Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

Page 207 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
ebandit said:
Right.....so uses word 'Jesus' but not in context of comparing Sky to perfection as per Hitch's ridiculous post :D

Mark L

So, the latest logic bomb is that folks are reading way too much into whole sentences criticising Sky over the TUE episode, but they should condemn Walsh as a Sky lover because: a) he used the word Jesus and: b) not the word asthma?
Sounds reasonable.:D
 
ebandit said:
Right.....so uses word 'Jesus' but not in context of comparing Sky to perfection as per Hitch's ridiculous post :D

Mark L

This is just nonsense. It's right there in front of you, in print and you have the nerve to try and make this argument.

You all would get some respect if there was a single whiff of you all posting with any intellectual honesty or rationality.

Embarrassing.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
red_flanders said:
So the answer to all the cogent, relevant and on-target points that Hitch makes is that he exaggerates for effect.

No ****.

How about someone getting over it and recognizing that what he is saying, that the overwhelming record of Walsh on this topic is to toss Sky's salad, and one feeble statement that could be construed as critical does not make up for that?

Why doesn't anyone address this?

Simple. It is wholly accurate and refutes about 95% of the BS spouted by Sky fans in this thread. You'd all have to admit you're totally and completely wrong.

Because they are trolling. Simple as that.
 
Mellow Velo said:
So, the latest logic bomb is that folks are reading way too much into whole sentences criticising Sky over the TUE episode, but they should condemn Walsh as a Sky lover because: a) he used the word Jesus and: b) not the word asthma?
Sounds reasonable.:D

No the latest logic bomb is that the idiotic defense of Walsh and attacks on Hitch's post have been totally and utterly refuted and not one of you admits to being totally and utterly wrong.

But sure. Make up the idea that Walsh comparing Froome to Jesus and Contador to Barabbas isn't blatant evidence of a massive bias, and that the complete absence of Froome's "asthma" in the book is just an oversight when the entire book apparently focuses on "why Froome sucked before he was great".

It's difficult to believe anyone is posting this stuff for real.
 
red_flanders said:
This is just nonsense. It's right there in front of you, in print and you have the nerve to try and make this argument.

You all would get some respect if there was a single whiff of you all posting with any intellectual honesty or rationality.

Embarrassing.

But the book isn't saying that Brailsford is like Jesus for his perfection, its saying that there is resentment towards him but that people seem to be forgiving of Riis, hence the Jesus v Barabbas story comparison.

Also, if you know your bible, you'll also know that the crowd had been whipped up by the Jewish Chief Priests to increase their resentment for Jesus, thus resulting in Barabbas' release. Sounds a bit like The Clinic ...
 
TheSpud said:
But the book isn't saying that Brailsford is like Jesus for his perfection, its saying that there is resentment towards him but that people seem to be forgiving of Riis, hence the Jesus v Barabbas story comparison.

Also, if you know your bible, you'll also know that the crowd had been whipped up by the Jewish Chief Priests to increase their resentment for Jesus, thus resulting in Barabbas' release. Sounds a bit like The Clinic ...

I'm sure you have formed your opinion by watching from the sidelines, only recently to jump in and offer these thoughts. Ignoring the fact that you, by definition, are part of the Clinic.

Cool story bro.
 
Mellow Velo said:
So, the latest logic bomb is that folks are reading way too much into whole sentences criticising Sky over the TUE episode, but they should condemn Walsh as a Sky lover because: a) he used the word Jesus and: b) not the word asthma?
Sounds reasonable.:D

Perfectly stated. +1

red_flanders said:
So the answer to all the cogent, relevant and on-target points that Hitch makes is that he exaggerates for effect.

No ****.

How about someone getting over it and recognizing that what he is saying, that the overwhelming record of Walsh on this topic is to toss Sky's salad, and one feeble statement that could be construed as critical does not make up for that?

Why doesn't anyone address this?

Simple. It is wholly accurate and refutes about 95% of the BS spouted by Sky fans in this thread. You'd all have to admit you're totally and completely wrong.

No, red-flanders, my problem with Hitch as I clearly stated in my next post is that he is claiming not to be exaggerating. So, I guess in your world, I have been 'refuted'. Also, one man's 'exaggerating for effect' is another man's 'twisting the facts' to play to their base. I can see why some may not want to engage in that kind of discussion.

I am surprised to see such a good poster like you erect such an ill- advised strawman. Where are people saying that two sentences or three tweets by Walsh is counterbalancing the rest of his words on the record? If you want to persist in this argument, please cite examples of this. It was certainly not something I wrote.
 
Mellow Velo said:
So, the latest logic bomb is that folks are reading way too much into whole sentences criticising Sky over the TUE episode, but they should condemn Walsh as a Sky lover because: a) he used the word Jesus and: b) not the word asthma?
Sounds reasonable.:D

Come on MV, it's simple.

99 occasions on which he praised sky and kissed Brailsford ****

1 occasion on which he criticized them mildly

He's a Sky lover

You keep repeating you're not a Sky fanboy. I don't believe you.
 
thehog said:
Well it can't be an exaggeration as you suggest if he does compare Brailsford to Jesus, can it? I think you've made an error, yes?

And Walsh doesn't just use the word "Jesus" he compares Brailsford to "Jesus". Walsh also compares Sky to perfection. Its in the above passage if you care enough to read it.

You also seem to be defending Walsh awfully hard for someone who hasn't read the book :cool:

I think you need to brush up on your literacy skills.....


The Hitch said:
So as I understand the last few pages, Walsh is neutral on sky because after 2 years of comparing them to Jesus, holding them up as the model of perfection and absolutely everything that is good about mankind,

Nice attempt at a little twist there, hog.......you even fooled red Flanders :rolleyes:
 
red_flanders said:
This is just nonsense. It's right there in front of you, in print and you have the nerve to try and make this argument.

You all would get some respect if there was a single whiff of you all posting with any intellectual honesty or rationality.

Embarrassing.

I thought it was embarrassing as well. Because we've been discussed the passages in the book for months now.

At least ebandit is now aware of what Walsh wrote about Jesus even though he hasn't read the book.

Maybe Mark L has changed his postion now on Walsh?
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
thehog said:
I thought it was embarrassing as well. Because we've been discussed the passages in the book for months now.

At least ebandit is now aware of what Walsh wrote about Jesus even though he hasn't read the book.

Maybe Mark L has changed his postion now on Walsh?

I was told once that we must read all articles and books before forming an opinion.

So I think Mark should read the book, then he can get back to us with his views on Walsh.
 
the sceptic said:
I was told once that we must read all articles and books before forming an opinion.

So I think Mark should read the book, then he can get back to us with his views on Walsh.

Yes, I know, it's funny isn't it?

Walsh will be happy though. His books sales will increase by 3 copies! :cool:

Mark is embarrassing. Just blindly defending Walsh and hasn't even read the book. He has become a bit of a joke to be honest. But that's the bots for you. Will say anything to avoid the truth.
 
djpbaltimore said:
Perfectly stated. +1



No, red-flanders, my problem with Hitch as I clearly stated in my next post is that he is claiming not to be exaggerating. So, I guess in your world, I have been 'refuted'. Also, one man's 'exaggerating for effect' is another man's 'twisting the facts' to play to their base. I can see why some may not want to engage in that kind of discussion.

I am surprised to see such a good poster like you erect such an ill- advised strawman. Where are people saying that two sentences or three tweets by Walsh is counterbalancing the rest of his words on the record? If you want to persist in this argument, please cite examples of this. It was certainly not something I wrote.

My problem is that people are attacking Hitch's post because of "exaggeration". Conceded. Who cares? Can someone please address the content and thrust of the post instead of whining about how he stated it? One, any exaggeration is minor, and two, it SCREAMS of avoiding the actual thrust of the post because it actually can't be refuted.

You want examples? You're kidding, right? Here are a few which seek to excuse Walsh's record on tossing Froome's salad by citing a couple of comments from Walsh on the TUE's.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609149&postcount=4813
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609151&postcount=4815
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609158&postcount=4819
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609160&postcount=4821
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609192&postcount=4832

Embarrasing just re-reading that drivel.
 
red_flanders said:
You want examples? You're kidding, right? Here are a few which seek to excuse Walsh's record on tossing Froome's salad by citing a couple of comments from Walsh on the TUE's.

I wasn't seeking to excuse Walsh at all in my post (4813) just pointing the irony ebandit was seeking to highlight (ie that Walsh has actually said things that criticise Sky). It seems a more accurate post than Hogs one where he states Walsh was defending Sky and the TUE on his Twitter account, where in fact when I looked I couldn't find any such tweets. I see we haven't actually seen them yet either ...

And just fyi - i haven't read his Sky books. The last one I read was Seven Deadly Sins which I thought was very disappointing - basically a massive cut & paste / rehash of previous books.
 
TourOfSardinia said:
No not if he has to buy it - that would be just feathering Froome/Walsh's nests. :(

Don't worry, the Walsh books have already hit the bargin bins. Half price on Amaz(o)n LOL!

Mark can buy several copies and bring himself up to date on Walsh, the details and context that he missed :cool:

Hopefully then he won't make any more mistakes like today.
 
red_flanders said:
My problem is that people are attacking Hitch's post because of "exaggeration". Conceded. Who cares? Can someone please address the content and thrust of the post instead of whining about how he stated it? One, any exaggeration is minor, and two, it SCREAMS of avoiding the actual thrust of the post because it actually can't be refuted.

You want examples? You're kidding, right? Here are a few which seek to excuse Walsh's record on tossing Froome's salad by citing a couple of comments from Walsh on the TUE's.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609149&postcount=4813
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609151&postcount=4815
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609158&postcount=4819
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609160&postcount=4821
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609192&postcount=4832

Embarrasing just re-reading that drivel.


None of those examples really address my issue with your post. I wanted examples where I (or other posters) claimed that those two sentences gave him a pass for the rest of his words and deeds on record. It seems to me that you are inferring what other people are thinking based on what they wrote and making a sweeping generalization.

You have written some of the most cogent, incisive arguments with respect to doping and sky, so I would think you would want to run far away from loaded arguments about Froome racing on illegal horse steroids and Walsh taking every single word out Brailsford's mouth as the word of god.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
thehog said:
Don't worry, the Walsh books have already hit the bargin bins. Half price on Amaz(o)n LOL!

Mark can buy several copies and bring himself up to date on Walsh, the details and context that he missed :cool:

Hopefully then he won't make any more mistakes like today.

Christmas won't be the same this year without a sky book. :(
 
djpbaltimore said:
None of those examples really address my issue with your post. I wanted examples where I (or other posters) claimed that those two sentences gave him a pass for the rest of his words and deeds on record. It seems to me that you are inferring what other people are thinking based on what they wrote and making a sweeping generalization.

You have written some of the most cogent, incisive arguments with respect to doping and sky, so I would think you would want to run far away from loaded arguments about Froome racing on illegal horse steroids and Walsh taking every single word out Brailsford's mouth as the word of god.

Well then we disagree strongly. The posts I linked have the sole purpose of attempting to make Walsh look credible by pointing out the rare instances where he has deviated from the Sky or Froome talking points. They are in fact mild exceptions which only server to underline the rule.

I don't think I'm inferring anything. I think I'm accurately identifying the actual motivation behind the posts. I think the generalization is wholly accurate.

I'm glad you've enjoyed some of my posts, but this is my strong feeling on what's happening here. People are reacting to the "exaggeration" for one simple reason. It's spot on. Or they would ignore it. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" comes to mind.

I think it is wholly accurate to rail Walsh for his taking Brailsford's word hook line and sinker. It is the overwhelming criticism of his approach and is exactly the point of this thread. He has become, willingly or otherwise, a stooge and a mouthpiece for the team, offering almost no rational critique of anything they have said. The extremely rare occasions where he has offered mild critique are STILL based in being uncritical. His "critique" of the UCI and Sky in the TUE situation are instructional. He simply accepts what the UCI and Sky are saying happened as if it were the actual truth in the matter, ignoring the UCI's long history of lying and covering up positives, and the particular way in which they've done it with TUE's and Zorzoli.

Any informed and rational observer has to deal with the very high likelihood that Sky and the UCI have not exactly given all the details of what really happened, just as they have in the past. One must ask, "After so many coverups and all the strange circumstances here, how can you expect us to take what you say at face value?" But no such questions trouble Walsh at this point. He is a believer, has stated such and has demonized riders who have quite likely done NOTHING different than Sky or Froome in particular.

As such I not only appreciate Hitch's post calling out these posters but applaud it. They are very much part of the problem. No truth will come to the fore when people are willing to swallow such biased and un-critical observations.
 
thehog said:
Don't worry, the Walsh books have already hit the bargin bins. Half price on Amaz(o)n LOL!

Mark can buy several copies and bring himself up to date on Walsh, the details and context that he missed :cool:

Hopefully then he won't make any more mistakes like today.

Keep saying it hog

.......but it won't make you any more right ;)

I've caught you out (again) with a blatant strawman and you've called up your little army of co-trolls to try and shout it as a victory :rolleyes:.....

You lot remind me of these guys.....

Kennett.jpg
 
the sceptic said:
Christmas won't be the same this year without a sky book. :(

I know. I will miss my Walsh fantasy Christmas present! :cool:

But I'm sure he's planning a new one! Maybe when Thomas competes his transformation into GT rider? Or Porte wins the Tour losing 10kg in 3 months?

Lots to look forward to! :cool:
 
LaFlorecita said:
Come on MV, it's simple.

99 occasions on which he praised sky and kissed Brailsford ****

1 occasion on which he criticized them mildly

He's a Sky lover

You keep repeating you're not a Sky fanboy. I don't believe you.

The trouble is Flo, that latecomers are wading into the wrong debate and the goalposts have become nomadic, once again.

Nobody here was talking about the overall perception of Walsh on Sky.
The debate was whether or not he been critical of Sky over the TUE issue.
It seems on that occasion, you agree with this single and very specific point, albeit mildly.;)

My opinion on Walsh's soap opera of a book for instance, would be quite different.