Is UAE Over the Top?

[Libertine Seguros]

If we're gonna go by that metric then we can confidently dismiss Froome's Finestre raid cause it was the slowest Finestre, the slowest Sestriere and the slowest Jafferau we've seen and conclude that Froome wasn't even impressive but his opponents were just that terrible.

I think measuring riders in their own time and era is more useful than measuring riders a decade apart.

Doing a slow time does not mean the level is automatically low. But doing record pace does automatically mean the level is high.

Or, to put it another way... Carl Lewis ran a 9,92 in the 100m at Seoul, a then-World Record. Ben Johnson ran 9,79, so won by 0,13 seconds, a vast, yawning chasm in the 100m. The fact that 100m running was by and large faster in 1988 than it had been in 1978 does not make Ben Johnson's opposition "at a low level" because he won by such a clear margin, because Lewis still ran a World Record pace.

 

[Cookster15]

And Vingegaard wasn't suddenly discovered during 2020 Tour. They already knew he was very strong before the race, since they have allowed him to be on a more extensive doping program from the start of the season.

You mean the 2021 Tour? Vingegaard wasn't in JVs team at the 2020 TdF.

 

[Rob5091]

Wellens beat the runner up in last year's World's U23 ITT in the Belgian nat ITT today. When was the last time Wellens won a TT (asking for a friend!)?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

You mean the 2021 Tour? Vingegaard wasn't in JVs team at the 2020 TdF.

Yes, that was a typo. Still they must have discovered his powers before the start of the 2021 season.

 

[veganrob]

Doing a slow time does not mean the level is automatically low. But doing record pace does automatically mean the level is high.

Or, to put it another way... Carl Lewis ran a 9,92 in the 100m at Seoul, a then-World Record. Ben Johnson ran 9,79, so won by 0,13 seconds, a vast, yawning chasm in the 100m. The fact that 100m running was by and large faster in 1988 than it had been in 1978 does not make Ben Johnson's opposition "at a low level" because he won by such a clear margin, because Lewis still ran a World Record pace.

And Lewis was doped too. Despite all the little USA condemnation of Johnson.

 

[Apolitical]

Martinez and Thomas let Pog go. They knew that the fight for 2nd was between them. The win was long gone. When Martinez "attacked" and Thomas followed the gap to Pog stabilised. It didn't grow as much anymore. The same happened in Tadej's 2nd win in the Tour. In that rainy stage where nobody followed his attack as they were already thinking of who will finish 2nd in the Tour. There is no question that Pogačar would still win with a big margin if everyone behind paced to their limit. But the gap would be much lower. Similar to how Yates and Joao gapped their opponents in Suisse. In the end it was over 3 minutes, but in stages they mostly got chunks of 15-30s. Pog would likely put close to a minute to them but the end gap wouldn't have been close to 10 minutes imo.

Not sure the logic here? I will drop back to race face to face with the guy I'm competing with for second place? I saw Martinez at least make an effort to go with Pogy. He had a gap, 50-100m or so, then sat up and dropped back to compete for second? But he can ride Pogy's pace if he wanted to? I'm sure if he could have, he would have rode Pogy's wheel for at least long enough to get a gap and then ride his own pace.

Are you sure the team car wasn't telling Pogy at some point the gap is good, put it in cruise control? We don't need to rub anymore salt in their wounds. Maybe the race directors told them not to overdo it or else? Ala Pantani.

I know Pog is the best riders on the planet. D'd or not. He even has amazing bike handling skills (UT some of his playing around on the bike). Jonas, being smaller and lighter may be a little better in the big mountains, or multiple days in the big mt's. But this is the same junk we were hearing when Lance was killing it and even his flatlanders were dropping climbers. Always a reason why, except the obvious.

UAE has 25 WT wins so far this year. Close to the next three teams combined.

 

[Rob5091]

Straight from altitude camp!
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ll-certainly-wear-the-jersey-with-great-pride

"I was motivated for this championship, I had also trained quite a bit on the time trial bike. But yesterday I was on an altitude training camp. I came here straight after my flight to explore the course. Today I did the route a few more times. I came with ambition, but winning is always difficult. So I'm super happy with the win." "My time trial went better than expected, I rode faster than my pacing plan because I had good legs today," Wellens looks back on the chrono test.

 

[CleanCiclismo]

Not sure the logic here? I will drop back to race face to face with the guy I'm competing with for second place? I saw Martinez at least make an effort to go with Pogy. He had a gap, 50-100m or so, then sat up and dropped back to compete for second? But he can ride Pogy's pace if he wanted to? I'm sure if he could have, he would have rode Pogy's wheel for at least long enough to get a gap and then ride his own pace.

Are you sure the team car wasn't telling Pogy at some point the gap is good, put it in cruise control? We don't need to rub anymore salt in their wounds. Maybe the race directors told them not to overdo it or else? Ala Pantani.

I know Pog is the best riders on the planet. D'd or not. He even has amazing bike handling skills (UT some of his playing around on the bike). Jonas, being smaller and lighter may be a little better in the big mountains, or multiple days in the big mt's. But this is the same junk we were hearing when Lance was killing it and even his flatlanders were dropping climbers. Always a reason why, except the obvious.

UAE has 25 WT wins so far this year. Close to the next three teams combined.

Martinez wasn't going to risk blowing up and losing his 2nd place that late into the race. He made a smart decision dropping back and marking Thomas. O'Connor made this mistake early on when he tried to follow and it likely cost him a podium in the end. But still when Martinez was caught the pace wasn't as high. Pellizzari who was in the break could easily hold the wheel. It was clear from the point where Pog launched that the rest would just cruise to the line and sprint in the lask k. The only one who dropped from that group was Storer in the end. You can't tell me that they were all on the same level. If they were racing to the best of their abilities Pog's gap wouldn't have been as high as it was. In the end Martinez was protecting his 2nd, G his 3rd.

 

[Ripper]

I like that we have a thread here for UAE. I fits given we also have a Drug-LAB thread and it's good for grouping together the supporting cast of ridiculous.

We need a name for UAE that sums them up ... superdoped sportswashing syndicate.

Slight tangent - I am watching the 2nd season of the Netflix TdF reality TV fun. Teddy comes across as fairly likeable albeit a bit too staged (which is likely mostly because it is after the fact interviews in English), but it still makes me cringe massively that Gianetti is given any air time.

 

[Apolitical]

I like that we have a thread here for UAE. I fits given we also have a Drug-LAB thread and it's good for grouping together the supporting cast of ridiculous.

We need a name for UAE that sums them up ... superdoped sportswashing syndicate.

Slight tangent - I am watching the 2nd season of the Netflix TdF reality TV fun. Teddy comes across as fairly likeable albeit a bit too staged (which is likely mostly because it is after the fact interviews in English), but it still makes me cringe massively that Gianetti is given any air time.

Yeah, he does seem like a likeable person. You get the impression even most the other riders like him. Which surprises me because even when he has a minutes or more on everyone in the breakaway - and the group of almost contenders chasing him - he still won't give them any bread crumbs. Lance was always brazen, but you got the feeling he would let the breakaway group get some glory after he sealed the gc.

But I think having a overly dominant rider sells. Just like all sports in the US. The teams that have won the most have the most fans whether or not it makes sense geographically. Even this thread felt like many people were justifying UAE/Pog because last year Jumbo won 3 gt's. Which was hardly my point and makes one think they were shifting the blame away from Pogy/UAE.

I'd like to see someone turn "UAE" into a doping moniker.

 

[proffate]

I'd like to see someone turn "UAE" into a doping moniker.

Using Anything and Everything

is that what you meant? Guess it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I'd like to see someone turn "UAE" into a doping moniker.

Unthinkable Anabolic Excesses?

 

[Ripper]

I think in a head to head battle on smugness and duuushyness, UAE beats VLAB.

I mean, even if I didn't think they were doped to the gills, I would have a hard time supporting UAE based on who is financially backing the team, who is coaching/leading the team, and general team PR.

 

[Ripper]

United A-holes and Extraterrestrials

Gianetti the Vampire's project.

 

[HunterHill]

You are right.

 

[ppanther92]

Over the top financially, yes. But as long as they don't get their GT act together, they will lose the Tour to Visma (which I suspect happens again this year - and tbh, considering the circumstances with Vingegaard in ICU 2 months ago and Kuss, van Baarle not even there, WvA a shadow of his self - its a bit embarassing).

 

[Mayomaniac]

Over the top financially, yes. But as long as they don't get their GT act together, they will lose the Tour to Visma (which I suspect happens again this year - and tbh, considering the circumstances with Vingegaard in ICU 2 months ago and Kuss, van Baarle not even there, WvA a shadow of his self - its a bit embarassing).

They let the inmates run the asylum...

 

[Heston]

This thread is a hilarious read. Lots of valid points being made about UAE's extremely obvious doping program, and the Pog fanboys defend it by presenting no actual defense but rather a bunch of whataboutism about Jumbo.

To answer the question in the OP: Yes, UAE are over the top. More over the top than Saunier Duval could ever dream of.

 

[magliaroz]

Politt doing a Bjerg today

 

[Heston]

Again, yes. Alien team sponsored by dictatorship money

 

[ashhutch1997]

This thread is a hilarious read. Lots of valid points being made about UAE's extremely obvious doping program, and the Pog fanboys defend it by presenting no actual defense but rather a bunch of whataboutism about Jumbo.

To answer the question in the OP: Yes, UAE are over the top. More over the top than Saunier Duval could ever dream of.

The streets will never forget Saunier Duval on the 2008 TDF.

 

[Monoxidator]

How is Giannetti still allowed to run a team?

 

[Mr. 64%]

We can close this thread now.

The answer is obviously "yes".

 

[E_F_]

Let's wait for the Tour before further conclusions.

I think we can make some further conclusions by now.

 

[Ripper]

I think we can make some further conclusions by now.

I think you may be right. Nils the new Wout?