Great win. He is in rare form and needed to take advantage of it. See if it continues with the stage races pre Tour.
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Re: Re:
Also, considering Jakob's skillset it is a development that makes sense. Being a climber with a good engine, his skillset does not deteriorate as early as would be the case for a puncheur/explosive climber (okay, Valverde is the exception here).
Of course it is a development that does not happen very often. But if you have been following Jakob's career closely you'd know that the 2016 olympics was probably the point where his career turned. He has been getting stronger and stronger gradually over the last 3 seasons enjoying what was his best season last year despite the lacklustre Tour. I think that mentally he is much stronger than in his late 20's. He developed a killer instinct when he 'won' silver in the Olympics and afterwards won the Dauphiné. He also changed trainer up to this season and in general, he does look leaner than usual.Kwibus said:
Also, considering Jakob's skillset it is a development that makes sense. Being a climber with a good engine, his skillset does not deteriorate as early as would be the case for a puncheur/explosive climber (okay, Valverde is the exception here).
I am reading the posts since La Doyenne, and for some reason a bunch of people seem to think, that Fuglsang should drop riding GC at the Tour......... because he just won a monument?
Eeeehhhh...... I'm rather confused here - you seem to be saying, that because he is in the shape of his life, he should not attempt GC at the tour?
Makes no sense to me people - sorry
Nobody seem to question Nibali or Yates or Bardet doing both?
Eeeehhhh...... I'm rather confused here - you seem to be saying, that because he is in the shape of his life, he should not attempt GC at the tour?
Makes no sense to me people - sorry
Nobody seem to question Nibali or Yates or Bardet doing both?
Re:
Nope, it doesn't make sense at all. He can't really focus more on one-day races than he has done this spring. So if he wants a crack at GC in the Tour, be my guest.
Broccolidwarf said:I am reading the posts since La Doyenne, and for some reason a bunch of people seem to think, that Fuglsang should drop riding GC at the Tour......... because he just won a monument?
Eeeehhhh...... I'm rather confused here - you seem to be saying, that because he is in the shape of his life, he should not attempt GC at the tour?
Makes no sense to me people - sorry
Nobody seem to question Nibali or Yates or Bardet doing both?
Nope, it doesn't make sense at all. He can't really focus more on one-day races than he has done this spring. So if he wants a crack at GC in the Tour, be my guest.
Re: Re:
I think the mentality change is key.
It is the norm rather than the exception, when a good lieutenant has been stuck in the role of supporting a superstar captain for years, that he falls through when he finally gets his shot, because the killer instinct has gone.
Too many races spent burning yourself up for the captain, before you hit the finish line.
I also think you are right the olympics forced him to change his mentality.
Because of Denmarks ranking at the time, he only had 2 domestigues for that race, and when they both absolutely killed themselves for him during the race, he just HAD to step up in the finale.
Since then he has been a changed rider, slowly but surely finding his killer instinct again.
Big question for the tour will be, if he can avoid the usual 1 bad day he has at the 3 week races...... sometimes it's form (often on the first big mountain stage, or a mountain stage after a rest day), sometimes he get screwed by something beyond his control (like getting moved down by a motorcycle)..... but he always seem to have 1 off day in the 3 weeks.
On the plus side, he will bring a much better team this year than last, where the only Astana climber that performed on the big mountain stages were Jesper Hansen, so he should have better protection and more tactical options this time around.
Cance > TheRest said:
I think the mentality change is key.
It is the norm rather than the exception, when a good lieutenant has been stuck in the role of supporting a superstar captain for years, that he falls through when he finally gets his shot, because the killer instinct has gone.
Too many races spent burning yourself up for the captain, before you hit the finish line.
I also think you are right the olympics forced him to change his mentality.
Because of Denmarks ranking at the time, he only had 2 domestigues for that race, and when they both absolutely killed themselves for him during the race, he just HAD to step up in the finale.
Since then he has been a changed rider, slowly but surely finding his killer instinct again.
Big question for the tour will be, if he can avoid the usual 1 bad day he has at the 3 week races...... sometimes it's form (often on the first big mountain stage, or a mountain stage after a rest day), sometimes he get screwed by something beyond his control (like getting moved down by a motorcycle)..... but he always seem to have 1 off day in the 3 weeks.
On the plus side, he will bring a much better team this year than last, where the only Astana climber that performed on the big mountain stages were Jesper Hansen, so he should have better protection and more tactical options this time around.
Re: Re:
Exactly
A different focus in spring would only be relevant, if he was riding the Giro.
tobydawq said:Broccolidwarf said:I am reading the posts since La Doyenne, and for some reason a bunch of people seem to think, that Fuglsang should drop riding GC at the Tour......... because he just won a monument?
Eeeehhhh...... I'm rather confused here - you seem to be saying, that because he is in the shape of his life, he should not attempt GC at the Tour?
Makes no sense to me people - sorry
Nobody seem to question Nibali or Yates or Bardet doing both?
Nope, it doesn't make sense at all. He can't really focus more on one-day races than he has done this spring. So if he wants a crack at GC in the Tour, be my guest.
Exactly
A different focus in spring would only be relevant, if he was riding the Giro.
Great win in Liege - really like him, he could also do ,well omn cobbles, he dragged Nibali over cobbles in 2014
Astana...I won't get started. The (almost) perfect storm continues. Congrats for the win, deserved after so many times knocking at the door. Smart racing from Jakob, he got it. He was strong.
Looking at Fuglsang's past in the Tour the conclusion is that he was often a helper of Andy Schleck or Nibali, who both won the Tour (officially) with Fuglsang in the team. When he rode for himself he finished 7th (2013) and 12th (2018). It's a pity that he DNF two years ago after winning the Dauphiné. I don't remember what happened last year, but he should be able to finish higher than 12th.
Re:
Yeah he was awful in the 2017 TDF right from the start (losing about a minute in the stage 1 time trial over 14km) and Astana understandably made Aru their leader. I don't know if he was sick or he just left his form on the Dauphine mountains.
Pantani_lives said:
Yeah he was awful in the 2017 TDF right from the start (losing about a minute in the stage 1 time trial over 14km) and Astana understandably made Aru their leader. I don't know if he was sick or he just left his form on the Dauphine mountains.
Then he climbed up the GC until he was in fifth place and... broke his arm.
As for last year; things went a little fishy.
As for last year; things went a little fishy.
Re:
Nibali's performance on the cobbled stage in 2014 was the winning of the race. He basically rode the whole thing sitting on Fuglsang's wheel.
Pantani_lives said:
Nibali's performance on the cobbled stage in 2014 was the winning of the race. He basically rode the whole thing sitting on Fuglsang's wheel.
Can someone enlightne me about Fuglsangs chances for the Dauphine GC if he's going for the GC? What about his preparation after an intense sping classics season?
Dauphine has an assroute
Unless Fuglsang can be very, very close in the ITT, he's not gonna be very high in GC.
Unless Fuglsang can be very, very close in the ITT, he's not gonna be very high in GC.
Re:
He did a great TT last year in Suisse tho. But with only one mountain stage, its pretty hard for him to do anything against IneosRed Rick said:
Yeah, I was disappointed when I saw the route aswell. But the TT is not bad for Fuglsang with the climb in the middle. I'd be surprised if he does not finish in the top 5-10 regardless of the route.
He will probably hit the wall in the Tour as his early season form was sensational. Generally I think the Dauphine is a good race for him but the route this year looks a bit odd. If the form continues then top seven in the Tour wouldn't surprise.
I think if Fuglsang has managed his form correctly between Liege and the Tour, top 3-6 is possible. He's been that good so far this year.
I think we'll see a more reserved Fuglsang at Dauphine.
He might go deep on the TT and the one big mountain stage, to test himself, but I don't see him trying for the overall win, day in and day out.
I think he found out last year, as did Roglic at the Giro this year, that you can't be in prime condition in the preparation race, and still be in peak condition over a month later, in the big mountains of the following GT.
I would not be surprised at all, if Astana rode Dauphine for Izagirre.
- at least that is what I hope for
He might go deep on the TT and the one big mountain stage, to test himself, but I don't see him trying for the overall win, day in and day out.
I think he found out last year, as did Roglic at the Giro this year, that you can't be in prime condition in the preparation race, and still be in peak condition over a month later, in the big mountains of the following GT.
I would not be surprised at all, if Astana rode Dauphine for Izagirre.
- at least that is what I hope for
Re:
I think this analysis is faulty at best.
Since 2012, it's only in 2014 and 2017 that the winner of the Dauphiné has not gone on to also win the Tour. Pretty remarkable, actually.
Also, there is a big difference between the placement of Dauphiné and Romandie respective to the Tour and the Giro. From the end of the Dauphiné, there is three weeks until the Tour. Just five days separate the end of Romandie and the first stage of the Giro.
This makes it very difficult if not impossible to peak properly for the Giro if you go all out in the Romandie, but the longer pause after the Dauphiné lets you recover from the effort and also maintain your high level.
In short, I hope he goes classics shape nuts in the Dauphiné. And Gorka Izagirre certainly has no chance.
Broccolidwarf said:I think we'll see a more reserved Fuglsang at Dauphine.
He might go deep on the TT and the one big mountain stage, to test himself, but I don't see him trying for the overall win, day in and day out.
I think he found out last year, as did Roglic at the Giro this year, that you can't be in prime condition in the preparation race, and still be in peak condition over a month later, in the big mountains of the following GT.
I would not be surprised at all, if Astana rode Dauphine for Izagirre.
- at least that is what I hope for
I think this analysis is faulty at best.
Since 2012, it's only in 2014 and 2017 that the winner of the Dauphiné has not gone on to also win the Tour. Pretty remarkable, actually.
Also, there is a big difference between the placement of Dauphiné and Romandie respective to the Tour and the Giro. From the end of the Dauphiné, there is three weeks until the Tour. Just five days separate the end of Romandie and the first stage of the Giro.
This makes it very difficult if not impossible to peak properly for the Giro if you go all out in the Romandie, but the longer pause after the Dauphiné lets you recover from the effort and also maintain your high level.
In short, I hope he goes classics shape nuts in the Dauphiné. And Gorka Izagirre certainly has no chance.
Re:
Except there’s an established precedent at both Romandie and the Dauphine that riders can and often do win the warmup and the GT. If anything, the history shows that it’s more trouble to peak too close to the GT (far more Tour winners have won the Dauphine first, than Suisse, for example).
Fuglsang might as well go all out for the Dauphine, as he is more likely to win it. And he would have enough time after to recover and focus on the Tour, which he is far, far less likely to win.
Broccolidwarf said:I think we'll see a more reserved Fuglsang at Dauphine.
He might go deep on the TT and the one big mountain stage, to test himself, but I don't see him trying for the overall win, day in and day out.
Ithink he found out last year, as did Roglic at the Giro this year, that you can't be in prime condition in the preparation race, and still be in peak condition over a month later, in the big mountains of the following GT.
I would not be surprised at all, if Astana rode Dauphine for Izagirre.
- at least that is what I hope for
Except there’s an established precedent at both Romandie and the Dauphine that riders can and often do win the warmup and the GT. If anything, the history shows that it’s more trouble to peak too close to the GT (far more Tour winners have won the Dauphine first, than Suisse, for example).
Fuglsang might as well go all out for the Dauphine, as he is more likely to win it. And he would have enough time after to recover and focus on the Tour, which he is far, far less likely to win.
To both of you:
I know the precedence, but I also know how Fuglsangs Tour went last year, and Roglics Giro this year.
I think the only way you can win both, is if you have a stellar team protecting you, day in and day out, in both races..... and neither has that.
Obviously, we still has to see the Astana roster, but the one they put into Dauphine, is far from impressive
I know the precedence, but I also know how Fuglsangs Tour went last year, and Roglics Giro this year.
I think the only way you can win both, is if you have a stellar team protecting you, day in and day out, in both races..... and neither has that.
Obviously, we still has to see the Astana roster, but the one they put into Dauphine, is far from impressive
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