Isaac Del Toro thread

[Blanco]

In my book, it's way, way better to look stupid and lose to Carapaz because you chased Yates like a madman, than lose to Yates while you didn't do literally anything to defend the leaders jersey, riding like a coward.
The boy is young, maybe he will learn. The potential is there, but he lacks a heart of a champion.

 

[Bolder]

In my book, it's way, way better to look stupid and lose to Carapaz because you chased Yates like a madman, than lose to Yates while you didn't do literally anything to defend the leaders jersey, riding like a coward.
The boy is young, maybe he will learn. The potential is there, but he lacks a heart of a champion.

They should have made him watch Thomas Voeckler turning himself inside out to defend yellow in 2011.

 

[greyclouds]

UAE DS reveals communication with Isaac del Toro on Finestre: "We tried to encourage him to keep an eye on Yates as well"

Isaac del Toro could almost feel the trophy for winner of Giro d'Italia in the palm of his hand. But then he and then Richard Carapaz suddenly gifted the victory to Simon Yates. In the descent from Co...

cyclinguptodate.com

So the pre-race instructions where to always mark Carapaz and somewhere in the middle of the climb encouragement came from the team car, keep an eye on Yates. Once.

Soon enough Baldato's words will be used in leadership courses on how not to lead a team. How can you see your ship sinking and not scream your heart out to encourage and mobilize him?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

They should have made him watch Thomas Voeckler turning himself inside out to defend yellow in 2011.

 

[Gratemans]

They should have made him watch Thomas Voeckler turning himself inside out to defend yellow in 2011.

To be fair, Voeckler always pulled a face like he was turning himself inside out.
I like to imagine he pulls the same face when he's just tying his shoelaces.

 

[scribers]

It’s really simple. IDT didn’t want to chase because he thought he would blow up on the Finestre. Was hoping to keep it close and close the gap on the finish ascent.

Carapaz didn’t want to chase because he’s already won the giro and forgot why he was even there. Wonder what Carapazs teammates think of that

 

[Red Rick]

It's very clear to me they expected to lose. I think this is also part of why Del Toro didn't look that disappointed.

 

[Extinction]

I know it's covered to death by now but still: I agree.
And yeah, the dude is 21, so we shouldn't be too hard on him but you certainly can't entirely blame it on the UAE DS's either. Some people act like this was the first time he was put on a bike, while in reality he's been a mega-talent for a while now. He certainly has experience going for GC's.
So yeah, I think it's a very reasonable expectation that with Yates extending the gap, he should have sprung to action himself at a certain point.

In an Italian interview, Fabio Baldato (DS UAE) said Del Toro was told to go after Yates when the gap was growing, but chose not to, prefering to save energy for the end. It was a fatal mistake. Even if he didn't have the legs to bridge up to Yates, he could have and should have worked with Carapaz to diminish the gap. It was the only way to save his Giro, even if he risked be attacked by Carapaz.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

It's very clear to me they expected to lose. I think this is also part of why Del Toro didn't look that disappointed.

Interesting. Do you think it's possible UAE is easing Del Toro into the next Pogacar? I mean, he has a really, really long contract.

 

[Red Rick]

Interesting. Do you think it's possible UAE is easing Del Toro into the next Pogacar? I mean, he has a really, really long contract.

No. Locking down big talent is their default strategy. It has nothing to do with being the new Pogacar. They can milk that cow for another decade.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

No. Locking down big talent is their default strategy. It has nothing to do with being the new Pogacar. They can milk that cow for another decade.

So basically UAE doesn't care if Del Toro wins or not for them, they just don't want him to win for another team.

If that is the case then I think Del Toro's contract might seem pretty sweet, but if he wants to actually win he'll have to move to another team.

 

[Red Rick]

So basically UAE doesn't care if Del Toro wins or not for them, they just don't want him to win for another team.

I think Del Toro's contract might seem pretty sweet, but if he wants to actually win he'll have to move to another team.

No, that's not it. They want to win, they care. But they also want to get superstars by signing them young rather than just buying the whole esetablished gang, so they pay top dollar for the obvious talents everyone is in for.

 

[Sciatic]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APxZNxfhL_c

So there we have it: "a Snickers and a Coke" and Del Toro would have been fine (re: Stage 16)

 

[Tricycle Rider]

So there we have it: "a Snickers and a Coke" and Del Toro would have been fine (re: Stage 16)

I laughed at that part too, Horner seems so old school, or just Horner school.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

No, that's not it. They want to win, they care. But they also want to get superstars by signing them young rather than just buying the whole esetablished gang, so they pay top dollar for the obvious talents everyone is in for.

Based on your prior statement they expected to lose though, why do you think that?

 

[Red Rick]

Based on your prior statement they expected to lose though, why do you think that?

They wanted to win, but didn't expect it would happen, so they based strategy of "Hold on for dear life to one guy" and they didn't devise a strategy that maximized opportunity for winning whatever happens.

I think they were also a bit afraid of blowing up and losing podium or whatever.

 

[Extinction]

They wanted to win, but didn't expect it would happen, so they based strategy of "Hold on for dear life to one guy" and they didn't devise a strategy that maximized opportunity for winning whatever happens.

I think they were also a bit afraid of blowing up and losing podium or whatever.

But Baldato said Del Toro was told to ride after Yates, but chose not to. So I don't think the team "didn't expect him to win," but Del Toro who was afraid of being exploited by Carapaz if pulled out the colliones to chase down Yates.

 

[Red Rick]

But Baldato said Del Toro was told to ride after Yates, but chose not to. So I don't think the team "didn't expect him to win," but Del Toro who was afraid of being exploited by Carapaz if pulled out the colliones to chase down Yates.

Once, apparently.

Like, the whole framing they do is like "we did a great Giro, Isaac is so young, yadayda" they try so hard to frame this Giro like a gigantic W.

The strategy to let Van Aert go in the break and then follow Carapaz when he's committing harakiri in the first 5 minutes of that climb - it just makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Sciatic]

I laughed at that part too, Horner seems so old school, or just Horner school.

So true! I did think that was one of his more interesting ones, in laying out the full scope of UAE missteps and outright bad judgment thoughout the course of the whole race. Though man does he ever like to beat a dead horse: I'd be passed out if I had "Wout Van Aert" in a drinking game for that segment!

 

[Salvarani]

Once, apparently.

Like, the whole framing they do is like "we did a great Giro, Isaac is so young, yadayda" they try so hard to frame this Giro like a gigantic W.

The strategy to let Van Aert go in the break and then follow Carapaz when he's committing harakiri in the first 5 minutes of that climb - it just makes no sense whatsoever.

You are rewriting history and thats your interpretation of how they are trying to frame it according to your narrative.

To me it seem quite normal to be positive about their young rider. That he almost won and that future prospects looks good. Showing grace in defeat.

It was always gonna be hard to stop Van Aert from going in the break on this stage. They only had 5 helpers left, mostly climbers. Who would they sacrifice in their team to mark him or make sure he didnt get in the break? Pulling all day to manage the gap?

They didnt know what EF or Carapaz had planned for the beginning of the climb. How should they have countered that? Please enlighten us with your wisdom.

 

[zlev11]

anyone else think maybe del Toro was pissed that UAE didn't chase the break down enough? giving WVA 10 minutes was suicide. if they held it to even 7 minutes he probably doesn't get over the top before the GC riders. once Yates had a gap with WVA up the road it was over even if del Toro rode his ass off. either way, EF and UAE tactics make no sense and Visma's were flawless. it also helps to randomly have the strongest rider in the race who did absolutely nothing for the first 19 days, so nobody expects it.

 

[Extinction]

Once, apparently.

Like, the whole framing they do is like "we did a great Giro, Isaac is so young, yadayda" they try so hard to frame this Giro like a gigantic W.

The strategy to let Van Aert go in the break and then follow Carapaz when he's committing harakiri in the first 5 minutes of that climb - it just makes no sense whatsoever.

Baldado said in an Italian interview that the team was super disappointed Del Toro didn't win, only taking consolation in the fact he is so young and rode so well. However, they thought he was going to win. It was a huge mistake to let Van Aert in the break without putting one of their own riders in it too or else containing it to six minutes or so.

 

[Red Rick]

anyone else think maybe del Toro was pissed that UAE didn't chase the break down enough? giving WVA 10 minutes was suicide. if they held it to even 7 minutes he probably doesn't get over the top before the GC riders. once Yates had a gap with WVA up the road it was over even if del Toro rode his ass off. either way, EF and UAE tactics make no sense and Visma's were flawless. it also helps to randomly have the strongest rider in the race who did absolutely nothing for the first 19 days, so nobody expects it.

The only reason to let Van Aert in there is if you think Carapaz might get away and you just stick to Yates and watch Van Aert mow down Carapaz for you.

 

[Sciatic]

He didn’t take a single turn on the ascent as the race lead was slipping away, when he had a more than willing partner and former Giro winner in Carapaz. Instead he softpedalled for 40 k…I hear a lot of blame heaped on UAE DSs, that he’s a young rider, needs coaching in that situation etc, but I don’t buy that. It was an easy tactical call to work with Carapaz and he blew it 100%. Carapaz and EF did what they needed to do to win.

As the song goes DT seems to thought it was better to fade away than burn out.

I think what you're suggesting is possible--that Del Toro just mentally dropped the ball or didn't have any. We'll probably never know. But I still lean toward putting more of the blame on UAE, because we saw in week's 1 and 2 that Del Toro always followed team instructions (to support Ayuso), and did so even when he had to know it was costing him opportunities for additional stage wins and a bigger lead in GC. Seemed like throughout the race he did exactly what they told him even when it wasn't the best strategy.

 

[Sciatic]

Soon enough Baldato's words will be used in leadership courses on how not to lead a team. How can you see your ship sinking and not scream your heart out to encourage and mobilize him?

Exactly. Honestly, even if true, Baldato saying he instructed him once, and only once, to start working and then still just let Del Toro decide what was better puts his DS actions in an even worse light.