider.

My point is that for a clean rider to emulate what Gilbert has already done he would have to be a once in a generation talent. Just because he supposedly wins clean it doesn't make it any easier for other clean riders (who perhaps don't have his ability) to do so. Apart from Mr Sanctimony there's almost the same cast of characters in 1-day classics as 2-3 years ago. And yet he is the only "clean" rider with a substantial improvement in results. As i said, there's nothing uplifting or positive about his message for any clean riders once it is put in context. It's simply a piece of shameless self-promotion to defend his increasingly unbelievable performances.

 

[Hotbrakes]

Doper full stop. Has anyone won those 3 races in the same year and have they been caught doping? Did he look as fresh as a daisy after the LBL win? The stupid f@%k is a doper.

 

[hrotha]

Doper full stop. Has anyone won those 3 races in the same year and have they been caught doping? Did he look as fresh as a daisy after the LBL win? The stupid f@%k is a doper.

Although personally I believe he probably dopes, your position is irrational and not very useful. There's no possible discussion if the starting axiom is that those who win are dopers. If we accept that the sport can get cleaner, then logically there must be a point when clean riders can do what Gilbert has done.

We can discuss specific evidence relating to Gilbert (shady soigneurs and managers, unbelievable power outputs, what have you), but there's no point discussing if winning is enough evidence.

 

[patricknd]

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[Scatto]

Is this French for "I pity those talentless f*ckers that have to dope to stay on my back wheel"?

Because I was too busy throwing up to catch the exact quote...

In the video titled "My victory is without PED's", he actually says: "YOUR victory is without PED's".

What a hero he would be if he were clean ...

 

[Scatto]

http://www.siteducyclisme.net/nieuwsfiche.php?nieuwsid=5699

4 years ago, claims to be the good guy. He would've had a good life never doping, staying with Marc Madiot, so what then is the pressure for FG to dope? Next to none, in my view.

There's only one scenario for him doping: he wasn't clean when winning Het Volk, Marc Madiot told him to hit the road and he put in on a higher level with Lotto. It is not very likely, is it?

 

[python]

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[Anonymous]

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[Christian]

he let Andy kindly tow him up to Frank

When exactly was this?!

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Cool it with the personal comments or face a suspension.

Susan

 

[sublimit]

of course i disagree. your understanding of the race is primitive.

You are right. I think it was fairly clever riding by Gilbert In the end.
He's reading the races very well at the moment whereas sometimes he goes too early and gets dragged back.

 

[Escarabajo]

Although personally I believe he probably dopes, your position is irrational and not very useful. There's no possible discussion if the starting axiom is that those who win are dopers. If we accept that the sport can get cleaner, then logically there must be a point when clean riders can do what Gilbert has done.

We can discuss specific evidence relating to Gilbert (shady soigneurs and managers, unbelievable power outputs, what have you), but there's no point discussing if winning is enough evidence.

+1.

I agree with this statement.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

To say that he just sat on them and out sprinted them is disingenuous to say the least.

Gilbert made the pace with the Brothers Schleck, put in an attack that gapped AS forcing him to waste energy chasing back and then delivered the coup de grace in the sprint.

In my book that's a well deserved and, more to the point, earned win.

One thing I was glad to see was that the Schlecks were not as up their own ar$es as Cancellara when interviewed afterwards.

Easy, buddy. That was a Hitch quote I was employing to be a more comprehensive smart-*ss.

I absolutely agree with everything pro-Gilbert in analyzing LBL. He's a very crafty racer, maintains position perfectly, uses his team efficiently, and is stronger than ten bears!

My contention on the day was the quality of the BS (brothers schleck) in any effort to sting Gilbert in the last 10km. Sadly lacking...

 

[bridgeman]

My contention on the day was the quality of the BS (brothers schleck) in any effort to sting Gilbert in the last 10km. Sadly lacking...

I agree. I kept wait for them to start with a string of attacks in the last 3k.

I think Andy's explanation after the race reveals why. "We tried to attack, but he came back with strong answers", or something to that effect.

I think the bros were hurt at the latter part of the race, and just didn't want to feel any more of Phil's wrath towards the end.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Doper full stop. Has anyone won those 3 races in the same year and have they been caught doping? Did he look as fresh as a daisy after the LBL win? The stupid f@%k is a doper.

Of course he is, as most likely are all classics and GT contenders. You would be wiser however to save your anger for the ones who are responsible for this state of affairs, the team bosses, the doctors like Ferrari and Fuentes, and the UCI who try to see to it that no one is caught unless they want them caught.

 

[sniper]

off topic

+1.

I agree with this statement.

it is good to have some quality spanish posters around the house like hrotha and escarabajo, with a critical and sensible approach to doping issues.
Brings hope to skeptics like me that the situation in Spain might actually change for the better one day.

(sorry, off topic)

 

[frenchfry]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but the past winners list for LBL is a veritable dopers hall of fame.

The sad thing about systematic doping is that no great performance can avoid the doping question. Must admit that following in the footsteps of Rebellin isn't too reassuring.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Honestly, it seems that in general there's a knew rocket fuel in the peleton. The average speed of all major races was very high this season. Mostly close to the all time records. Gilbert shattered the record on the Mur and i am sure he and the Schlecks set records at Faucon and St. Nicolas.
Cancellara rode the Mur just as fast as last year. Last year he was blowing everyone, this year he didn't dominate nearly the same way. The general speed of the peleton went up.

 

[hrotha]

Honestly, it seems that in general there's a knew rocket fuel in the peleton. The average speed of all major races was very high this season. Mostly close to the all time records. Gilbert shattered the record on the Mur and i am sure he and the Schlecks set records at Faucon and St. Nicolas.
Cancellara rode the Mur just as fast as last year. Last year he was blowing everyone, this year he didn't dominate nearly the same way. The general speed of the peleton went up.

I'm afraid you might be on to something. Even at the Tour of the Basque Country, with hot conditions and headwind, they beat the record of the Arrate climb. Usually we're fed Tour de France watt numbers, but even if those keep decreasing (and that's not all that clear; we'll see this year), what about the other races? Sometimes I fear the strictness of the TdF antidoping tests can't be afforded by all races, so that ironically the Tour might be one of the cleanest races out there.