is team sky the worst team tactically in cycling?

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rick james said:
blackmamba said:
Yes ofcourse they are thats something everyone knows (everyone besides the brits:D) (shocker!)they also said porte was winning the giro and that sky has dominating every GT last 5 years (even tho they have only won 2 GT's ever :D )so their not really something to take serious but a good laugh nonetheless :p :p hahha

who said that?
I recall Froome stating in so many words that he had plans to win a string of Tours. Brailsford said that their plan was/is to dominate in all areas of professional road cycling.
 
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Angliru said:
BigMac said:
I don't know what you're after Big Doopie.
Hopefully for all of our sakes a ban.
I wouldnt hold my breath. After reporting this users seemingly endless amounts of doping innuendos, baiting and trolling, over a long period of time, i have come to the conclusion that some accounts simply doesnt gets banned. Sure, the posts disappear but was is the point if the user simply can repeat the same procedure in the next coming of days and/or hours?

No. We have to settle with the idea that some users are above the rules.
 
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SkyTears said:
there are lots of tears on this forum since 5 years ago, when Sky started to school the traditional winners.
By winning 2 GT's out of 15? Contador has won 3 or 5 depending how you see it in that time. Nibali has won 3 in that time. Yet Sky are apparently schooling traditional winners, which Contador and Nibali fall under as they are technically gifted entertaining cyclists? 2 GT's for a whole team versus 8 or 6 GT's for two individuals...
 
Vino's Mum said:
the sceptic said:
Froome riding like a headless chicken on the front for no reason.
Froome's so crazy strong, he can do what he wants. He runs out of domestiques, he doms for himself - his win at Col du Béal in last year's Dauphiné perhaps being the best example of this, after which Contador said he'd never seen anyone that strong. Or, in different circumstances, his win in 2012's Tour after setting the pace to Planche Des Belles Filles.

Froome often rides at his own pace as that's the quickest way he (and therefore, anyone else) is getting from A-B uphill, and if that means he's on the front for a while, no biggie. For one thing, his riding today stopped Bert or Piti or anyone else who's potentially a GC threat from jumping clear and gaining even a handful of seconds, and watching it live, I got the impression he maybe thought he could win the stage. Once that wasn't happening, he knocked it off.

Yeah, tactically, all this maybe doesn't look great, but then again, see my first sentence above...
This about sums it up. Froome rides as if he knows that he's much stronger than his rivals. Where the typical gc contender picks and chooses their spots to attempt to gain time for fear of burning valuable matches, Froome attacks on flats, cobbles, etc... without fear of blowing up. He puts his team on the front setting a torrid tempo and he, seemingly as a means to toy with his rivals, falls off the back, his team unconcerned of his whereabouts, only to have him work his way back up and ultimately passing his competitors. Often times it's like a cat toying with a mouse. It's unprecedented and disturbing to witness.
 
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Ramon Koran said:
People underestimate sky tactically, they have arguably the finest tacticien in the tour (Thomas), roche is also a great tacticien, Nicolas portal knows his stuff and Froome knows when to attack and does so perfectly.
Roche? I like the guy but if he were such a great tactician I would think that he would have a few more wins on his ledger.
 
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dacooley said:
The Hitch said:
How is Froome being in yellow proof that SKy are good tactically? Its what we have always said, they just have the guy(s) who push out the most watts and end up winning despite tactics.

The echelons stage is not what got Froome the yellow jersey. Froome would have the yellow jersey regardless. He got it from smashing everyone bar Purito on the single gc stage of the race. Which is what many/ most of us always said would happen as we picked Froome to win the Tour despite his teams poor tactics, because he is by far the strongest in the race.

And one of the reasons Sky's poor tactics, for all those asking the "why do you pick on Sky" question, get brought up is that they claim to be the most intelligent and most tactically astute team in the peloton, dismissing other teams as amateur and full of idiots. Yet its the same team that should have easily got 1-2 in the 2011 Vuelta and somehow managed to not win it.
sorry, but you are relentless to sky. obviously negatively biased opinion. yeah, sky were wrong with picking up the correct rider for leadership during the race but wiggins had 4th place in the tour behind his shoulders, the dawg was a completely uncertain quantity and could hugely crack on any stage. so the decision had its logic. thats cycling
The decision didnt have the tiniest bit of logic. You have two riders. One is cracking while one could crack in the future (maybe worth mentioning that it was the penultimate mountain stage). Now you have the choice between:
1.) The domestique follows the attacker. As soon as the domestique catches the attacker the attacker will stop working because the domestique will wheel suck so that the attacker would neither win the stage nor the gc.
2.) You let the domestique set a low pace for the leader so the leader doesn't fade. However you know that this pace isn't as high as the pace of the attacker so the leader as well as the domestique will loose time and you don't even know if the time the leader looses is less than the time he would have lost if the domestique had followed the attacker (because of 1.)
 
Angliru said:
Vino's Mum said:
the sceptic said:
Froome riding like a headless chicken on the front for no reason.
Froome's so crazy strong, he can do what he wants. He runs out of domestiques, he doms for himself - his win at Col du Béal in last year's Dauphiné perhaps being the best example of this, after which Contador said he'd never seen anyone that strong. Or, in different circumstances, his win in 2012's Tour after setting the pace to Planche Des Belles Filles.

Froome often rides at his own pace as that's the quickest way he (and therefore, anyone else) is getting from A-B uphill, and if that means he's on the front for a while, no biggie. For one thing, his riding today stopped Bert or Piti or anyone else who's potentially a GC threat from jumping clear and gaining even a handful of seconds, and watching it live, I got the impression he maybe thought he could win the stage. Once that wasn't happening, he knocked it off.

Yeah, tactically, all this maybe doesn't look great, but then again, see my first sentence above...
This about sums it up. Froome rides as if he knows that he's much stronger than his rivals. Where the typical gc contender picks and chooses their spots to attempt to gain time for fear of burning valuable matches, Froome attacks on flats, cobbles, etc... without fear of blowing up. He puts his team on the front setting a torrid tempo and he, seemingly as a means to toy with his rivals, falls off the back, his team unconcerned of his whereabouts, only to have him work his way back up and ultimately passing his competitors. Often times it's like a cat toying with a mouse. It's unprecedented and disturbing to witness.
And do you know which is the only way how a dominant rider can loose a tour? Bad tactics (besides stuff like crashes which are completely unpredictable)
 
Jul 29, 2012
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HelloDolly said:
He's in a new situation though, head and shoulders above this year's Sky team. No lieutenant this time who's almost an equal. Might want to ask AC how to do it, he knows.
So Contador is not head and shoulders above his team?? You may have a point ...just like in 2013 when Kreuziger was sacrificed for Contador and was better at the time.
SKY is such a horrible team but TCS with a litany of past dopers and a meglomanic owner who is homophobic , sexist and racist are great ?

The hypocrisy and ineffectual arguments are ridiculous and show haters for what they are
Contador won the vuelta 2012 not being the strongest in the race.

Yea Contador is way smarter than froome, what has froome done that can be compared to contador's genius on the bike?
 
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I'm confused now. Are Sky/Froome boring because they ride to a script/power metre and only attack in the final km of climbs, or are they arrogant/disturbing for attacking too much - even on the flat and on the cobbles?
 
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They have won two TdFs and are in the driver's seat for a third...obviously they are no completely tactically inept... Not to say they haven't done some head scratching things in the past (more specifically the classics) but in stage races, they follow a pretty successful formula. Made even more successful by the fact they have the strongest rider.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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TI-Raleigh said:
They have won two TdFs and are in the driver's seat for a third...obviously they are no completely tactically inept... Not to say they haven't done some head scratching things in the past (more specifically the classics) but in stage races, they follow a pretty successful formula. Made even more successful by the fact they have the strongest rider.
In 2012 they had the 2 best riders but still managed to bring up out a hugh discussion into why froome is dropping the leader. Great tactics right? Just amazing no?

In 2013 froome was by far the strongest but yet he was isolated in one stage very early and in another one he got screwed over by echelons.

And that's disregarding the fact that froome is completely clueless into how to really race, if he doesn't produce the highest watts he'll never win a race. Can't win something using his brain
 
Jul 21, 2012
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TI-Raleigh said:
They have won two TdFs and are in the driver's seat for a third...obviously they are no completely tactically inept... Not to say they haven't done some head scratching things in the past (more specifically the classics) but in stage races, they follow a pretty successful formula. Made even more successful by the fact they have the strongest rider.
easy to win when you have 50 watts more than your opponents. This is the only way Froome can win again. If Contador is on the same level he will win this tour.
 
Angliru said:
Vino's Mum said:
the sceptic said:
Froome riding like a headless chicken on the front for no reason.
Froome's so crazy strong, he can do what he wants. He runs out of domestiques, he doms for himself - his win at Col du Béal in last year's Dauphiné perhaps being the best example of this, after which Contador said he'd never seen anyone that strong. Or, in different circumstances, his win in 2012's Tour after setting the pace to Planche Des Belles Filles.

Froome often rides at his own pace as that's the quickest way he (and therefore, anyone else) is getting from A-B uphill, and if that means he's on the front for a while, no biggie. For one thing, his riding today stopped Bert or Piti or anyone else who's potentially a GC threat from jumping clear and gaining even a handful of seconds, and watching it live, I got the impression he maybe thought he could win the stage. Once that wasn't happening, he knocked it off.

Yeah, tactically, all this maybe doesn't look great, but then again, see my first sentence above...
This about sums it up. Froome rides as if he knows that he's much stronger than his rivals. Where the typical gc contender picks and chooses their spots to attempt to gain time for fear of burning valuable matches, Froome attacks on flats, cobbles, etc... without fear of blowing up. He puts his team on the front setting a torrid tempo and he, seemingly as a means to toy with his rivals, falls off the back, his team unconcerned of his whereabouts, only to have him work his way back up and ultimately passing his competitors. Often times it's like a cat toying with a mouse. It's unprecedented and disturbing to witness.
If anything, it's you who don't understand are dynamics.

Froome does the smart thing, trying to gain time wherever he can. That's the opposite of what you are trying to make it to be. If you know you are stronger than everybody else, just sit back, and hammer them all in the mountains and the time trials. Much like Armstrong and Contador in 2009. How about some objectivity? Or is that too much to ask from a AC fan?

And the reason why he puts his team at the front should be obvious to anyone. Haven't we seen times and times again how riders are caught out because they are sitting in the back? It happens in every damn GT. And the price is well worth paying since burning 1 or 2 of your domestiques matters not, while a crash or a 2 minutes deficit may be a real game changer.

And to fall off the back and the come back in nothing specific to Froome. Sastre also did this successfully a number of times. It's called knowing your limits and maximizing your performance thereafter. Quite the opposite to be "much stronger" than your rivals. Just smarter.

Just look at the Vuelta where Purito, AC and piti overcooked each other by attacking over and over again, as if they had no limits…

Unfortunately for them, they had and Froome caught them and dropped them despite being weaker. Why? Because he rode smarter. It's a no brainer since energy consumption increases exponentially with your power output.
 
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the sceptic said:
TI-Raleigh said:
They have won two TdFs and are in the driver's seat for a third...obviously they are no completely tactically inept... Not to say they haven't done some head scratching things in the past (more specifically the classics) but in stage races, they follow a pretty successful formula. Made even more successful by the fact they have the strongest rider.
easy to win when you have 50 watts more than your opponents. This is the only way Froome can win again. If Contador is on the same level he will win this tour.
And if Cancellara was on the same level he would school Contador time and time again.

Now, do you hear how stupid that sounds?
 
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Miburo said:
TI-Raleigh said:
They have won two TdFs and are in the driver's seat for a third...obviously they are no completely tactically inept... Not to say they haven't done some head scratching things in the past (more specifically the classics) but in stage races, they follow a pretty successful formula. Made even more successful by the fact they have the strongest rider.
In 2012 they had the 2 best riders but still managed to bring up out a hugh discussion into why froome is dropping the leader. Great tactics right? Just amazing no?

In 2013 froome was by far the strongest but yet he was isolated in one stage very early and in another one he got screwed over by echelons.

And that's disregarding the fact that froome is completely clueless into how to really race, if he doesn't produce the highest watts he'll never win a race. Can't win something using his brain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY7WPlTHnDM
 
Jul 29, 2012
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What's your point walkman? What was so tactically amazing in that?

And i love it that many think froome has this. If he can't ride away from the 3 others of the big 4 he'll never win. I mean yea it's likely he will but if not he'll get destroyed.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Walkman said:
the sceptic said:
he would? since when is Cancellara some kind of tactical mastermind?
Since when did Contador became one?

And Cancellara can use the most simple tactic. Just drop AC on every downhill and that's it. Win.
So Contador isn't a tactical genius compared to Froome? Wanna go there?
 
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Miburo said:
What's your point walkman? What was so tactically amazing in that?
You are no athlete, are you? As in, you don't run, ride, swim or whatever that much?

He rode within his limits. Knowing energy consumption increases exponentially with increasing power usage he was able to beat stronger riders just by manage his energy expenditure. If that is not a tactical win over brute force so tell me, what is?
 
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Miburo said:
Walkman said:
the sceptic said:
he would? since when is Cancellara some kind of tactical mastermind?
Since when did Contador became one?

And Cancellara can use the most simple tactic. Just drop AC on every downhill and that's it. Win.
So Contador isn't a tactical genius compared to Froome? Wanna go there?
Genius?

No, he really isn't. I have never said Froome is a great tactician but you coming down so hard at him is just lame. He isn't the best by any means, but he ain't as bad as you are trying to make him.

But anyway, feel free to state you case for Contador being a tactical genius, I like to hear it, I really do.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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LMAO yea sure, you got me there.

I hope he's gonna lead Contador more often as he did in that vuelta, great tactics!!!
 
Jul 21, 2012
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but Miburo, do you even ride a bike? you can't appreciate Froome's amazing tactical brilliance before you try for yourself.
 
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Miburo said:
LMAO yea sure, you got me there.

I hope he's gonna lead Contador more often as he did in that vuelta, great tactics!!!
Why not just state your case about Contador being a tactical genius?

the sceptic said:
but Miburo, do you even ride a bike? you can't appreciate Froome's amazing tactical brilliance before you try for yourself.
Well, he certainly don't understand race dynamics and if you ever have been in a competition of sorts you'd know why I posted the video. Sure, laugh all you want, I don't care, I am not the one hating. Sour grapes isn't really my thing.
 

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