Itzulia Basque Country 2024, April 1-6

[noob]

Not to be a noob but top GC riders being younger and younger won't help with risk aversion!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I already loved on Bilbao in this thread for what he said. I don't know about Benji

It's just it was interesting if Jonas had warned about that curve beforehand yet he went that fast into it :O

If Jonas was warned directly and ignored the warnings then he has to take some culpability. If Jonas was warned indirectly and the message was not passed on to him by the team or whoever then that's irresponsible. And if Jonas wasn't warned and somebody is lying to try to gain clout off of their pronouncements after the fact then that's ghoulish.

I think the people involved, or rather the team involved in the highest profile injury victims of a couple of the crashes recently helps explain why Benji's opinions are strong on the subject.

 

[Izzyeviel]

just seen the crash, was that supposed to be a crash barrier that they all missed?

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775990703035715774

 

[Scarponi]

Would the attention be as great if it were three Caja Rural riders and not the TDF favourites?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I turned in this morning, about 10 minutes after it happened, and the images I first saw were of a non-moving Vingegaard and a non-moving Vine. I was really concerned that they might be in a life-threatening situation. It sucked.

 

[Taxus4a]

I will be Tomorrow at Vitoria, but if I want to see the stars as I planned maybe I should go to the hospital.
Sad day for cycling. They get that corner really fast. I would like to Talk with Landa Tomorrow becouse he was comanding the descent, but tomorrow at his land I think there is no way. I hope in the future anyway.
A crash with consecuences for all the season.

Cyclist are going too fast today, mainly for that ultraero equipment and bikes, and they go almost naked... I dont know the solución but cycling need a reflexión.

 

[zlev11]

Would the attention be as great if it were three Caja Rural riders and not the TDF favourites?

absolutely not. i argued this earlier in the thread and was harassed for it. kirby would've been doing casual racism 3 minutes later.

 

[Extinction]

What exactly were they supposed to warn them?

"Just so you guys know, there's a corner up ahead which might be a bit bumpy. It's a nondescript right-hander with no adverse features on a road which is plenty wide enough, but if you are going way too fast for the descent then there's not much run-off and it's potentially pretty grim if you miss the corner. We've put a yellow caution sign up before it."

The riders were going too fast for the descent, and because the race had been less selective (because of a combination of a less selective parcours and the péloton going slow on the climb) there was a bigger péloton than might ordinarily be expected on a descent of that nature".

Could the organisers have done more about the culvert and the boulders? Definitely. Was the fact the crash occurred the organisers' fault? Absolutely not. Whenever any of these issues come up, the assumption is always that the organisers are to blame, but riders have to actually shoulder some responsibility for the risks that they take sometimes. This was just a racing incident, but because of a few other high profile incidents in recent history, emotions are running high and tempers flaring.

Did not a rider from the break almost vear off the course at that very curve (Oldmanish, I think, at any rate, seemed to imply this)? So, it should have been evident to the race officialls that that bend was more hazzardous than it seemed and sounded a warning. Indeed, with that culvert and those boulders, someone should have been stationed there with red flag motioning to slow down. That's being professional. As it was, the organization showed an egregious dilettantism unworthy of its leadership responsibilities.

 

[johnymax]

Patrick himself has said one of the reasons he's hired by teams is that he watches every race. (Few does since they don't have time for that.)

I was convinced every member of this forum watches every race.

 

[Extinction]

No, not really, compared to the race continuing on, say, stage 3 of the 2011 Giro.

But the fact of the matter was, the bunch was not up for racing, the organisers arranged for them to restart once everything was safe again, but had they done that the riders would just have done a go-slow and a self-policed neutralisation, so the organisers - as they always do - just said, sod it, let's give the riders what they want because it's better they skip a few kilometres of racing today and don't withdraw en masse. What they'd gain from restarting the race was not worth the hassle it would have caused in the long run.

But absurdly they allowed the break to race for an untimed stage win. What bafoons. Why did they not just call the whole show off? Nobody cared anymore about a stage winner.

 

[saunaking]

Now I'm going to have to find some videos that I never would have watched otherwise.

Manic has a fetish for calf muscles???

 

[jmdirt]

On a more human level: two JV riders came back quickly to check on Jonas and do what they could. One of them (I think it was Kuss) then moved to helping an EF rider, still in the trench and then moved to help several other riders including a check-in on Roglic who appeared "OK" in the trench. I think they care how this occurred.

These guys all live the same battle, that was a nice gesture for sure.

On another note, that really doesn't mean anything to the much larger situation here, on the CN cover page they list JV with a collarbone break, but RE with a clavicle break. Same bone.

 

[jmdirt]

Here's one thing that would've helped: One of the the riders in the break executed a bailout into the trees, on camera. He rejoined the break that had a lead of 2:20 at that time. Why in the Holiest of fu*cks wasn't there a response to the field and cars to alert the main field!!!! There's motos with cameras in front of the field and some sort of slowdown could've been transmitted. Oh wait; all of the riders have earpieces for....safety. This was avoidable and I'm sure the DS of the rider that regained the break knew what happened.

On a more human level: two JV riders came back quickly to check on Jonas and do what they could. One of them (I think it was Kuss) then moved to helping an EF rider, still in the trench and then moved to help several other riders including a check-in on Roglic who appeared "OK" in the trench. I think they care how this occurred.

Not Kuss:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuk8uQjlRbo

 

[fbjim]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775934756405887401

View: https://twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1775934756405887401


I know you all hate Benji but this was interesting :O

To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.

I frankly find this kind of implication appalling on Benji's part, that, if only they had listened to this org that nobody had heard of until now, this wouldn't have happened.

 

[saunaking]

because Vingegaard was pretending to be paralyzed,

lol c'mon dude.

Its still on Flo in Canada.

 

[saunaking]

To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.

I frankly find this kind of implication appalling on Benji's part, that, if only they had listened to this org that nobody had heard of until now, this wouldn't have happened.

I agree with you and all this kind of wailing is going to result in the loss of beautiful historic races that dont have deep pockets or generate a lot of money.
We will end up with the tour and a bunch of GCN videos where presenters ride around with pros and get boners looking at the power meter numbers

 

[Berniece]

To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.

I frankly find this kind of implication appalling on Benji's part, that, if only they had listened to this org that nobody had heard of until now, this wouldn't have happened.

According to Sporza Vingegaard discussed this specific descent with SafeCycling. The organizers just never responded and listened to SafeCycling. Reason to lose your WT status imo.

 

[Barkintheeye]

I wouldn't be so sure. Wout has the same kind of injury and he's still not ruled out the Giro, which is much sooner.

I am sure that both of them will be able to race within 8 weeks but it’s much more questionable that they will be able to perform. . A few percent off peak performance means no chance for podiums.

 

[Sciatic]

But absurdly they allowed the break to race for an untimed stage win. What bafoons. Why did they not just call the whole show off? Nobody cared anymore about a stage winner.

They had to ride to the finish anyways might as well race. I’ve worked long enough (45 yrs) that inevitably some tragedies occur when at work: the death of a co-workers immediate family member, a horrible accident, and (when I worked as a ranger) the death of a fellow ranger. I was always initially dumbfounded and shut down. I could have gone home. But once I started moving again it felt like the most basic, grounding thing to do was get back to work, at least for a bit. These riders are at work when they’re racing, why wouldn’t they (the breakaway) just get back to work and race to the finish. As long as they don’t do a flamboyant celebration, there’s no disrespect in that.

 

[Extinction]

They had to ride to the finish anyways might as well race. I’ve worked long enough (45 yrs) that inevitably some tragedies occur when at work: the death of a co-workers immediate family member, a horrible accident, and (when I worked as a ranger) the death of a fellow ranger. I was always initially dumbfounded and shut down. I could have gone home. But once I started moving again it felt like the most basic, grounding thing to do was get back to work, at least for a bit. These riders are at work when they’re racing, why wouldn’t they (the breakaway) just get back to work and race to the finish. As long as they don’t do a flamboyant celebration, there’s no disrespect in that.

That they would all ride to the finish was already a means of "working through" the trauma. But why have the whole field neutralized and say to the break essentially, "you guys race for the win, but nobody will be timed"? Frankly, that's absurd. What's the point? Was anyone still interested in the "outcome" of the stage? With the three big GC guys out and a field neutralized? It makes no sense and seems like those running the show were keystone cops.

 

[tobydawq]

That they would all ride to the finish was already a means of "working through" the trauma. But why have the whole field neutralized and say to the break essentially, "you guys race for the win, but nobody will be timed"? Frankly, that's absurd. What's the point? Was anyone still interested in the "outcome" of the stage? With the three big GC guys out and a field neutralized? It makes no sense and seems like those running the show were keystone cops.

Of course the breakaway riders were interested in the chance of winning a stage in a WorldTour race.

 

[search]

Not sure what do expect today, especially with most main contenders a bit battered. There's a hard climb in the middle, but the finish isn't too tough. Here are the final 16k:

Itzulia 2024 Stage 5 Finish

Itzulia 2024 Stage 5 Finish - 16.6 km, +353 m. Bike ride in Amorebieta-Echano, País Vasco/Euskadi

ridewithgps.com

Too easy for the GC guys, I think, but potentially too hard a stage for the "sprinters". So on paper, a good chance for the breakaway. And could also be a bit chaotic, with no clear GC favorite left.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

First use of the legend that is Urkiola in a men's race since 2011 and this is what they do with it...

 

[Extinction]

Of course the breakaway riders were interested in the chance of winning a stage in a WorldTour race.

But what value does winning a stage have when the field was neutralized behind? Zero