Isaac Del Toro thread

[Rackham]

I kinda think of Del Toro as Kamala Harris in that he just kind of fell into the leadership role because the primary leader had dropped out

I almost spat my tea out. Juan Ayuso as Joe Biden was not something I expected to read here.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Not enough confidence, afraid of upsetting the team, mentally exhausted.

Logically you want to negative split such a climb Almeida style. It seems Del Toro wanted to as well. But then he also wanted to follow Carapaz.

I think he just tried to do both in a backwards "logic" resulting in just chasing Carapaz.

Also did he have enough fuel?

I didn't get the impression he ran out of fuel, he just miscalculated on how to use it. And so did the team car. I actually blame the team car more because I think he needed more guidance and just didn't get it in a smart way.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Maybe team B was not supposed to win?

 

[topcat]

Maybe del Toro, UAE and half the forum thought del Toro was going to blow up and lose the podium. When it turned out he was probably strong enough to win but rode in such a negative and foolish way, no way team UAE are going to take responsibility for their blunder.
Carapaz is putting a positive spin on his 3rd place, del Toro is putting a positive spin on his 2nd place, hoping people won't bring up that awkward hour on Finestre.
But it's way more interesting than what we usually get: strongest guy wins.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Maybe team B was not supposed to win?

Hm, I think UAE had no plan for the B team and whatever they had to cook up on the spot failed spectacularly. (I'm specifically referring to stage 20.)

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I agree with all the criticism of del Toro but he can bounce back.

He may have around 15 years to do so, and it only took Yates 7.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Del Toro rode poorly on Finestre.

If you are really afraid of blowing up you don't follow a rampant Caparaz going full Berserk mode right at the start of the climb. That was a brutal pace. Del Toro raced to protect his place against Carapaz, not to defend his pink jersey or to secure a podium placing. That is one of the weirdest strategy I've seen in +25 years of consciously watching cycling.

Yeah exactly. The strange thing was that he wouldn’t give Carapaz an inch, but he gave Yates a mile. He dug deep to chase down every Carapaz move but just let Yates ride away without regard. Honestly, he rode like a teammate of Yates. He clearly had legs or he wouldn’t have sprinted repeatedly with Carapaz or at the end of the stage. Very odd.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

He may have around 15 years to do so, and it only took Yates 7.

And he might also end up like Kruijswijk and never get another chance again.

 

[topcat]

This is me watching del Toro's tactics on Finestre.

https://imgur.com/a/RKiThqV

View: https://imgur.com/a/RKiThqV

 

[scribers]

UAE is a tactical mess always. I swear in the team cars they're probaly arguing with each other on who is the leader and what to do. They're a mess with too much money.

Bruyneel alone could fix this

 

[scribers]

Del Toro rode poorly on Finestre.

If you are really afraid of blowing up you don't follow a rampant Caparaz going full Berserk mode right at the start of the climb. That was a brutal pace. Del Toro raced to protect his place against Carapaz, not to defend his pink jersey or to secure a podium placing. That is one of the weirdest strategy I've seen in +25 years of consciously watching cycling.

I think the strategy was to survive Finestre and attack the final finish ascent. Carapaz wanted to drop IDT (or lose the giro) on the Finistère and uae tactically didn’t take WVA seriously enough. Being as UAE had no serious helpers for the Finestre they simply were not strong enough. This is the peril that is a squad with Ayuso on it. Just not enough ‘team’.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

This is me watching del Toro's tactics on Finestre.

https://imgur.com/a/RKiThqV

View: https://imgur.com/a/RKiThqV

I'm more like:



Or, actually more like this one:

 

[Potomac]

IDT looked strong enough at the very end that I'm not buying the "he didn't have strength" on Finestre.
The only believable explanation is bad advice from the team car.

 

[hayneplane]

UAE is a tactical mess always. I swear in the team cars they're probaly arguing with each other on who is the leader and what to do. They're a mess with too much money.

The brilliance of Pogacar bails them out a ton as without him they are rarely close to winning a big race.

 

[Izzyeviel]

IDT looked strong enough at the very end that I'm not buying the "he didn't have strength" on Finestre.
The only believable explanation is bad advice from the team car.

Well, that & the planning on the team bus. Its like he & no-one in the team understood who the guy in yellow was. I can only presume the team meeting went 'everyone support Del boy, Del boy, you just gotta follow Carapaz'

 

[jmdirt]

I have an overwhelming feeling of "D if you don't, D if you do" here.

We saw (hindsight) what happened when he didn't, but if he would have followed (jump to) Yates and blown, he would be getting hammered for not riding smarter.

 

[Sciatic]

Baldato says the team car told Isaac Del Toro to chase Yates when his lead grew to over half a minute but he only did it once. He apparently wanted to save energy for the finish. They said the rider made the choice, it was his decision, not the car's.

Wroeging bij ploegleider UAE Emirates XRG: "We hebben Simon Yates onderschat"

Ploegleider Mauro Gianetti erkende al dat UAE Emirates XRG fouten heeft gemaakt in de twintigste etappe van de Giro d’Italia. Nu doet ook zijn collega Fabio Baldato dat. De Italiaan geeft toe dat ze Simon Yates hebben onderschat en baalt dat hij Isaac Del Toro niet meer heeft aangemoedigd. “We...

www.wielerflits.nl

It reads like politely throwing him under a small bus tbh.

Yeah, that’s crazy. We’ve seen team cars drive right up alongside riders to get them the message (of the team’s plan) loud and clear. That kind of push was especially needed for 21 y.o. Rider with the pressure of a GT win on his shoulders. The DS also needed to hammer in that Simon still had Wout out in front him to pull on the final climb, which Del Toro perhaps couldn’t calculate the importance of that in the midst of fatigue and strain.

 

[Unchained]

Dirt's post really points it out, we are all brilliant given knowing the outcome!!
One thing that has really struck me is the economy of stage racing, but especially grand tours. If you take top 3 and see the energy and short or extended efforts, Del Toro gets 3rd from burning matches, often unnecessarily day after day.
Carapaz was doing serious intervals multiple days including long jump for stage win. But lots of energy expended.
It's funny to me that Mr. Conservative, Mr In-Control Yates wasn't always the favorite after bee stings and self inflicted crashes had favorites out of the race. So rider to rider energy use..Yates advantage.. And overall, consistency, resume, Yates better on paper than Carapaz and 17 grand tours compared to Del Toro.. One!! Obviously superior!! But for unknown reasons to me Yates on multiple fronts taken as long shot.. It hasn't made sense since Ayuso- Roglic doomsday..

 

[Sciatic]

The car made a rookie error by allowing Van Aert to have a ten minute cushion on Finestre for no reason (& zero UAE satellite riders in the breakaway either) and as icing on the disaster-cake Del Toro then proceeded to race flippantly against Carapaz.

All-in-all a mess of epic proportions that has gone down in the annals of cycling history as the day Rabofail was retired (along with "lol Movistar tactics!") and Baldatofail (or whatever people wish to assign UAE's car in terms of moniker) became the new go-to top of the class example not-to-follow in cycling management.

Excellent; the king has died, long live the king

 

[Sciatic]

I have an overwhelming feeling of "D if you don't, D if you do" here.

We saw (hindsight) what happened when he didn't, but if he would have followed (jump to) Yates and blown, he would be getting hammered for not riding smarter.

Given the nature of this forum and even moreso social media, I think you’re right. Although many here, including myself, put the onus on the team car. They were either way too laissez-faire in letting Del Toro decide how to ride, or were simply stupid and unable to change plans on the fly. As you’ve pointed out in the past, riders in the middle of a tough race can be so fatigued physically and mentally that’s it’s hard to think as quickly and accurately as they might desire. That’s what the DS is there to do for them.

 

[CyclistAbi]

A bit of a legend already.

 

[Unchained]

Del Toro has some good social media videos of him talking with Pellizzari and couple other Italians young riders he is friends with.. Some older ones of him and Wout exchanging pleasantries. I look forward to seeing Jonas and Remco crossing paths with new guy..

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/TUyxQZj2Id4

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Z06NnbnmS7A

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/SRfDR_Hlh1A

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/js5YxxlGjhI

 

[jmdirt]

As you’ve pointed out in the past, riders in the middle of a tough race can be so fatigued physically and mentally that’s it’s hard to think as quickly and accurately as they might desire. That’s what the DS is there to do for them.

This ^^, plus racers in this era don't learn to race for themselves because they aren't allowed to.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/A5u6MAm9Goo

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean (Red) Bull and (del) Toro?