Jan Ullrich

[webvan]

I'm afraid he lost his credibility when he went to Fuentes in 2003 and got caught in 2006...had he retired from cycling in 2001 I'm sure there would have been a case to see him today as a victim of Armstrong and give him these titles back. Of course that decision was his but impossible to make, very sad.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'm afraid he lost his credibility when he went to Fuentes in 2003 and got caught in 2006...had he retired from cycling in 2001 I'm sure there would have been a case to see him today as a victim of Armstrong and give him these titles back. Of course that decision was his but impossible to make, very sad.

he lost his credibility riding for telekom in 1996

 

[Lukenwolf]

Since Dopestrong is out Ullrich is going to regret getting back on the juice after 2001 it seems, if he'd made the right decision at the time he'd be a three time TDF champion now, 1997, 2000 and 2001. I hope that doesn't make him depressed again...

I would hazard a guess that we was EPO'ed in 1996 and 1997. Most of the former Terrorkom riders, who confessed to EPO use did it at the time. Ullrich had to be held back to give Riis the 1996 win and Riis had astronomical Hct values at the time.

The only time he was probably "somewhat clean" was 2000-2001. In the IM conversation between Frankie Andreu and JV the latter said that Credit Agricole was on nothing and that Ullich never had a higher Hct than 42, which was ridiculously low at the time. Thinking about it, 2000 and 2001 may well have been the "cleanest" period cycling has ever seen

 

[Bavarianrider]

4 time Tour de France Champion, what a legend. All hail il Kaiser!

 

[webvan]

Read the above.

I would hazard a guess that we was EPO'ed in 1996 and 1997. Most of the former Terrorkom riders, who confessed to EPO use did it at the time. Ullrich had to be held back to give Riis the 1996 win and Riis had astronomical Hct values at the time.

The only time he was probably "somewhat clean" was 2000-2001. In the IM conversation between Frankie Andreu and JV the latter said that Credit Agricole was on nothing and that Ullich never had a higher Hct than 42, which was ridiculously low at the time. Thinking about it, 2000 and 2001 may well have been the "cleanest" period cycling has ever seen

Well yes, except for USPS I guess!

 

[cineteq]

4 time Tour de France Champion, what a legend. All hail il Kaiser!

Enjoy...although those 1st places will be left empty.

 

[Bavarianrider]

They gave Mancebo Ulles third place from 2005.
They gave Koldo Gil is 06 Suisse victory.
So how could they not give Ulle the Tour victories. That would be way too much of a double standard!!!

 

[webvan]

Hum...where did they do that though, on Wikipedia ? Is there some kind of official palmares on the UCI website ?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Hum...where did they do that though, on Wikipedia ? Is there some kind of official palmares on the UCI website ?

CAS verdict.

 

[VeloCity]

That would be way too much of a double standard!!!

I don't really care what is done officially, but fact is that Ullrich doped, just like Armstrong. He's no different.

 

[webvan]

CAS verdict.

What, they would have mentioned Koldo Gil or Mancebo in a CAS judgement on Ullrich, that makes no sense...I looked it up and of course there is no mention of them : http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/5691/5048/0/Award20FINAL202083202012.02.09.pdf - next time check your facts.

 

[McLovin]

Did Jan spoke to German media since last October about Armstrong or things related?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Did Jan spoke to German media since last October about Armstrong or things related?

No, not really.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Nice one. So the it appears as if Ulle & T-Mobile doped, but not using blood doping til 04/05. 6 years behind USPS! I wonder what the reasons for that were... morals? safety?

Seeing big buttet Vino in T-Mobile outfit flying over the mountains is not a spoiler for this urban myth?

Ullrich was a good rider but a good doping program made him a great rider. He was a dominate U23 rider, won Worlds, but when he got on the Telekom program he suddenly climbed like he had a motor. It shocked everyone.

Exactly, the guy was a sprinter/TTér FFS. When Tony Martin wins on Arcalis one should raise eyebrows, the same with der Ulli, how likeable he is he was just an EPO wonder.

 

[mountainrman]

i do not think Ullrich had the winner mentality and killer instinct.

There are many supremely talented athletes in all sports that never make the grade because of that. Take Asafa Powell in sprinting. He always chokes on the biggest stage.

 

[Zweistein]

Seeing big buttet Vino in T-Mobile outfit flying over the mountains is not a spoiler for this urban myth?

Exactly, the guy was a sprinter/TTér FFS. When Tony Martin wins on Arcalis one should raise eyebrows, the same with der Ulli, how likeable he is he was just an EPO wonder.

He was never a sprinter. His U23 WC was out of a small group. By that token, Cunego must be a sprinter.

 

[Neworld]

... When Tony Martin wins on Arcalis one should raise eyebrows, the same with der Ulli, how likeable he is he was just an EPO wonder.

Tony Martin almost won on Mt Ventoux...your point is?

As for doping, as I have mentioned before, not all doping programs are equal.

Sure the top 40 riders in the past 15yrs have been doped but some doped differently(more).

I cannot support the belief that Ullrich doped 'as much' as Lance/UPS/Disco until 2003. But in 2003 Jan never had any team support and his near win speaks volumes as to how gifted he was riding all alone and for the first time with a doping program that may have matched Mr. Cancer.

Tyler's book stated openly that Lance would always prepare fo the TdF by doping more voluminously or with several additional products (artificial plasma) or teammates to ensure his wins. Now add in that LA has a natively low HCT and hyperresponse to EPO, and having the UCI and ASO in his pocket to allow for unbridled positive doping results there is no level 'doping' scenario.

The doping balance, or arms race, was asymmetric.

Ullrich would have destroyed Lancey if there was balance. In that scenario no one would have been questioning Ulle's 'mental toughness' as he would have been winning, and Lance would have been just surviving. LA would have not amassed the money, the fans, the bravado, the ability to bully riders and journalists and he eventually have retired or become victom of an eventual positive blood test.

Has any journalist contacted Jan recently to see what comments he has about Lancey's demise?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

He was never a sprinter. His U23 WC was out of a small group. By that token, Cunego must be a sprinter.

No, Damiano is an ex-doper.

But, point taken, I should have put TT'er in front. Ulli 'could sprint in the youth ranks in a small group' should be the correct line. Guess he lost that ability in the pro - circus given the fact Pantani had to his best to let him win that stage in 1998 in the sprint a deux

But, Ulli did have the built of a climber. Just like der Toni.

Tony Martin almost won on Mt Ventoux...your point is?

Nuff said.

Ullrich would have destroyed Lancey if there was balance.

In normal circumstances in the first and second autobus. I agree.

 

[86TDFWinner]

i do not think Ullrich had the winner mentality and killer instinct.

There are many supremely talented athletes in all sports that never make the grade because of that. Take Asafa Powell in sprinting. He always chokes on the biggest stage.

How can you say he "didnt have a killer instinct", he doped and won a TDF, he DOES know how to win. Had the UCI/WADA handed Jan a few of Wonderboys yellows, Jan would've(atleast on paper) won what 4 titles?.

Had Jan never won anything, your statement would be spot on. But Jan won, so he did know how to win/had the killer instinct. What we've learned over the last 4 months, it seems to make Jan look like an even better rider imo. He lost out to a guy who doped to the gills to beat him and every other rider.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Had Jan never won anything, your statement would be spot on. But Jan won, so he did know how to win/had the killer instinct. What we've learned over the last 4 months, it seems to make Jan look like an even better rider imo. He lost out to a guy who doped to the gills to beat him and every other rider.

You can't be serious about this, watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5EocT-lKHI

I declare Yean Cyrille Robin maybe Stephane Heulot the winner of the 1997 Tour de France.

 

[86TDFWinner]

You can't be serious about this, watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5EocT-lKHI

I declare Yean Cyrille Robin maybe Stephane Heulot the winner of the 1997 Tour de France.

I know all that, I was being facetious to an extent. Ullrich won a tour, and finished 2nd 4 times. The " he didnt have killer jnstinct" comment was funny to me, as it's just not true. Relax my friend, just trying to give Jan a little credit and disprove the "no killer instinct" statement.

Besides, if memory serves me right, they only stripped Jan of his 02 3rd place, and not the 97 title, right?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I know all that, I was being facetious to an extent. Ullrich won a tour, and finished 2nd 4 times. The " he didnt have killer jnstinct" comment was funny to me, as it's just not true. Relax my friend, just trying to give Jan a little credit and disprove the "no killer instinct" statement.

Besides, if memory serves me right, they only stripped Jan of his 02 3rd place, and not the 97 title, right?

Fair enough, I don't know if they striped him I must say. Never tested positive, besides the coke of course

 

[86TDFWinner]

Fair enough, I don't know if they striped him I must say. Never tested positive, besides the coke of course

Right! I'm pretty sure he's still listed as the 97 winner. Think they whacked him on the 2002 third place, but a dopers a doper, right?.

 

[Le breton]

.......
I declare Yean Cyrille Robin maybe Stephane Heulot the winner of the 1997 Tour de France........

Jean Cyril Robin stopped doping after 1998, before he didn't like it either but most probably did it as much as necessary to keep his place.

It was great for him to finish 3rd in the 1999 world road championship.

Great recent interview (in French) here :

http://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/un...inir-les-regles-du-jeu-_3638-2125932_actu.Htm

Heulot? I don't know. Probably more or less the same, but on the more side.

 

[skidmark]

Right! I'm pretty sure he's still listed as the 97 winner. Think they whacked him on the 2002 third place, but a dopers a doper, right?.

Just being pedantic, but it was his 2005 third place that they took, I think 02 was the year he was injured and missed the Tour. His incredibly retroactive suspension was Puerto-involved, and so affected his results from 05-06 (to his forced retirement).