Is the new "clean" era over?

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

I strongly disagree with OP's sentiment that there was anything justifiable about Froome
Very surprising that it took the other teams this long to start going nuclear as well
I'm sorry for everyone who believed in the miracle again

i never said last years performances were clean, but they were somehow human, believable, with doping within some decency limits, to make the sport credible, to be able to sell it as "clean" or cleaner.

few ridiculous performances were present every year but this days every day is a ridiculous day.

Sagan on MtBaldy is of such stupidity that i challenge anyone to find something of same level in the history of cycling. Cippo on Mount Ventoux ? or something like that.

Yeah as I said, I strongly disagree with all that
There was nothing human, believable or within decency about what Froome did on Ventoux
Sagan did this at age 21, during the "clean era":
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=20560
Which puts him way closer to Froome pre-transformation than to Cipollini, actually
I could easily find ten performances which rank more ridiculous than this one by Sagan, in my opinion, which you will undoubtedly disagree with
Candido Barbosa immediately springs to mind as similar although Libertine may correct me on that

I wouldn't disagree completely. And we know what Cândido was on.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He's like a World Tour level Cândido Barbosa! That's it! That's the Sagan thing! Thank you! You've managed to put a finger on why I don't even enjoy Sagan as a rider (even though I have little problem with his racing and my antipathy towards him is based on his person, many have said that they acknowledge his unlikable personality but because of his racing they can't bring themselves not to like him)!

Always another opportunity to post Torre 2007, with Hector Guerra dragging this 80kg sprinter up a 30km HC climb within a minute of the winners to pick up time bonuses.

http://videos.sapo.pt/O0dzHHVwjHoNzedT47HH

Tondó

 

[the sceptic]

it's pretty hillarious to see skyfans cry about too much doping, when it was sky that started this new arms race.

everyone knew this was going to happen, just suck it up and hope uncle Cookson gets rid of some of those non anglo dopers.

 

[Froomster]

This year started with Kristoff, Katusha, Zakarin and exploded with some of the most ridiculous performances ever saw in cycling

Astana domestiques at Giro
Sagan doing sprints and finishing few seconds off in HC climb at high altitude
Alaphillipe another ridiculous performance, sprinting last km on 10% after droping the "climbers"

It's clear that nobody can keep a straight face anymore

at least the ridiculous performances of Froome and Co. could be justified somehow with 2% body fat, 65kg's and stuff, you could keep a straight face when talking about new clean era.

but in the past weeks the ridiculous line was shamefully crossed. even Bassons was talking lately about "again fat asses out climbing climbers"

UCI failing to eliminate Astana is the signal for no shame doping again?

P.S. im not saying till now cycling was clean. but at least some decency boundaries were kept.

OK, so tell me what they're using? I also think that the doping is out of hand, because they are equalling the same times as the most doped era in history, but there are no passport violations, no (among the top riders) failed dope tests.

Whatever they're doing, they aren't/can't be caught. I've not heard any credible theories, apart from the "micro-doping" rubbish.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Gilbert 2011

One of the biggest jokes, not only him but also vanendert.

Suddenly winning MTF in the tour, before he was a joke and afterwards he became a joke again.

 

[Tonton]

The way I read the OP is different than some of you, whom I find to be a bit harsh with Sky Tears. My understanding of his opening statement is that we see an escalation. I agree with that. I don't believe that Sky Tears says that doping is re-surging, or that Wiggo '12 was legit. I think we can all agree that there was a great deal of hope for change during the UCI presidential campaign, and we may agree that the lack of follow up on the promises may have sparked a "OK screw it" reaction from some teams or riders. True: cycling never got clean to begin with. I think that Sky Tears recognized this when he wrote "clean". I share his feeling that something '90s-like may be happening.

 

[86TDFWinner]

No, it's not "over", just ask "Mr. Clean" himself, 2014 TDF winner Nibali, he'll tell you STILL that he's "cleans".

He wouldn't lie! "It's all a witch hunt"

 

[86TDFWinner]

This year started with Kristoff, Katusha, Zakarin and exploded with some of the most ridiculous performances ever saw in cycling

Astana domestiques at Giro
Sagan doing sprints and finishing few seconds off in HC climb at high altitude
Alaphillipe another ridiculous performance, sprinting last km on 10% after droping the "climbers"

It's clear that nobody can keep a straight face anymore

at least the ridiculous performances of Froome and Co. could be justified somehow with 2% body fat, 65kg's and stuff, you could keep a straight face when talking about new clean era.

but in the past weeks the ridiculous line was shamefully crossed. even Bassons was talking lately about "again fat asses out climbing climbers"

UCI failing to eliminate Astana is the signal for no shame doping again?

P.S. im not saying till now cycling was clean. but at least some decency boundaries were kept.

OK, so tell me what they're using? I also think that the doping is out of hand, because they are equalling the same times as the most doped era in history, but there are no passport violations, no (among the top riders) failed dope tests.

Whatever they're doing, they aren't/can't be caught. I've not heard any credible theories, apart from the "micro-doping" rubbish.

Funny, Armstrong supposedly "never had any violations either", yet we all know that was a lie. I have no proof mind you that anyone currently isn't "cleans", but I suspect a number of riders are still doping(as apparently, UCI is still clueless about actually trying to stop it).

Sagan(if true that he is doping), would be a shame. But I wouldn't be surprised. Right now, he's about to win the ATOC. I watched stage 6 highlights, and they all look as if they're on another planet race wise.

 

[bobbins]

Re:

it's pretty hillarious to see skyfans cry about too much doping, when it was sky that started this new arms race.

everyone knew this was going to happen, just suck it up and hope uncle Cookson gets rid of some of those non anglo dopers.

What's the difference between Astana and Sky?

3 years.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Sagan(if true that he is doping), would be a shame. But I wouldn't be surprised. Right now, he's about to win the ATOC. I watched stage 6 highlights, and they all look as if they're on another planet race wise.

Let's not overstate the quality of the ToC. It is a weak field and Baldy would be a Cat 2 climb at best in a euro stage race.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

it's pretty hillarious to see skyfans cry about too much doping, when it was sky that started this new arms race.

everyone knew this was going to happen, just suck it up and hope uncle Cookson gets rid of some of those non anglo dopers.

What's the difference between Astana and Sky?

3 years.

And about 50.000 posts.

for some reason no one seems to believe in astana even though there is no evidence.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

2008 was the ONLY attempt at a "new clean era" we could talk about with a straight face, because AFLD were actually trying to catch dopers.

Everything since then has been lip service only. You know this, but continue to peddle the same line to suggest Катюша and Astana this year are somehow more ridiculous than Sky and OPQS in 2012. What is the motivation?

are you arguing that Astana and Sagan are less ridiculous than Sky 2012 ?

Yes. If Astana and Sagan continue to ride like this for five months non-stop, they will be as ridiculous as Sky 2012.

What else needs to be said to this troll thread. Game over.

 

[the sceptic]

Still far behind the 2012 tour in terms of dominance. And lost in all this crying about Astana is Porte climbing much better than he ever has in the past.

 

[SkyTears]

new clean era is over

the current era is for sprinters that can challenge Caverndish on flat, win TT's and HC climbs, all at once.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

new clean era is over

the current era is for sprinters that can challenge Caverndish on flat, win TT's and HC climbs, all at once.

I don't remember Froome challenging Cavendish on the flat.

 

[Taxus4a]

NO-

 

[Benotti69]

Never was a clean era. Riders adjusting to the BioPassport.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The new "clean" era never existed.But i got to say,seeing people coming with all type of justifications to legitimate the last night freak show in ToC is hilarious.I hope they keep them coming.

The new wonder-drug for increasing power is a synthesized form of a substance called arrogantcretin. Sagan has a certificate for a high natural level of this substance.

LMAO. Well played, LS.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor??!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

 

[skippythepinhead]

This year started with Kristoff, Katusha, Zakarin and exploded with some of the most ridiculous performances ever saw in cycling

Astana domestiques at Giro
Sagan doing sprints and finishing few seconds off in HC climb at high altitude
Alaphillipe another ridiculous performance, sprinting last km on 10% after droping the "climbers"

It's clear that nobody can keep a straight face anymore

at least the ridiculous performances of Froome and Co. could be justified somehow with 2% body fat, 65kg's and stuff, you could keep a straight face when talking about new clean era.

but in the past weeks the ridiculous line was shamefully crossed. even Bassons was talking lately about "again fat asses out climbing climbers"

UCI failing to eliminate Astana is the signal for no shame doping again?

P.S. im not saying till now cycling was clean. but at least some decency boundaries were kept.

I don't get it. If the performances of Froome were ridiculous, how can they be justified, except perhaps by selective rationalization?

Why does it seem no one on Earth read the CIRC report?

 

[Benotti69]

at least the ridiculous performances of Froome and Co. could be justified somehow with 2% body fat, 65kg's and stuff, you could keep a straight face when talking about new clean era.

How can you 'justify' 'ridiculous' performances of Froome(hanging off the back of motorbikes on mountains) Wiggins over 3 hours down and gruppetto fodder, because they lost a few kilos?

Bollix!

Sky are as dirty as the rest. Of that there is little doubt. There was no clean era, there may have been a reduction as teams doctors worked out the BP, no doubt with the help of UCI's Zorzoli, but now it would appear all systems are fully functioning again.

 

[alspacka]

Silly thread.

 

[Benotti69]

Top 50 Rettenbachferner: The 2015 riders take it by storm!

anyone clean here:


1. 2015: 44:32 Thibaut Pinot 15.63 km/h
2. 2015: 45:06 Domenico Pozzovivo 15.43 km/h
3. 2015: 45:09 Simon Spilak 15.42 km/h
4. 2015: 45:15 Miguel Angel Lopez 15.38 km/h
5. 2015: 45:15 Geraint Thomas 15.38 km/h
6. 2007: 45:47 David Lopez 15.20 km/h
7. 2015: 45:47 Jakob Fuglsang 15.20 km/h
8. 2015: 45:50 Jan Hirt 15.19 km/h
9. 2007: 45:59 Jens Voigt 15.14 km/h
10. 2015: 46:01 Sergio Luis Henao 15.12 km/h

11. 2007: 46:07 Robert Gesink 15.09 km/h
12. 2005: 46:09 Levi Leipheimer 15.08 km/h
13. 2015: 46:09 Tom Dumoulin 15.08 km/h
14. 2015: 46:12 Rafal Majka 15.06 km/h
15. 2007: 46:20 Damiano Cunego 15.02 km/h
16. 2005: 46:24 Georg Totschnig 15.00 km/h
17. 2007: 46:33 Laurens Ten Dam 14.95 km/h
18. 2015: 46:48 Sébastien Reichenbach 14.87 km/h
19. 2015: 46:48 Steve Morabito 14.87 km/h
20. 2015: 46:48 Laurens Ten Dam 14.87 km/h
21. 2015: 46:48 Warren Barguil 14.87 km/h
22. 2007: 46:51 Leonardo Bertagnolli 14.86 km/h
23. 2007: 46:57 Levi Leipheimer 14.82 km/h
24. 2007: 46:57 Christian Pfannberger 14.82 km/h
25. 2005: 46:59 Jan Ullrich 14.81 km/h
26. 2015: 46:59 Robert Gesink 14.81 km/h
27. 2015: 47:07 Esteban Chaves 14.77 km/h
28. 2007: 47:16 Chris Anker Sørensen 14.72 km/h
29. 2005: 47:21 Cadel Evans 14.70 km/h
30. 2007: 47:30 Josep Jufre 14.65 km/h
31. 2005: 47:33 Jörg Jaksche 14.64 km/h
32. 2015: 47:35 Joseph Lloyd Dombrowski 14.63 km/h
33. 2015: 47:37 Bob Jungels 14.62 km/h
34. 2015: 47:37 Kristijan Durasek 14.62 km/h
35. 2005: 47:50 Tadej Valjavec 14.55 km/h
36. 2007: 47:57 Marzio Bruseghin 14.52 km/h
37. 2007: 48:02 Wim Van Huffel 14.49 km/h
38. 2007: 48:14 Maxime Monfort 14.43 km/h
39. 2007: 48:20 Florian Stalder 14.40 km/h
40. 2015: 48:29 Ben Hermans 14.36 km/h
41. 2007: 48:35 Davide Rebellin 14.33 km/h
42. 2007: 48:35 Andrea Tonti 14.33 km/h
43. 2007: 48:51 Peter Velits 14.25 km/h
44. 2005: 48:55 Saul Raisin 14.23 km/h
45. 2007: 48:56 Martin Elmiger 14.22 km/h
46. 2005: 48:57 Marco Fertonani 14.22 km/h
47. 2015: 49:00 Kanstantsin Siutsou 14.20 km/h
48. 2015: 49:02 Daniel Moreno 14.19 km/h
49. 2007: 49:07 Amaël Moinard 14.17 km/h
50. 2007: 49:14 Koos Moerenhout 14.14 km/h

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

http://sportsscientists.com/2011/07/tour-de-france-2011-the-biological-passport-context/

2008-early 2012 was relatively clean. The climax was the riding backwards TdF 2011 & the non-attacking Giro 2012. There were exceptions like the Vuelta 2011 where Cobo, Lagutin and Froome (amongst others) came out of nowhere. But well, that is the Vuelta. Testing is ... whatever ... there is always unusual things happening at the Vuelta (with Horners 2013 Vuelta being the low point in the history of cycling). Wigans transforming at the clean team™ in 2009. AC riding Alpe in 42 mins, just holding the wheel of Brajkovic, while Menchov dropped at the foot of that mountain, yet both shone a few weeks later in the 2010-TdF.
http://forum.cyclingnews.imdserve.com/viewtopic.php?t=8044
Then ofc there was 565 year-old-Horner shining at the no-testing-ToC 2011 which opened eyes to everybody that the BP can be tricked. The turning point. From there on more and more teams got back to old ways...

 

[BYOP88]

Just laughing at anyone who thinks cycling went through a 'clean era'.