Isaac Del Toro thread

[AlfaLum]

I don’t think that was the point—I assumed the discussion was “which rider does he remind you of” not who was/will be the better rider.

Yeah I am not debating who is the better rider here, makes no sense as Del Toro is just in the early days of his career.

But I just do not understand the comparison, because they have only a relatively small overlap in their skillset, being that they are both good on higher gradients and have superb explosiveness. And maybe you can say that they both have a weakness in the high mountains, but I would argue that is way too early to tell for Del Toro, as he also performed well in >2000 altitude stages in Avenir for example.

But besides that:

- Rodriguez was always on the backfoot in one week races when there was a TT involved and hardly won a GC as a result of it. Del Toro is rather good at TTs and gains time on most competitors already

- Del Toro has already shown he can also power away on shallow gradients and has done it multiple times. Rodriguez really never had that.

- Del Toro is more than capable of pulling a good solo because he is good at pacing himself on the flat. Rodriguez never had that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Riders don't develop at the same rate.

Like by the same logic I can claim Rodriguez only had 2 years of peak climbing and Del Toro will thus be washed by 2027.

Terrible argument. What he's saying is its completely disingenious, flat out wrong or even just plain dumb to say that Del Toro is terrible at +200 km and then at the same time say Rodirguez excelled at it. It took Purito until late 00's to be a relevant player in these kind of races in his late 20's while Del Toro already top-10 mulitple increidbly hard one day races.

 

[Sciatic]

Yeah I am not debating who is the better rider here, makes no sense as Del Toro is just in the early days of his career.

But I just do not understand the comparison, because they have only a relatively small overlap in their skillset, being that they are both good on higher gradients and have superb explosiveness. And maybe you can say that they both have a weakness in the high mountains, but I would argue that is way too early to tell for Del Toro, as he also performed well in >2000 altitude stages in Avenir for example.

But besides that:

- Rodriguez was always on the backfoot in one week races when there was a TT involved and hardly won a GC as a result of it. Del Toro is rather good at TTs and gains time on most competitors already

- Del Toro has already shown he can also power away on shallow gradients and has done it multiple times. Rodriguez really never had that.

- Del Toro is more than capable of pulling a good solo because he is good at pacing himself on the flat. Rodriguez never had that.

I wasn’t making the comparison—I was just suggesting that it wasn’t serious analysis of rider’s capabilities.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No, he's not ready to take on pogi or Jonas. He's a free leader in all races where Pogi and Almeida don't race.

I don't know about Almeida still being ahead in the hierarchy at UAE and on top of that there will be a lot of racing with Pogi. So i guess Pogi is now the only step to take if wanting to take a step further.

Great win and continuing season for Del Toro on his track to building a stellar career.


@CyclistAbi

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/-KaR2mmifk0?si=84_Kr51gAUfOLPTL

Personally i would prefer it more if Rogla would win TA and would beat Isaac and the rest while doing that. The rest is less enjoyable for me.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Riders don't develop at the same rate.

Like by the same logic I can claim Rodriguez only had 2 years of peak climbing and Del Toro will thus be washed by 2027.

Purito’s biggest weakness was his inconsistency which took a long time for him to get better at. He was also criticized that he couldn’t handle multiple climbs or length. After many years he was able to put it all together while still tanking the TT. Del Toro has plenty of time to grow and is already doing better than Purito.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/iY5-ZK7Sj8A


A little Italian in his adopted love

 

[Pantani_lives]

They should send him to La Flèche Wallonne.

 

[James M]

@CyclistAbi So Del Toro continue to beat every Redbull contender easily and he hasnt even gone to altitude yet, is there anyone left? I guess Lipo.

I think Remco, Roglic, Pelizzari etc are thrilled to face Pogacar when even Del Toro his pupil plays with em. Thoughts?

 

[Pantani_lives]

He has already overtaken Raúl Alcalá and Julio Alberto Pérez Cuapio as the best Mexican cyclist of all time.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8sWcCYKLz8


Even for non Spanish speakers these two accents are awesome and you see how much more relaxed Isaac is with the female reporter

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/8-WcDKEp3q8


This has some strange music...?

 

[Unchained]

He has already overtaken Raúl Alcalá and Julio Alberto Pérez Cuapio as the best Mexican cyclist of all time.

Alcala had 23 wins, all things equal, he had lots of wins in the US.. He had an excellent career.

 

[hayneplane]

Having a great start to the season. Winning even though he said h was a little disappointed with his form suggests there is plenty of room for development ahead of the bigger races to come.

 

[James M]

He was for a total of 2 seasons.

I'm more talking about the way that he climbs, in that he loves the stop/start climbing and he seems to have that bit of steeper = always better going on.

lets talk about how your new favorite rider Del Toro reminds you of Contador, copy pasta in both his climbing style(dancing up right for minutes when he goes)and way of climbing in spurts.

Pogacar eating Roglic alive 19.09.2020 shouldnt prevent you from seeing that, zero correlations

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations on winning Tirreno Adriatico.

@CyclistAbi So Del Toro continue to beat every Redbull contender easily and he hasnt even gone to altitude yet, is there anyone left? I guess Lipo.

Indeed a bit worrisome for RBH, that nobody managed to beat second in command at UAE yet.

I think Remco, Roglic, Pelizzari etc are thrilled to face Pogacar when even Del Toro his pupil plays with em. Thoughts?

My idea was to join forces and to play with del Toro to lure out Pogi. They didn't do that and now Pogi doesn't even think about them. He likely is questioning himself should i really wait for del Toro to start an attack, or should i just crush him from the get go.

P.S. If RBH wants for Pogi to think about their riders, then obvisuly mentioned riders must beat Isaac first.

 

[veganrob]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8sWcCYKLz8


Even for non Spanish speakers these two accents are awesome and you see how much more relaxed Isaac is with the female reporter

That young man is going to win a lot of races in his career.

 

[Squire]

Purito and Del Toro are just very different riders. Purito was more or less a one trick pony who, when he was at his peak, could climb and win the hardest hilly/mountanious classics with the best of them. Del Toro is just a lot more versatile than that and definitely reminds me a lot more about Valverde than Purito

For me he's also quite Valverde-esque in a lot of ways. Both are great in medium mountains/hills, amazing sprint, slightly suspect in the big mountain stages (low sample-size for Del Toro, mind), good to very good TT at their best, not always spot on tactically, capable rouleurs, consistently in good shape. One difference is that Del Toro doesn't look as good as Valverde on a bike. He has better hair though.

For now I think Valverde is a better comparison than Pogacar (and definitely better than Purito). Especially if he can show that he's properly suited to monument-length classics and can actually bag a GT. Both those things are likely. Then he needs to add a few more things on top of that to be able to claim the Pog skillset.

 

[SafeBet]

For me he's also quite Valverde-esque in a lot of ways. Both are great in medium mountains/hills, amazing sprint, slightly suspect in the big mountain stages (low sample-size for Del Toro, mind), good to very good TT at their best, not always spot on tactically, capable rouleurs, consistently in good shape. One difference is that Del Toro doesn't look as good as Valverde on a bike. He has better hair though.

For now I think Valverde is a better comparison than Pogacar (and definitely better than Purito). Especially if he can show that he's properly suited to monument-length classics and can actually bag a GT. Both those things are likely. Then he needs to add a few more things on top of that to be able to claim the Pog skillset.

Sound analysis. I would argue Del Toro actually looks better than Bala on a bike, especially when TTing, but that's just down to personal taste.

 

[Squire]

I would argue Del Toro actually looks better than Bala on a bike

No way! Del Toro is like an A440 equal temperament pitch corrected modern pop song with studio gimmicks like narrow handlebars, aero helmet and skinsuit. Valverde is a passionately crafted classic with natural vocals and meaningful lyrics.

 

[Unchained]

No way! Del Toro is like an A440 equal temperament pitch corrected modern pop song with studio gimmicks like narrow handlebars, aero helmet and skinsuit. Valverde is a passionately crafted classic with natural vocals and meaningful lyrics.

Wouldn't Valverde be more of an old school rock and roll tune, you know sex, drugs, apparently lots of drugs and rock'n' roll

 

[Red Rick]

Sound analysis. I would argue Del Toro actually looks better than Bala on a bike, especially when TTing, but that's just down to personal taste.

That's also just a difference in time. Bad TTers of today have better looking positions than good ones from way back when

 

[aphronesis]

No way! Del Toro is like an A440 equal temperament pitch corrected modern pop song with studio gimmicks like narrow handlebars, aero helmet and skinsuit. Valverde is a passionately crafted classic with natural vocals and meaningful lyrics.

Maybe Bala stayed younger that way.

 

[Unchained]

That's also just a difference in time. Bad TTers of today have better looking positions than good ones from way back when

I don't have many videos or photos of Del Toro TT position before signing with UAE but his pre pro road bike position has him way way back behind the bob. I would say that they have moved his position much further forward towards the bottom bracket and I he is riding a 140 -150+ stem length even with sweeping bar design used on the Y bikes..

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Q6a9Y2YodDk

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMAJNzB5900&pp=ygUSIERlbCBUb3JvIGJpY3ljbGVz

To me the sweep handlebar design appears to have a crazy long distance from steerer tube to the actual top section and even more extreme distance to shifter hoods..
Yesteryear lots of triathletes had the very forward position , some even using a seat post that was bent to achieve it.. with an extreme forward offset..

 

[Lorzenz08]

1st UAE Tour
3rd SB
1st Tirreno

Indeed amazing start for Torito

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yes I have him as my number 2 all around rider right now, ahead of Remco and behind Pogi. Classics + stage racing he’s a beast. Unclear if he can reach Vingegaard in GTs, likely will never be on MvDPs level in cobbles, and surely will never TT like Remco, but he is a helluva all rounder.

All rounders:

1. Pogi
2. Del Toro
3. Remco
4. Seixas (pending further stage racing)