If Jonas was warned directly and ignored the warnings then he has to take some culpability. If Jonas was warned indirectly and the message was not passed on to him by the team or whoever then that's irresponsible. And if Jonas wasn't warned and somebody is lying to try to gain clout off of their pronouncements after the fact then that's ghoulish.I already loved on Bilbao in this thread for what he said. I don't know about Benji
It's just it was interesting if Jonas had warned about that curve beforehand yet he went that fast into it :O
Would the attention be as great if it were three Caja Rural riders and not the TDF favourites?
Did not a rider from the break almost vear off the course at that very curve (Oldmanish, I think, at any rate, seemed to imply this)? So, it should have been evident to the race officialls that that bend was more hazzardous than it seemed and sounded a warning. Indeed, with that culvert and those boulders, someone should have been stationed there with red flag motioning to slow down. That's being professional. As it was, the organization showed an egregious dilettantism unworthy of its leadership responsibilities.What exactly were they supposed to warn them?
"Just so you guys know, there's a corner up ahead which might be a bit bumpy. It's a nondescript right-hander with no adverse features on a road which is plenty wide enough, but if you are going way too fast for the descent then there's not much run-off and it's potentially pretty grim if you miss the corner. We've put a yellow caution sign up before it."
The riders were going too fast for the descent, and because the race had been less selective (because of a combination of a less selective parcours and the péloton going slow on the climb) there was a bigger péloton than might ordinarily be expected on a descent of that nature".
Could the organisers have done more about the culvert and the boulders? Definitely. Was the fact the crash occurred the organisers' fault? Absolutely not. Whenever any of these issues come up, the assumption is always that the organisers are to blame, but riders have to actually shoulder some responsibility for the risks that they take sometimes. This was just a racing incident, but because of a few other high profile incidents in recent history, emotions are running high and tempers flaring.
I was convinced every member of this forum watches every race.Patrick himself has said one of the reasons he's hired by teams is that he watches every race. (Few does since they don't have time for that.)
But absurdly they allowed the break to race for an untimed stage win. What bafoons. Why did they not just call the whole show off? Nobody cared anymore about a stage winner.No, not really, compared to the race continuing on, say, stage 3 of the 2011 Giro.
But the fact of the matter was, the bunch was not up for racing, the organisers arranged for them to restart once everything was safe again, but had they done that the riders would just have done a go-slow and a self-policed neutralisation, so the organisers - as they always do - just said, sod it, let's give the riders what they want because it's better they skip a few kilometres of racing today and don't withdraw en masse. What they'd gain from restarting the race was not worth the hassle it would have caused in the long run.
Manic has a fetish for calf muscles???Now I'm going to have to find some videos that I never would have watched otherwise.
These guys all live the same battle, that was a nice gesture for sure.On a more human level: two JV riders came back quickly to check on Jonas and do what they could. One of them (I think it was Kuss) then moved to helping an EF rider, still in the trench and then moved to help several other riders including a check-in on Roglic who appeared "OK" in the trench. I think they care how this occurred.
Not Kuss:Here's one thing that would've helped: One of the the riders in the break executed a bailout into the trees, on camera. He rejoined the break that had a lead of 2:20 at that time. Why in the Holiest of fu*cks wasn't there a response to the field and cars to alert the main field!!!! There's motos with cameras in front of the field and some sort of slowdown could've been transmitted. Oh wait; all of the riders have earpieces for....safety. This was avoidable and I'm sure the DS of the rider that regained the break knew what happened.
On a more human level: two JV riders came back quickly to check on Jonas and do what they could. One of them (I think it was Kuss) then moved to helping an EF rider, still in the trench and then moved to help several other riders including a check-in on Roglic who appeared "OK" in the trench. I think they care how this occurred.
To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.View: https://twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1775934756405887401
I know you all hate Benji but this was interesting :O
lol c'mon dude.because Vingegaard was pretending to be paralyzed,
I agree with you and all this kind of wailing is going to result in the loss of beautiful historic races that dont have deep pockets or generate a lot of money.To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.
I frankly find this kind of implication appalling on Benji's part, that, if only they had listened to this org that nobody had heard of until now, this wouldn't have happened.
According to Sporza Vingegaard discussed this specific descent with SafeCycling. The organizers just never responded and listened to SafeCycling. Reason to lose your WT status imo.To answer a few replies to this, nothing in the blurb implies that Vingegaard or whoever these guys are, were warned about this specific corner. Instead we have Vingegaard mentiong descents at the Basque tour, which, it doesn't take a genius to know that the Basque tour has some twisty descent. I've frequently heard rider complaints about descents in the Basque Country.
I frankly find this kind of implication appalling on Benji's part, that, if only they had listened to this org that nobody had heard of until now, this wouldn't have happened.
I am sure that both of them will be able to race within 8 weeks but it’s much more questionable that they will be able to perform. . A few percent off peak performance means no chance for podiums.I wouldn't be so sure. Wout has the same kind of injury and he's still not ruled out the Giro, which is much sooner.
They had to ride to the finish anyways might as well race. I’ve worked long enough (45 yrs) that inevitably some tragedies occur when at work: the death of a co-workers immediate family member, a horrible accident, and (when I worked as a ranger) the death of a fellow ranger. I was always initially dumbfounded and shut down. I could have gone home. But once I started moving again it felt like the most basic, grounding thing to do was get back to work, at least for a bit. These riders are at work when they’re racing, why wouldn’t they (the breakaway) just get back to work and race to the finish. As long as they don’t do a flamboyant celebration, there’s no disrespect in that.But absurdly they allowed the break to race for an untimed stage win. What bafoons. Why did they not just call the whole show off? Nobody cared anymore about a stage winner.
That they would all ride to the finish was already a means of "working through" the trauma. But why have the whole field neutralized and say to the break essentially, "you guys race for the win, but nobody will be timed"? Frankly, that's absurd. What's the point? Was anyone still interested in the "outcome" of the stage? With the three big GC guys out and a field neutralized? It makes no sense and seems like those running the show were keystone cops.They had to ride to the finish anyways might as well race. I’ve worked long enough (45 yrs) that inevitably some tragedies occur when at work: the death of a co-workers immediate family member, a horrible accident, and (when I worked as a ranger) the death of a fellow ranger. I was always initially dumbfounded and shut down. I could have gone home. But once I started moving again it felt like the most basic, grounding thing to do was get back to work, at least for a bit. These riders are at work when they’re racing, why wouldn’t they (the breakaway) just get back to work and race to the finish. As long as they don’t do a flamboyant celebration, there’s no disrespect in that.
That they would all ride to the finish was already a means of "working through" the trauma. But why have the whole field neutralized and say to the break essentially, "you guys race for the win, but nobody will be timed"? Frankly, that's absurd. What's the point? Was anyone still interested in the "outcome" of the stage? With the three big GC guys out and a field neutralized? It makes no sense and seems like those running the show were keystone cops.
But what value does winning a stage have when the field was neutralized behind? ZeroOf course the breakaway riders were interested in the chance of winning a stage in a WorldTour race.