Is the new "clean" era over?

[doperhopper]

Re:

However dirty things were in the early blood passport era, things are definitely dirtier now.

There's obviously a very nuanced spectrum between Clean and Dirty, rather like there is between Left and Right (you never really get pure 100% communism or pure 100% capitalism).

But I would agree with the proposition that the peloton edged left (aka towards clean) and then edged right (aka towards dirty)....and is now sliding immutably into some kind of very right-wing hyper capitalist fascism.

but you know, at least in Europe, we have now only various forms of socialists (fortunately mostly just soft marxists, still operating under at least some kind of democracy, though there's euroaristocracy in Brussels), and correspondingly, only various levels of dopers in cycling (fortunately mostly soft dopers, still operating with some kind of common sense, biopass, tests, no Riccos anymore, though there's UCI that can make anyone positive or negative)

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

However dirty things were in the early blood passport era, things are definitely dirtier now.

There's obviously a very nuanced spectrum between Clean and Dirty, rather like there is between Left and Right (you never really get pure 100% communism or pure 100% capitalism).

But I would agree with the proposition that the peloton edged left (aka towards clean) and then edged right (aka towards dirty)....and is now sliding immutably into some kind of very right-wing hyper capitalist fascism.

Exactly this.
The notion that things never change at all is wrong, but more to the point, it's not very useful.

I doubt anyone ( even me ) argues that things dont change, but that is because new methods force the change. There was definitely a change as teams adjusted to the ABP, but that doesn't mean teams rode clean, the doping was reduced, IMO, only, but obviously there is a new formula out there and speeds are way up.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

However dirty things were in the early blood passport era, things are definitely dirtier now.

There's obviously a very nuanced spectrum between Clean and Dirty, rather like there is between Left and Right (you never really get pure 100% communism or pure 100% capitalism).

But I would agree with the proposition that the peloton edged left (aka towards clean) and then edged right (aka towards dirty)....and is now sliding immutably into some kind of very right-wing hyper capitalist fascism.

but you know, at least in Europe, we have now only various forms of socialists (fortunately mostly just soft marxists, still operating under at least some kind of democracy, though there's euroaristocracy in Brussels), and correspondingly, only various levels of dopers in cycling (fortunately mostly soft dopers, still operating with some kind of common sense, biopass, tests, no Riccos anymore, though there's UCI that can make anyone positive or negative)

Have to disagree with both of those claims. For the former, I'll grant you Greece, and the odd cultural studies department in various European universities. Nothing else.

For the latter, I don't think we can say that only dopers exist in the peloton. That's too strong. And I think there are some Riccos starting to appear.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Whats the connection between Capitalism and Fascism - two different ideologies.

Yes, but if we're in the sphere of political economy, on the far right is pure capitalism (i.e. no state intervention at all, except to secure individual property rights).

If we're in the sphere of political ideology, on the far right is fascism (i.e. a totalitarian authoritarian state which controls all things).

So whilst these are clearly different - contradictory in fact - they are both considered (in different ways) to be expressions of a far right.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Whats the connection between Capitalism and Fascism - two different ideologies.

Yes, but if we're in the sphere of political economy, on the far right is pure capitalism (i.e. no state intervention at all, except to secure individual property rights).

If we're in the sphere of political ideology, on the far right is fascism (i.e. a totalitarian authoritarian state which controls all things).

So whilst these are clearly different - contradictory in fact - they are both considered (in different ways) to be expressions of a far right.

chris hedges has often talked about the political philosopher sheldon wolin (see my double deference to authority!)
and wolin's capitalism as inverted totalinarianism. which is different from the command control capitalism of the peoples republic and bureau from beijing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGc8DMHMyi8

i will be facetious and say i like the third way and capitalism with a human face of blair and clinton because it can successfully hoodwink proletariat and rubes

 

[blackcat]

and hegelian, on a meta level, it is one step to the right, or one step to the left, if you use that political clock metaphor, and they are the same, the fascism and totalitarian communism are about power and control by those apparatchiks and frontmen. it does not need stalin, it needs stalin less than stalins henchmen.

 

[The Hegelian]

This is somewhat veering off topic, but if I may have the last word - I'm not sure that a liberalism free from 'power and control' has ever existed either. i.e. the whole damned political clock is: which version of power and control do you prefer? Good liberals just do it in a different way than Maoists. My evidence: that this conversation is being captured and stored by the liberals, in the name of liberty.

 

[Benotti69]

USADA's Testing Conundrum

Assume that an individual uses a drug ( a detectable one) 3 times a month. The detection window for that drug is two days.

Assume that the drug testing program tests 5% of the 1000 individuals in the testing pool each month.

How long does is take to detect this drug user?

9 years and 4 months.

That federations dont back test as much as possible and cannot be bothered to find the funding required for back testing never mind up to date testing shows how easy it is too dope and how the riders know they are being given an open door to dope.

 

[Gigs_98]

Clean era? Nope