Green Tea is a troll, but as some may be interested in the effects of creatine...some studies suggest a possible 3% rise in sustainable power even for endurance athletes...unfortunately usually accompanied by a 3% gain in weight. I suppose for some type of races this may be worthwhile. Note not the 10% gain in sustainable power from blood boosters.
Supplements like San V12 need banning earlier, rather than later.
Unfortunately blood boosters do very little in buffering lactic acid, hence power output & would do very little for guys like Cancellara in Roubaix. Cancellara didn't go away from other riders due to increased VO2 Max or red blood cell count.
Unfortunately blood boosters do very little in buffering lactic acid, hence power output & would do very little for guys like Cancellara in Roubaix. Cancellara didn't go away from other riders due to increased VO2 Max or red blood cell count.
- Jul 6, 2009
- 795
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i race cat3 i take creatine bcaas arginine glutamine and other aminos and supplements they do help and i notice a difference when using or not using them. creatine has its benefits even for endurance athletes contrary to the general opinion amongst cyclists. the water gain happens mainly with creatine monohydrate there are better forms which do not cause this the other aminos help as well. there are products that combine a number of substances and there helpful for me no-xplode etc.. these products help with training and recovery no doubt. that said to say blood doping epo hgh and other peds are useless comparatively is simply a *** statement not based in reality. it is also clear that you dont have a very good understanding of creatine epo or anything else for that matter.
- Feb 21, 2010
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Green Tea said:
I think this sort of post is so traumatically idiotic, it begs a ban.
Seriously? Creatine?
Clearly, you've got the skills and resources to find the internet, find cyclingnews.com... So how is it you have not applied those resources to find out the what/how/why/when's of creatine?
troll much?
- Feb 21, 2010
- 1,007
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Green Tea said:
It is not one single item/component that sets a rider apart. Rather, it is a systemic approach to increasing performance. To state, singly, that increased VO2 Max or red blood cell count allows a rider to ride away, only further illustrates your lack of focus on the issue, or your attempt to narrow it to one cause or substance... Americans call it "keeping an eye on the ball".
Imagine, all things equal, a few riders who have all products at their disposal, and have taken measures to maximize their effectiveness for their physiology. Now, consider that these same riders all are within a fraction of each other in terms of watts/kg, max watts, AT, VO2, etc...all the way down to mitochondrial development and glycogenic efficiency...
With me? Ok, now, what is not being factored? The space between the ears.
Sure, someone will always be the strongest climber, sprinter, TT'r, and someone will always be able to go one more than another but often it comes down to the mental aspect, and to me this includes pain barriers, that determines who can/will win.
Stop looking for "it" on the shelf of a pharmacy or nutritional shoppe. All of them have those at their disposal. What you cannot "buy" is instinct, determination paired with pain, and overall toughness. Those are not for purchase.
Please stop with you neo-naiveté (green?) re all "advanced techniques" in cycling. Get past that, as it is prevalent and the baseline has already been reset. Now, it gets back to mentality and how the mind is wired.
- Feb 21, 2010
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BikeCentric said:
Agree.
And, as it is, creatine does nothing much for the extreme endurance nature of races like P-R, Amstel, or really anything past about a 30 minute public race.
Hugh Januss said:I see while I was pulling the engine out of my 912 this afternoon Green Tease made the jump to Full genius.
The Cretin recomends Creatine, huh.
Porsche 912? Nice.
- Feb 21, 2010
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Do you own a creatine shop or something? And do you have access to any intelligence enhancing drugs you could start taking?Green Tea said:
Colm.Murphy said:My boyhood dream car. Simply exquisite.
is that yours?
I think Hugh has to post his now
(I know this has gone off topic, but its not like the topic was worth discussing.)
- May 2, 2009
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Green Tea said:
I still can't tell if you are just trolling, just clueless or as some suggested, both. Therefore, I'm going to be lazy and give you this chart; notice the lack of 'lactic acid':
- Feb 21, 2010
- 1,007
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Big GMaC said:is that yours?
I think Hugh has to post his now
(I know this has gone off topic, but its not like the topic was worth discussing.)
Nope, not mine. When I went to grab an image, this one captured my mind's eye perfectly: Autumn day, rural cottage, and the thought of a spirited jaunt to the countryside for a long weekend of pub hopping and many pints of the black stuff. Ah, the simple pleasures of life!
- Jul 9, 2009
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Big GMaC said:is that yours?
I think Hugh has to post his now
(I know this has gone off topic, but its not like the topic was worth discussing.)
OK you asked for it. OT, but if anybody has a problem with that I'm sure they will tell me where to put it.
Besides as GMaC points out this thread has already gone to hell anyway.
My backyard.
Help can somebody tell me how to resize pictures from tinypic? I only know how to settle for whatever I get.
karlboss said:
It maybe the case that people taking creatine were doing strength training. Therefore the increase in power came from doing squats rather than the creatine itself.
Creatine makes me a bit headachy. It also tastes horrible in a protein shake.
BroDeal said:
Are you saying you agree with the OP that creatine is the secret choice of all the pros? Even the apparent study on it was probably just the benefits of power training in my view. You disagree with me?
Colm.Murphy said:
The cool thing about the mental game is that placebos can have a non-trivial effect. If Green Tea actually believes creatine helps buffer the lactic acid, he may in fact "feel" less pain and be able to push higher power. Pretty sure that wouldn't work for pros who are already pushing their mental boundaries, but for us mortals, ignorance is bliss
Just find it strange how Cancellara is able to ride away, when hes not foolish enough to even contemplate doping illegal substances???. Same with Armstrongs Tour victories post '99, which incidentally, got faster & faster & faster as the years rolled on, the blood tests kept coming, negative, negative... LeMond was putting it down to illegal doping!. No Greg, NEGATIVE does actually mean just that, negative. ie Not cheating. ***.
Anyway...
Heres one product... Please note, this ISN'T the best product, good, but not the best.
With the birth of Fuel Injection V12 Turbo, faster gains in muscle mass, strength and endurance, become now a reality. Comprised of the latest technological breakthroughs, Fuel Injection V12 Turbo ™s barrier-defying complex is infused with the following revolutionary and result producing compounds -
Tricreatine Malate (Tri-Creatine Salt)
N.A.G(N-Acetyl L-Glutamine)
Betaine (Trimethylglycine)
Glycocyamine
NitroArginine(Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate)
Taurine
Together these compounds work synergistically to increase strength, endurance, recovery and vasodialation (blood flow). Also, Fuel Injection V12 Turbo increases glycogen storage, creatine production and nitrogen retention.
Ultimately, the use of this breakthrough dietary supplement sets the stage for unparalleled performance, strength and physique-transforming-effects.
Designed to make you feel UNBREAKABLE Fuel Injection V12 Turbo produces a "everlasting pump" with dramatic physique-altering-results in as little as 10 days.
V12 Turbo PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS:
1. Increased Lean Body Mass
2. Dramatic Strength & Endurance
3. Increased Protein Synthesis
4. Faster Recuperation From Exercise
5. Increased Vascularity
6. Better Nutrient Usage
7. Enhanced Endogenous Creatine Production
8. Stimulates A Positive Nitrogen Balance
9. Zero SUGAR and Carbs
10. GUARANTEED RESULTS!
HERE ™S WHAT THE COMPOUNDS FOUND IN V12 TURBO ARE AND WHAT THEY DO:
Tricreatine Malate: is a highly soluble creatine salt that provides much greater increase in creatine bioavailability over regular creatine monohydrate. This compound is creatine bound to malic acid. Malic acid is a naturally occurring kreb cycle intermediate, meaning that malic acid plays a crucial role in our natural energy producing cycle. Malic acid coupled with the effect of creatine as in Tricreatine Malate offers much greater ATP production over conventional creatine monohydrate. Additionally this creatine salt will not make you hold subcutaneous water like creatine monohydrate would since there is no water molecule in its chemical structure. All hydration will occur in the muscle cell. Also, Tricreatine Malate does not cause stomach discomfort and does not need to be loaded.
NitroArginine (AKG Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate): works by increasing levels of nitric oxide in the body. Nitric oxide is the key component at increasing blood flow, oxygen and nutrient delivery. NitroArginine ™s potent ability to increase blood flow by the widening of blood channels providing a constant supply of key anabolic substrates found in V12 Turbo. This all will lead to shuttle additional nutrient intake directly to muscle tissue providing an œEverlasting Pump �.
N.A.G (N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine): is the acetylated version of the most abundant amino acid found in skeletal muscle tissue...glutamine. N.A.G is more stable and metabolically efficient at delivering glutamines biological effects over conventional Glutamine or Glutamine Peptides. N.A.G will play a role in increasing muscle volume, glycogen storage, growth hormone production, and it will also positively affect ones own immune system function.
Betaine-Glycocyamine: These two compounds are combined at very specific ratios to aid in the natural production of creatine. They not only assist by increasing the body ™s own natural production of creatine, but also increase creatine phosphate storage inside the skeletal muscle cell itself. Furthermore, glycocyamine is a tremendously powerful anti-hyperglycemic agent, rivaling the effects of the pharmaceutical drug "Metformin" aka Glucophage.
Micronized Taurine: is the 2nd most abundant amino acid found in skeletal muscle. Taurine and sulfur are considered to be factors necessary for the control of many biochemical changes that take place in the aging process. It was also found to aid in the clearing of free radical wastes. Micronized Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses. It has cell-volumizing effects and insulin-mimicking properties. It has also been shown to aid in cardiovascular health.
Anyway...
Heres one product... Please note, this ISN'T the best product, good, but not the best.
With the birth of Fuel Injection V12 Turbo, faster gains in muscle mass, strength and endurance, become now a reality. Comprised of the latest technological breakthroughs, Fuel Injection V12 Turbo ™s barrier-defying complex is infused with the following revolutionary and result producing compounds -
Tricreatine Malate (Tri-Creatine Salt)
N.A.G(N-Acetyl L-Glutamine)
Betaine (Trimethylglycine)
Glycocyamine
NitroArginine(Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate)
Taurine
Together these compounds work synergistically to increase strength, endurance, recovery and vasodialation (blood flow). Also, Fuel Injection V12 Turbo increases glycogen storage, creatine production and nitrogen retention.
Ultimately, the use of this breakthrough dietary supplement sets the stage for unparalleled performance, strength and physique-transforming-effects.
Designed to make you feel UNBREAKABLE Fuel Injection V12 Turbo produces a "everlasting pump" with dramatic physique-altering-results in as little as 10 days.
V12 Turbo PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS:
1. Increased Lean Body Mass
2. Dramatic Strength & Endurance
3. Increased Protein Synthesis
4. Faster Recuperation From Exercise
5. Increased Vascularity
6. Better Nutrient Usage
7. Enhanced Endogenous Creatine Production
8. Stimulates A Positive Nitrogen Balance
9. Zero SUGAR and Carbs
10. GUARANTEED RESULTS!
HERE ™S WHAT THE COMPOUNDS FOUND IN V12 TURBO ARE AND WHAT THEY DO:
Tricreatine Malate: is a highly soluble creatine salt that provides much greater increase in creatine bioavailability over regular creatine monohydrate. This compound is creatine bound to malic acid. Malic acid is a naturally occurring kreb cycle intermediate, meaning that malic acid plays a crucial role in our natural energy producing cycle. Malic acid coupled with the effect of creatine as in Tricreatine Malate offers much greater ATP production over conventional creatine monohydrate. Additionally this creatine salt will not make you hold subcutaneous water like creatine monohydrate would since there is no water molecule in its chemical structure. All hydration will occur in the muscle cell. Also, Tricreatine Malate does not cause stomach discomfort and does not need to be loaded.
NitroArginine (AKG Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate): works by increasing levels of nitric oxide in the body. Nitric oxide is the key component at increasing blood flow, oxygen and nutrient delivery. NitroArginine ™s potent ability to increase blood flow by the widening of blood channels providing a constant supply of key anabolic substrates found in V12 Turbo. This all will lead to shuttle additional nutrient intake directly to muscle tissue providing an œEverlasting Pump �.
N.A.G (N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine): is the acetylated version of the most abundant amino acid found in skeletal muscle tissue...glutamine. N.A.G is more stable and metabolically efficient at delivering glutamines biological effects over conventional Glutamine or Glutamine Peptides. N.A.G will play a role in increasing muscle volume, glycogen storage, growth hormone production, and it will also positively affect ones own immune system function.
Betaine-Glycocyamine: These two compounds are combined at very specific ratios to aid in the natural production of creatine. They not only assist by increasing the body ™s own natural production of creatine, but also increase creatine phosphate storage inside the skeletal muscle cell itself. Furthermore, glycocyamine is a tremendously powerful anti-hyperglycemic agent, rivaling the effects of the pharmaceutical drug "Metformin" aka Glucophage.
Micronized Taurine: is the 2nd most abundant amino acid found in skeletal muscle. Taurine and sulfur are considered to be factors necessary for the control of many biochemical changes that take place in the aging process. It was also found to aid in the clearing of free radical wastes. Micronized Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses. It has cell-volumizing effects and insulin-mimicking properties. It has also been shown to aid in cardiovascular health.
OUCH.
Lets start banning the drugs that really matter.
You don't think guys supplementing this over riders that aren't wouldn't have an advantage??...
Take a walk.
Fabians got the secret formula.
Lets start banning the drugs that really matter.
You don't think guys supplementing this over riders that aren't wouldn't have an advantage??...
Take a walk.
Fabians got the secret formula.
Tri Matrix Evolution?
The latest German Creatine technology, "CREAPURE" creatine.
Unheard of 7,000mg of Branch Chain Amino Acids in each of the 40 servings.
Total of 3,000mgs of Citrulline Malate and 1600mgs Beta-Alanine helps prevent onset of fatigue.
Each serving contains 1,500mg of Taurine and 150mg of Caffeine for increased focus and concentration.
Antioxidants to combat Free Radicals.
Enhanced athletic performance.
At Reflex Nutrition we've always attempted the impossible. If a nutritional technology exists we strive to improve it, if it doesn't exist we create it ourselves.
This time we've explored the limits to create a totally new concept in supplementation. The result? Tri-Matrix Evolution, a new breed of supplement.
New Tri-Matrix Evolution does not fit in any current category; it defies nearly all commercially available supplements.
Tri-Matrix is actually comprised of five main components, each of which addresses a specific key training goal.
Creatine for your desire to lift heavier weights.
By combining the latest German Creatine technology we offer a "CREAPURE only" solution for your goals in strength and muscle. This uncompromising approach to our creatine selection guarantees that you only receive the finest creatine without the impurities.
Pure Branch Chain Amino Acids for your desire to stimulate protein synthesis.
For the first time in the history of sports nutrition you will find an unheard of 7,000mg of Branch Chain Amino Acids in each of the 40 servings. By adopting our no compromise approach we have used a specific amount of Branch Chained Amino Acids which replicate the exact dosage* and ratios used in the ground breaking study showing the positive effects of BCAA on protein synthesis.
* Based on a 70kg individual.
Carnosine pre-cursors and Citrulline for your desire to train harder than ever.
The harder, more intensely you train and the more weights you lift all lead to lead to great results. However, when you start to train more intensely your muscles will fatigue due to lactic acid, ammonia and acidity. A total of 3,000mgs of Citrulline Malate and 1600mgs Beta-Alanine helps keep you in the safe zone.
Focus and Concentration, mind over matter.
They say that the mind is stronger than muscle, research and experience tells us that the best workouts come from great focus and a positive attitude, so we've added ingredients to help you get into that zone. Each serving contains 1,500mg of Taurine and 150mg of Caffeine.*not suitable for those intolerant to caffeine/stimulants.
Antioxidants to combat Free Radicals
Strenuous sports and training sessions for endurance and strength can often cause muscle injuries which are exacerbated by simultaneous production of free radicals, TriMatrix Evolution helps combat free radicals damage with the inclusion of Grape Seed and Pine Bark extracts.
Totally new Tri-Matrix Evolution really is one of a kind, you only need to take it on training days half an hour before you train. Its very cost effective, one tub will typically last about 8 weeks if you train 5 days a week. We are sure you'll love new Tri-Matrix Evolution, in fact we are so sure that if you are not entirely satisfied then you may return for a full refund.
Important: This formula is designed for the serious training individuals only. The dosages in Tri-Matrix Evolution are higher than you might typically find. We advise trying half the recommended dose to assess your tolerance before using the full dose.
40 servings per container
Per 35gm Serving:
Calories 60
CREAPURE Creatine 5000mg
L-Leucine 3150mg
L-Isoleucine 1750mg
L-Valine 2100mg
Beta-Alanine 1600mg
Citrulline Malate 3000mg
Betaine 500mg
Taurine 1500mg
Caffeine 150mg
Grapeseed extract 50mg
Pinebark Extract 50mg
Vitamin B6 1.4mg
Glucose polymers, CREAPURE creatine monohydrate, L-leucine, citrulline malate, L-valine, L-isoleucine, beta-alanine, taurine, nature identical flavourings, betaine anhyrdous, carboxymethyl cellulose, natural colouring, caffeine, calcium silicate, grapseed extract (95% phenolic components), pinebark extract (95% phenolic components), artificial sweeteners (SPLENDA brand sucralose, acesulfame k), vitamin b6.
The latest German Creatine technology, "CREAPURE" creatine.
Unheard of 7,000mg of Branch Chain Amino Acids in each of the 40 servings.
Total of 3,000mgs of Citrulline Malate and 1600mgs Beta-Alanine helps prevent onset of fatigue.
Each serving contains 1,500mg of Taurine and 150mg of Caffeine for increased focus and concentration.
Antioxidants to combat Free Radicals.
Enhanced athletic performance.
At Reflex Nutrition we've always attempted the impossible. If a nutritional technology exists we strive to improve it, if it doesn't exist we create it ourselves.
This time we've explored the limits to create a totally new concept in supplementation. The result? Tri-Matrix Evolution, a new breed of supplement.
New Tri-Matrix Evolution does not fit in any current category; it defies nearly all commercially available supplements.
Tri-Matrix is actually comprised of five main components, each of which addresses a specific key training goal.
Creatine for your desire to lift heavier weights.
By combining the latest German Creatine technology we offer a "CREAPURE only" solution for your goals in strength and muscle. This uncompromising approach to our creatine selection guarantees that you only receive the finest creatine without the impurities.
Pure Branch Chain Amino Acids for your desire to stimulate protein synthesis.
For the first time in the history of sports nutrition you will find an unheard of 7,000mg of Branch Chain Amino Acids in each of the 40 servings. By adopting our no compromise approach we have used a specific amount of Branch Chained Amino Acids which replicate the exact dosage* and ratios used in the ground breaking study showing the positive effects of BCAA on protein synthesis.
* Based on a 70kg individual.
Carnosine pre-cursors and Citrulline for your desire to train harder than ever.
The harder, more intensely you train and the more weights you lift all lead to lead to great results. However, when you start to train more intensely your muscles will fatigue due to lactic acid, ammonia and acidity. A total of 3,000mgs of Citrulline Malate and 1600mgs Beta-Alanine helps keep you in the safe zone.
Focus and Concentration, mind over matter.
They say that the mind is stronger than muscle, research and experience tells us that the best workouts come from great focus and a positive attitude, so we've added ingredients to help you get into that zone. Each serving contains 1,500mg of Taurine and 150mg of Caffeine.*not suitable for those intolerant to caffeine/stimulants.
Antioxidants to combat Free Radicals
Strenuous sports and training sessions for endurance and strength can often cause muscle injuries which are exacerbated by simultaneous production of free radicals, TriMatrix Evolution helps combat free radicals damage with the inclusion of Grape Seed and Pine Bark extracts.
Totally new Tri-Matrix Evolution really is one of a kind, you only need to take it on training days half an hour before you train. Its very cost effective, one tub will typically last about 8 weeks if you train 5 days a week. We are sure you'll love new Tri-Matrix Evolution, in fact we are so sure that if you are not entirely satisfied then you may return for a full refund.
Important: This formula is designed for the serious training individuals only. The dosages in Tri-Matrix Evolution are higher than you might typically find. We advise trying half the recommended dose to assess your tolerance before using the full dose.
40 servings per container
Per 35gm Serving:
Calories 60
CREAPURE Creatine 5000mg
L-Leucine 3150mg
L-Isoleucine 1750mg
L-Valine 2100mg
Beta-Alanine 1600mg
Citrulline Malate 3000mg
Betaine 500mg
Taurine 1500mg
Caffeine 150mg
Grapeseed extract 50mg
Pinebark Extract 50mg
Vitamin B6 1.4mg
Glucose polymers, CREAPURE creatine monohydrate, L-leucine, citrulline malate, L-valine, L-isoleucine, beta-alanine, taurine, nature identical flavourings, betaine anhyrdous, carboxymethyl cellulose, natural colouring, caffeine, calcium silicate, grapseed extract (95% phenolic components), pinebark extract (95% phenolic components), artificial sweeteners (SPLENDA brand sucralose, acesulfame k), vitamin b6.
Multi-Million $ companies talking BS?, Because they really do love being sued.
Post #1.
Post #1.
Green Tea said:
Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster.
May I just begin with the comment "ahhhh first year biochemistry, burn out my eyes". I would then like to point out how creatine works.
I have the feeling that Green Tea is either increadibly dim, but more likely a troll. Have you ever noticed the consistent overuse of question marks my trolls???????
I mean, I just dont understand, what is with that?????? Of course we all know that lance will never test positive right?????????
Anyway, creatine works in the body by acting as an intermediate for direct phosphorylation of glucose to ATP. In short, its amazing for short bursts of energy. If you go to the gym to get big man boobs, then it will help you squeeze out one or two more reps in a set.
For an elite cyclist, it will give you an amazing energy boost.... for about seven seconds as you roll gently off the start line.
Blood boosters are great for lactic buffering. Of course they dont act dirrectly on the cori cycle etc, but they provide more oxygen to the tissues, so you can push harder before your legs even begin to produce lactic acid through anaerobic metabolism.
Hope I wasnt pointing out the obvious to anyone. If you want legit PED's try hitting some echinacea and iron supplements
May I just begin with the comment "ahhhh first year biochemistry, burn out my eyes". I would then like to point out how creatine works.
I have the feeling that Green Tea is either increadibly dim, but more likely a troll. Have you ever noticed the consistent overuse of question marks my trolls???????
I mean, I just dont understand, what is with that?????? Of course we all know that lance will never test positive right?????????
Anyway, creatine works in the body by acting as an intermediate for direct phosphorylation of glucose to ATP. In short, its amazing for short bursts of energy. If you go to the gym to get big man boobs, then it will help you squeeze out one or two more reps in a set.
For an elite cyclist, it will give you an amazing energy boost.... for about seven seconds as you roll gently off the start line.
Blood boosters are great for lactic buffering. Of course they dont act dirrectly on the cori cycle etc, but they provide more oxygen to the tissues, so you can push harder before your legs even begin to produce lactic acid through anaerobic metabolism.
Hope I wasnt pointing out the obvious to anyone. If you want legit PED's try hitting some echinacea and iron supplements
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