Is Simon Gerrans the best ever Australian roadie?

[Cookster15]

You do recall that the reason Cadel got labelled unfairly with the wheelsucker tag from 2009-2011 was that he lost several GCs he could have won due to doing it in the period up to 2009? It's not like you didn't support Cuddles back then.

If you want to argue that wheelsucking is not an admirable way to win a bike race, I will agree with you. If you want to argue that Cadel Evans has been unfairly labelled a wheelsucker at any point since he won the rainbow jersey, I will agree with you. If you want to argue that Simon Gerrans will never be a better cyclist than Cadel Evans, I will agree with you.

But if you want to say that you have seen wheelsucking as producing unworthy victors, yet have been so upset about the GCs that Evans lost in his Lotto days, I will scratch my head and admit confusion.

I rememeber that period before his rainbow jersey too, and the "consensus" on here was also very unfair on Cadel:

2007 TDF: Could barely hold Contador and Rassmusens wheels in the mountains until he popped on PdB. Not Evans fault, why? - discuss elsewhere. How can you not wheelsuck when you can barely hold wheels in the Pyrenees. Heroic effort by Evans to almost get back to AC on the Aubisque to minimise his losses.

2008 TDF: Crashed on stage 9 and had to carry those injuries through the Tour - not Evan's fault. An even more heroic effort to carry those injuries for half the Tour against the relative strengths of Saxo Vs Lotto.

2009 Vuelta: His team screwed up: Not Evans fault.

Sure he gained self confidence after his WC victory but you can't blame Evans loss of several GTs prior to then on his preference to wheel suck.

As far as Gerrans is concerned, Jelantik's comment sums it up well.

 

[TANK91]

Gerrnans better than Evans haha. Mods please lock the thread. A Tour win without being WC is better than 2 monuments. Gerrans is one of the worst riders thts why you can tell people are unhappy. Ive never liked the guy i dont no why. He no's he as been so lucky people forget he wheeelsucked the whole descent of the Poggio he is so bland as a rider.

 

[Pentacycle]

lombardia next.

Dear god, please no. I don't think I can take it.

How about the Ponferrada WC?

 

[blackcat]

good thread good call blackcat

 

[Samson777]

Good call for Green Edge to get Gerrans. He have made sure this Australian world tour project have not been a failure.. When you look at his abilities, he really strike you as a guy who made the most of it. 2 monuments, stage win in all the big 3 and most important; Overall win in Tour of Denmark.

Also it could be noted, that he's a guy, who brought the marginal gains with him when leaving SKY.

 

[Afrank]

good thread good call blackcat

Meh, not really. Tour win still trumps any single result Gerrans has.

 

[blackcat]

@Samson777
hehehhee, good call on the Sky marginal gains.

that's BS too, but if you meant "marginal gains" qua marginal gains, yeah, but never needed to go to Sky to bring that. From the small Norwegian team, that I think produced boassan hagen, is it nord bianchi? did they also have the guy who won MSR this year?

 

[blackcat]

Meh, not really. Tour win still trumps any single result Gerrans has.

just call me nostradamus

 

[Yingge]

Meh, not really. Tour win still trumps any single result Gerrans has.

Agreed, Gerrans cant stand on the same level as Evans.

And I say that O'Grady's Cobble trophy beats the two monuments that Gerrans now has too.

 

[Marcus135]

Agreed, Gerrans cant stand on the same level as Evans.

And I say that O'Grady's Cobble trophy beats the two monuments that Gerrans now has too.

pffffft your crazy if you think a roubaix win is worth more than a win at both lbl and Milan san remo.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Gerrans is by no means the greatest ever Australian road racer. He is however the greatest ever overachiever amongst Australian road racers. And that is worthy of real respect.

Gerrans has never in his life gone into an important race as the top favourite. And rightly not. But look at his palmares. This is a sport where we mostly admire the exploits of freaks of nature (or freaks of pharmacology), but there is something to be said for the clever guy, who isn't the fastest or the strongest, but who pulls out big wins anyway.

(See also Rui Costa)

 

[42x16ss]

Gerrans is by no means the greatest ever Australian road racer. He is however the greatest ever overachiever amongst Australian road racers. And that is worthy of real respect.

Gerrans has never in his life gone into an important race as the top favourite. And rightly not. But look at his palmares. This is a sport where we mostly admire the exploits of freaks of nature (or freaks of pharmacology), but there is something to be said for the clever guy, who isn't the fastest or the strongest, but who pulls out big wins anyway.

(See also Rui Costa)

He's an interesting case. The thing with Gerrans is that if somebody told you yesterday that he'd win Liege, in a very neutralised, passive race most people would be mildly surprised at most. Same with his MSR win - if you were told beforehand he'd win from a small group attacking late, it wouldn't be a complete shock either.

He's never a genuine favourite (unless you count the TDU ) but he's someone that can take advantage of an unusual situation. That hardly fits the description of a truly great rider.

 

[blackcat]

Gerrans is by no means the greatest ever Australian road racer. He is however the greatest ever overachiever amongst Australian road racers. And that is worthy of real respect.

Gerrans has never in his life gone into an important race as the top favourite. And rightly not. But look at his palmares. This is a sport where we mostly admire the exploits of freaks of nature (or freaks of pharmacology), but there is something to be said for the clever guy, who isn't the fastest or the strongest, but who pulls out big wins anyway.

(See also Rui Costa)

goog post ZL.

But to others, cycling is all about the top step on the podium, not rankings, not seconds, not thirds, and many make an argument pure racing are/is one day racing, not three week GTs.

Gerro sniffs out a win like no other, and he always steps on the top step!

Gerro FTW

 

[greenedge]

Great week for Australian cycling with Gerro winning L-B-L
and Cadel winning the Giro del Trentino (I suppose you
could also add Mick being cleared as well).

That's bike racing. Gerrans was obviously underestimated. I couldn't count the number of times I never saw my competition until the finish line when it was too late. I learnt from that. He may be a seasoned pro but it seems Valverde still has much to learn - starting with not underestimating Simon Gerrans.

Valverde may have felt confident that he could beat Gerrans in a sprint- 2012- wilunga and P-N- even though Gerrans did outsprint him at AGR/ has improved his sprint from when Valverde last squared off against him in sprints.

 

[greenedge]

Good call for Green Edge to get Gerrans. He have made sure this Australian world tour project have not been a failure..

True to an extent

He no's he as been so lucky people forget he wheeelsucked the whole descent of the Poggio he is so bland as a rider.

He could barely hold on, just look at how frantically he peddled/ the gap that Cancellara gained around every corner on him.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Here we go, two monuments now:

 

[Angliru]

Valverde may have felt confident that he could beat Gerrans in a sprint- 2012- wilunga and P-N- even though Gerrans did outsprint him at AGR/ has improved his sprint from when Valverde last squared off against him in sprints.

I think based on how the sprint played out, Valverde was well aware of the potency of Gerrans sprint, that's why IMO he took Gerrans wheel instead of continuing his sprint on with only Arredondo in front of him. He's faced Gerrans enough to not underestimate him. Gerrans had that little bit more in the tank to beat his rivals to the line. Additionally Valverde and everyone else knew there were a number of riders that could take their wheels and potentially come around them in the sprint. Gerrans appeared to be the only one with the legs and confidence to take it off the front and hold it.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

pffffft your crazy if you think a roubaix win is worth more than a win at both lbl and Milan san remo.

On paper 2 monuments does look better than 1. Still, O' Grady's win was actually great because it was based on a huge solo effort. That stands out more than 2 dull wheelsucking-wins IMO.

 

[blackcat]

I think based on how the sprint played out, Valverde was well aware of the potency of Gerrans sprint, that's why IMO he took Gerrans wheel instead of continuing his sprint on with only Arredondo in front of him. He's faced Gerrans enough to not underestimate him. Gerrans had that little bit more in the tank to beat his rivals to the line. Additionally Valverde and everyone else knew there were a number of riders that could take their wheels and potentially come around them in the sprint. Gerrans appeared to be the only one with the legs and confidence to take it off the front and hold it.

that sprint, was never about coming out of a wheel into a headwind. it was a slow sprint, from slow momentum, but no real jump. The aero coefficient and value of being in the slipstream negated to immaterial.

rupert guinness agrees and has been reading
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycl...ats-of-australian-cycling-20140428-zr0q5.html

 

[heinkel12]

That only shows that Rupert Guinness doesn't have a clue either. Gerrans is rightly in the pantheon of greats now but Evans is the best by a fair margin followed by Anderson. Gerrans doesn't have the ability of O'Grady or McEwan and Russell Mockridge was probably better than all of them but got killed before getting back to Europe.

 

[arthurvandelay]

Impressed with simon

I for one am very impressed with this win. LBL has always been the kind of race that wheelsuckers/sprinters/cobble guys don't excel at cuz it is way too long. If he made it to the finale then he is a class act. Winners of MSR tend not to do well at LBL and vice versa. Kudos to him on the win !

 

[blackcat]

That only shows that Rupert Guinness doesn't have a clue either. Gerrans is rightly in the pantheon of greats now but Evans is the best by a fair margin followed by Anderson. Gerrans doesn't have the ability of O'Grady or McEwan and Russell Mockridge was probably better than all of them but got killed before getting back to Europe.

like writing an academic paper at college in a 101 class, one needs to define the parameters first.

if you determine the measure of greatness to be, wins, wins in classics, and other wins, then Gerro is very much in the pantheon.

sprint wins, are not the cycling WINs by this definition.
can I add a caveat here, I am not diluting sprint victories by McEwen or Cooke, I just think, all the wins Cavendish compiles in his career in bunch kicks, does not make one win, of a selective classic.

And yes, in this distorted perspective, my definition, a GT win, is less than a win in Liege. Tho a win in Worlds, can rival Liege. Liege still superior imo.

(I know Cav won worlds in a field sprint, albeit decimated field.)

Flanders, and Roubaix, just slightly below Liege. Lombardia with MSR, below them.

GT stage wins, a fair few rungs below a GT win.

So that was how I raised the prospect, with those premise(s), that Gerro is the best ever Australia roadie.

And he may not win his classics with panache. But he wins. Yes, there would be extra points for panache, but only after riders are put on equivalent pedestal.

 

[blackcat]

Here we go, two monuments now:

that smile, is cos Gerry will buy him a big car AND house when he gets back to Melbourne. GRyan, very generous with the sportsmen who have brought glory to his sports. VERY.

ofcourse, one could reference the parable from the old testament, but that would be a little bit of poor form.

 

[happychappy]

Evans is a ****ing legend. Not only the best ever Australian roadie, but one of the best cyclists of all time.
When he decides to leave pro road cycling I hope he doesn't quit entirely, would love to see him ride some endurance MTB events or something.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Gerrans' palmares will never match Evans' due to the simple fact that Evans's big victories being the TDF, WC, Fleche amongst other victories have been won because he was the strongest rider who rode hard to the finish. Gerrans' have been as a result of sitting on the wheel and taking advantage of the work of others.