Isaac Del Toro thread

[AlfaLum]

14th win of the season and 8th one-day race won! King of under 200 km races.

He should be happy this race wasnt one kilometer longer.

 

[Cycling111]

When someone mentions my opinions, I would appreciate it if they read the entire message .

In my message, I predict that Del Toro will win all these races for Italy. Rubbing in the Giro di Emilia thread that he won is absurd when I myself said he would win. LOL

The message wasn't about his chances of winning this week. Should read the full messages. Thanks.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He should be happy this race wasnt one kilometer longer.

At 200 km he would get stomach issues (like in WC), hunger knock, ebola or whatever...but he's the king under 200 km.

 

[Lequack]

So is he the next Eddie Merckx? Did anyone in the past have a better rookies season than Del Toro?

 

[Cycling111]

So is he the next Eddie Merckx? Did anyone in the past have a better rookies season than Del Toro?

This isn't Del Toro's rookie season, it's his second. Pogacar won the Tour in his second year.

In his Rookie year, Del Toro won a stage in TDU and Asturias. Pogacar was on the podium at the Vuelta with three mountain stages, Algarve, California.

The one who's in Rookie's year is Brennan; I think he'll also beat Del Toro's 2024.
But It'll be difficult to do that in his second year.

 

[Cookster15]

Google AI Overview tells me this when I ask is isaac del toro a neo pro:

Yes, Isaac del Toro is a neo-pro, having started his professional cycling career in 2024 with UAE Team Emirates and immediately making a significant impact

As Toby replied to me I doubt we could say he is still a neo pro. But he isn't far off.

The way he just won Giro dell'Emilia bridging the gap to Pidcock from the elite chasing group on San Luca was very impressive.

 

[Lequack]

And he mostly lose the Giro because of tactics, he was clearly the strongest.

 

[Red Rick]

And he mostly lose the Giro because of tactics, he was clearly the strongest.

If he was clearly the strongest than he's also clearly the dumbest rider to ever race at the pro level.

 

[YavorD]

And he mostly lose the Giro because of tactics, he was clearly the strongest.

I somehow doubt that. He was really struggling on the tough multi mountain stages (Finestre before Finestre wasn't tough).
Put Recta Contador and I think he is a minute behind Carapaz on the top.
And I don't think he was all that strong on Finestre either. So far this season he is giving all the impressions of a reborn Valverde.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

If he was clearly the strongest than he's also clearly the dumbest rider to ever race at the pro level.

Came here to see how Red Rick would disrespect del Toro after today's win. (true story) Wasn't disqppointed.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I somehow doubt that. He was really struggling on the tough multi mountain stages (Finestre before Finestre wasn't tough).
Put Recta Contador and I think he is a minute behind Carapaz on the top.
And I don't think he was all that strong on Finestre either. So far this season he is giving all the impressions of a reborn Valverde.

Hey, no Clinic talk...

 

[Cookster15]

If he was clearly the strongest than he's also clearly the dumbest rider to ever race at the pro level.

A bit harsh? The strongest rider not winning is hardly rare, in fact that is the beauty of cycling. And he’s only 21.

 

[AlfaLum]

By now I would argue that he is the third best rider in the world for the harder hilly one day races in the world.

And I think he is top-5 when it comes to riding GCs in one week and GTs, but i guess that is still highly debatable based on the evidence so far.

Anyway amazing performances by Del Toro this year and for me in terms of attractiveness it is one of the most entertaining riders to Watch. If, like Pogacar, he manages to build up his endurance the next seasons he will win many big races.

 

[Red Rick]

Came here to see how Red Rick would disrespect del Toro after today's win. (true story) Wasn't disqppointed.

It's not a disrespect to Del Toro. It's me deservedly ridiculing the idea that he was the strongest rider in the Giro when he got dropped on each of the 3 hardest raced big climbs of the race.

I think it's actually less disrepectful to think he was 3rd best in the race than to think he was a complete moron. For the life of me I cannot understand the line of reasoning that goes almost like : "He was winning the Giro then he decided to just throw it away for the lulz, he's my favorite rider now"

If anything it gets super hard to like Del Toro simply based on the insanity of the hype he's getting way before he's earned it. And then even the niche he's shown to be truly world class it any chance of excitement is taken away by the fact that he's on UAE so he'll never race against Pogacar.

 

[Salvarani]

I dont need salt when cooking later after reading that.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's not a disrespect to Del Toro. It's me deservedly ridiculing the idea that he was the strongest rider in the Giro when he got dropped on each of the 3 hardest raced big climbs of the race.

I think it's actually less disrepectful to think he was 3rd best in the race than to think he was a complete moron. For the life of me I cannot understand the line of reasoning that goes almost like : "He was winning the Giro then he decided to just throw it away for the lulz, he's my favorite rider now"

If anything it gets super hard to like Del Toro simply based on the insanity of the hype he's getting way before he's earned it. And then even the niche he's shown to be truly world class it any chance of excitement is taken away by the fact that he's on UAE so he'll never race against Pogacar.

Funny how you didn't mention how many times he gained time on the Giro winner.

 

[Red Rick]

Funny how you didn't mention how many times he gained time on the Giro winner.

Because it wasn't on the most decisive moments in the race, it was punchy climbs for a few seconds each every time.

It's basically unanimously agreed Roglic wasn't the strongest rider in the 2020 Vuelta when he won it due to the ITT and accumulated time bonuses, and in that race he won 4 stages but got dropped 3 times, and twice it was for 20s and once it was for 45s.

Meanwhile Del Toro wins 1 stage, gets dropped by 7 guys and losing over 1'30 on San Valentino, then gets dropped on the Mortirolo by 7 guys, but does come back, and then on the Finestre he ships 1'45 on the climb and then another 3'15 because he refuses to take a single pull, and somehow I'm to believe he's the strongest?

So in all, not mentioning it isn't really funny but the sheer delusion of the narrative about this Giro is.

 

[SafeBet]

I've seen him do it a number of times now but the ability to pace himself and manage his effort still impresses me. The only time this season he overcommitted was stage 16 of the Giro. I still think he was on the limit on Finestre and probably scared to make the same mistake he made in stage 16.

The comparison with Valverde is very sound (and that's where I understand why Rick thinks he's overrated) and I believe he'd be an instant candidate for LBL had he raced it in the 2010s.

 

[Red Rick]

I've seen him do it a number of times now but the ability to pace himself and manage his effort still impresses me. The only time this season he overcommitted was stage 16 of the Giro. I still think he was on the limit on Finestre and probably scared to make the same mistake he made in stage 16.

The comparison with Valverde is very sound (and that's where I understand why Rick thinks he's overrated) and I believe he'd be an instant candidate for LBL had he raced it in the 2010s.

No I think the Valverde comparison makes all the sense in the world in terms of rider type, with the exception that Valverde was actually very good in long classics.

But riders are also a product of their time and and just pulling them and plugging them into a different era just isn't quite fair to riders of the past because Van der Poel, Van Aert and Pogacar could make a decent case for winning all 5 monuements in a year in 2010 and even then I'm not talking about raw watts.

 

[Cycling111]

I agree. I discussed it in Pogacar's thread. For me, Del Toro is very similar to Ayuso, and both are similar to Valverde. The only difference is that they haven't yet proven themselves capable of winning Monument-distance races or world championships.
And they need to prove they're Tour riders. Both have generated the same doubts in GT. And Del Toro isn't losing the Giro just because of tactics. In one of the toughest stages, he's far inferior to Carapaz, and Simon was also stronger than Del Toro. And in Finestre, I think he couldn't do anymore.

And we're talking about Carapaz and Simon Yates in decline. It has nothing to do with Pogacar's 2020 Tour, which he won against the best rider in the world in that moment. And he won that Tour alone in a mediocre UAE; Del Toro had the best team at the Giro.

But in the end, while it's easy to see this about Del Toro, we also have to admit that Roglic wouldn't have won the Tours that are attributed to him, nor the Vuelta this year.

By the way, because of these qualities, I think the best GT for Del Toro is the Vuelta, as it's for Ayuso, Valverde, and Roglic. And if we look at the stages alone, Jay Vine finds the Vuelta stages ideal, not the Giro and i don't see hin in french roads.

I think Jarno Widar will be another rider who reminds us of Valverde. I have doubts about his endurance in the longer races or the Tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I've seen him do it a number of times now but the ability to pace himself and manage his effort still impresses me. The only time this season he overcommitted was stage 16 of the Giro. I still think he was on the limit on Finestre and probably scared to make the same mistake he made in stage 16.

The comparison with Valverde is very sound (and that's where I understand why Rick thinks he's overrated) and I believe he'd be an instant candidate for LBL had he raced it in the 2010s.

Redrick talks like he is at his ceilling and he is not. Last year he didn't win these semi classics, nowadays he is winning all of them. He is not quite there in long classics but I don't have any doubt he has what it takes to be good in the future. The same can be said in long mountains.

 

[Cycling111]

By now I would argue that he is the third best rider in the world for the harder hilly one day races in the world.

And I think he is top-5 when it comes to riding GCs in one week and GTs, but i guess that is still highly debatable based on the evidence so far.

Anyway amazing performances by Del Toro this year and for me in terms of attractiveness it is one of the most entertaining riders to Watch. If, like Pogacar, he manages to build up his endurance the next seasons he will win many big races.

If the race is less than 250 kilometers, yes.
The same thing was said about Ayuso after winning Faun Ardeche.

Skjelmose won an Amstel against Pogacar and Remco, and he had more endurance at the world championships. Would you consider him worse? He probably is worse in a race like Emilia, but if we include the long races, it's an important factor.

If we include short races exclusively, Ayuso may be better than Ben Healy. But he's not when the race is long.

 

[Blanco]

Yep, looks a lot like Valverde. He even won Emilia yesterday like Valverde would, he waited and waited, then late surge, and then final sprint. Although endurance is not there yet, and Valverde had that from day one.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Del Toro lost out on a great chance of scoring a Giro victory because UAE had told him he was riding 21 Italian one-day races. He didn't know there was a GC going on, so when he felt he could no longer win the Coppa delle Finestre he simply gave up. He will have learned a lot from that experience. He's obviously not only an exciting prospect for the future by now, but one of the stronger riders out there. We'll see in the coming years whether he's an early bloomer or if he'll keep improving. He has 4 years left of his current contract, so he'll have to think carefully about his next moves.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

It's not a disrespect to Del Toro. It's me deservedly ridiculing the idea that he was the strongest rider in the Giro when he got dropped on each of the 3 hardest raced big climbs of the race.

I think it's actually less disrepectful to think he was 3rd best in the race than to think he was a complete moron. For the life of me I cannot understand the line of reasoning that goes almost like : "He was winning the Giro then he decided to just throw it away for the lulz, he's my favorite rider now"

If anything it gets super hard to like Del Toro simply based on the insanity of the hype he's getting way before he's earned it. And then even the niche he's shown to be truly world class it any chance of excitement is taken away by the fact that he's on UAE so he'll never race against Pogacar.

Doubling down, its a bold strategy Cotton, lets see if it pays off for him...