Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

[thehog]

Ok one more from the Book of Walsh:

 

[mewmewmew13]

Ok one more from the Book of Walsh:

……...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Inspector Clouseau indeed.

 

[rainman]

Ok one more from the Book of Walsh:

Doesn't miss a trick our Sherlock. Every detail noted and queried. Still at least he got the name right, unless he meant Gorilla

 

[LaFlorecita]

I guess Walsh is really getting senile.

 

[The Hitch]

Meh, I can forgive him that one error. Is it a result of him being relatively in the dark about the sport? Possibly, but mixing up teams on one occasion can also be an honest mistake.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Meh, I can forgive him that one error. Is it a result of him being relatively in the dark about the sport? Possibly, but mixing up teams on one occasion can also be an honest mistake.

In a book? Proof read and edited?

For my money it's yet another example of Sky's "attention to detail" being shown up as false. Yes, IMO Walsh is now a member of Team Sky.

 

[sniper]

Pretty blunt error by walsh.
I mean, what was Walsh doing when Kittel won his four TdF stages?
Having a nap?
And isn't kittel one of froome's better peloton buddies?

A poster on an internet forum can make such mistakes, but not a seasoned journalist writing about 2013 Sky TdF experience.

 

[thehog]

Meh, I can forgive him that one error. Is it a result of him being relatively in the dark about the sport? Possibly, but mixing up teams on one occasion can also be an honest mistake.

Agreed. But I think when it gets rolled in that there are so many of these basic errors. The book feels rushed.

He is selling this book for profit after all. The Contador mistake is the worst kind. After labelling him Judas he can't even get the way in which he tested positive correct.

Walsh is telling us about Sky's attention to details etc. whilst showing none himself!

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The book is just like Sky, full of inconsistencies, wrong data. Walsh just followed where 'his new masters' are good at.

That of course is a joke, but those little faults in the book are examplary for that tweet Vaughters made this year:
https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/333608801284542464

People saw Walsh as the High Chancellor of Anti - Doping. Bazinga, they were wrong. He just had it in for Armstrong. Nothing wrong with that. He did a good job. Got good sources, had good co - writers, lets not forget that. No complaints.

What I do find to be strange is Walsh comparing everything Sky do with how Postal worked. Well, uh, that is a bit strange. Sky do this, well, that is different to US Postal so they must be clean!

That is a line of reasoning beyond my comprehension, like Postal were the one set up of team wide doping? Did Walsh go to that Kelme guy who almost died on the road and ask how Kelme's logistics worked? Did they have a motoman? Phonak? Rabo?

I have no problems with Walsh claiming Sky are clean, I just have to giggle when he tries to explain, even he cant prove a negative.

 

[sniper]

Walsh has shown us that the "embedded" thing is way overrated. What can a journo do to prove a negative? He can pull a pile of crap out of his sleeve.
A clean team should hand their data to independent scientists of the caliber of ashenden.

it was a great move by sky, though.
if you ask them why they don't pass froome's complete set of data to ashenden, they'll say: dude, we had walsh embedded, what more can we do?

 

[The Hitch]

Walsh doesn't do anything for the Sky argument. Anyone who believes - porte had a bad day in the mountains and he shares a room with Froome so it is impossible for Froome to dope, already believed all the previous sky arguments about how since Sky never attack they can match Armstrong's pace etc.

Walsh also only caters to the English language fans, he is far less important in Europe where no one believes Sky to start with and they will all be in for quite some laugh if it ever gets translated.

The fact that the apparently when he appeared on Irish radio, the majority disagreed with Walsh, shows that all Walsh's little stint accomplished was made got him the book deals.

 

[sniper]

Rob Pouw ‏@rapouw 12 Dec

Finished Inside Team Sky by @DavidWalshST. Very interesting insights on its organisation. Wonder how lessons learned change things in 2014.

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 13 Dec

@rapouw Rob they didn't learn lessons from Leinders. From what I can see they are now committed to do better on recruitment. Time will tell.

lol.

Rob Pouw ‏@rapouw 23h

@DavidWalshST the mistakes made in recruitment surprised me the most whereas all other areas they work more professional than any other

big surprise indeed.

 

[thehog]

Rob Pouw ‏@rapouw 12 Dec



David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 13 Dec
lol.

Rob Pouw ‏@rapouw 23h
big surprise indeed.

In other areas they work more professional. I won't list out what those areas are or provide a comparative study. Please just take it as gospel.

 

[BradCantona]

The day Walsh discovers Sky are doping - should that day ever come, and speculation heavily outweighs actual evidence at this point - I fully expect and anticipate he will be breaking that story and chasing down sporting justice. I believe that, because he has form. And he's happy to fight against the prevailing wind. While I don't think his recent book was the best example of journalism I've ever read, some of the arguments against him on here reek, with observations taken out of context, everything read as "this is why Sky don't dope" despite it being obvious that wasn't the point being made.

A rush job, and a cash in project? Maybe. A betrayal of instincts, a cover up clambering aboard the bandwagon? Having endured the isolation of the Armstrong years? Bullshine

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Okee dokee. Thanks for coming out...

 

[BradCantona]

In a sport that's been riddled with doping, for me it just belies belief that someone who's contributed so heavily to exposing that, then has a small following on here so devoted to insisting he's a sell out liar hiding true deceit.

He hasn't found any evidence Sky dope. He thinks they are clean. He has done nothing - NOTHING - to suggest he'd ever be part of a doping cover up, to be part of a 'bandwagon'. I think the treatment of him here is ridiculous. The kangeroo court already has him tried and executed

 

[Cyivel]

Whilst it has been said that he has sold out and it's been insinuated he's on the payroll or whatever I'd suggest that is the opinion of a very small minority, most people that have taken issue with him do so over the reasons he gives for thinking Sky are clean and his effusive praise of them imo.

As someone who subscribes to the latter of those I also agree if he witnessed doping or got some information that proved Sky were doping that he wouldn't cover it up.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

As someone who subscribes to the latter of those I also agree if he witnessed doping or got some information that proved Sky were doping that he wouldn't cover it up.

Except he hasn't looked for it because he went in from the start thinking it wasn't there.

And by now, I am of the opinion no one would be brave enough to tell him anything, given his relationship with the key stake holders.

If there is doping, he is going to look like a right goose.

 

[The Hitch]

In a sport that's been riddled with doping, for me it just belies belief that someone who's contributed so heavily to exposing that, then has a small following on here so devoted to insisting he's a sell out liar hiding true deceit.

He hasn't found any evidence Sky dope. He thinks they are clean. He has done nothing - NOTHING - to suggest he'd ever be part of a doping cover up, to be part of a 'bandwagon'. I think the treatment of him here is ridiculous. The kangeroo court already has him tried and executed

Ah the classic anti clinic strawman (is it you joachim?), of saying that it is an insignificant mental institute that is insignificant, insignificant, ridiculed around the world by higher classes of intellectually superior people, and insignificant.

Usually brought in in desperation by people as much trying to convince themselves so they can sleep at night in the delusion that no one doubts Armstrong/ Sky, as it is to convince the clinicians themselves and get them to back off.

A scoundrel argument that serves as the last refuge of the patriots.

Close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream "lalalalalal, you are few and isnignificant", all you want. The loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room and you know full well that doubt towards Armstrong/ Sky, went/ goes well beyond the clinic. The 22 000 out of 27 000 Danish tabloid readers who answered "is Froome doping" as yes, during the Tour de France, are unlikely to have been just the hog under 22 000 different accounts.

The criticsism Walsh has received on twitter, sometimes perhaps a tad unpleasant, could not possibly have just come from the clinic or it would have expired at some point in May.

When Walsh went to discuss his book on irish radio, the presenters said the majority of those writing in disagree with him.

Even the journalist Shane Stokes was ripping holes in Walsh's book as was Kimmage about Walsh's article in July.

So no, its not just 12 guys in the clinic. I know you want to believe that it is, but if you did, you wouldn't feel the need to repeat it over and over again.

 

[Netserk]

Ah the classic anti clinic strawman (is it you joachim?), of saying that it is an insignificant mental institute that is insignificant, insignificant, ridiculed around the world by higher classes of intellectually superior people, and insignificant.

He certainly does smell.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Google result pointing to Twitter account says otherwise?

 

[andy1234]

Ah the classic anti clinic strawman (is it you joachim?), of saying that it is an insignificant mental institute that is insignificant, insignificant, ridiculed around the world by higher classes of intellectually superior people, and insignificant.

Usually brought in in desperation by people as much trying to convince themselves so they can sleep at night in the delusion that no one doubts Armstrong/ Sky, as it is to convince the clinicians themselves and get them to back off.

A scoundrel argument that serves as the last refuge of the patriots.

Close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream "lalalalalal, you are few and isnignificant", all you want. The loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room and you know full well that doubt towards Armstrong/ Sky, went/ goes well beyond the clinic. The 22 000 out of 27 000 Danish tabloid readers who answered "is Froome doping" as yes, during the Tour de France, are unlikely to have been just the hog under 22 000 different accounts.

The criticsism Walsh has received on twitter, sometimes perhaps a tad unpleasant, could not possibly have just come from the clinic or it would have expired at some point in May.

When Walsh went to discuss his book on irish radio, the presenters said the majority of those writing in disagree with him.

Even the journalist Shane Stokes was ripping holes in Walsh's book as was Kimmage about Walsh's article in July.

So no, its not just 12 guys in the clinic. I know you want to believe that it is, but if you did, you wouldn't feel the need to repeat it over and over again.

Defensive, much?

A large majority of the clinic are recreational moaners, with nowt better to do.
They drown out the reasonable debate, from good posters, such as yourself.

No need to defend them, it just weakens your argument......

There is also nothing in Bradcantona's last post that is incorrect.

 

[the sceptic]

Defensive, much?

A large majority of the clinic are recreational moaners, with nowt better to do.
They drown out the reasonable debate, from good posters, such as yourself.

No need to defend them, it just weakens your argument......

There is also nothing in Bradcantona's last post that is incorrect.

Do you have any evidence for any of that?

 

[proffate]

He hasn't found any evidence Sky dope. He thinks they are clean. He has done nothing - NOTHING - to suggest he'd ever be part of a doping cover up, to be part of a 'bandwagon'. I think the treatment of him here is ridiculous. The kangeroo court already has him tried and executed

What could he do that would suggest this in your eyes? What about the last umpteen pages are full of Walsh arguments that don't make sense and contradict assertions and stances from earlier in his own career, or are plain nonsense? I think the clinic has been generally charitable in attributing this to a "bandwagon" effect where Walsh believes something and then he bends over backwards to argue his point, meaning he's guided by his heart/wallet rather than his brain.

p.s. Why is "kangaroo court" such a popular phrase in the pro-doping circles? No one else has ever compared the clinic to a court of law.