Jay Vine discussion thread

[Monsi]

Jay will be racing the Giro next year, he's not on the startlist on any of the websites but he will be there.

I would've liked to see him at The Tour, but at least this way he will get more rope. Maybe he will go for GC, Mcnulty style.

I honestly thought next year might be the year where he gets to finally ride the Tour but with him riding Giro, it seems unlikely. A bit of a shame. Still hope he maybe gets to do Giro and Tour.

 

[yaco]

Have posted for the last year that if he continues to miss the TDF then he needs to change teams. Nothing has changed.

 

[Cookster15]

Have posted for the last year that if he continues to miss the TDF then he needs to change teams. Nothing has changed.

I am not really across Vine but is he staying at UAE for money? Upon reading your comment just checked Vines age - 30! His career is passing him by.

I definitely think he has much untapped potential as a grand tour rider. I am another who opines Vine's main weakness seemed descending and bike handling which caused him to crash more often and lose time downhill. This in turn likely stems back to his Zwift past. I believe descending skills and confidence can be acquired simply with more time in the saddle and riding in the mountains. But at 30 he is running out of time.

 

[Salvarani]

I dont think he needs to change teams or that not doing Tour is the end or be all here. Im sure he would like to ride it at some point, but I would like to see it is that he is "only" 30 also. That he started quite late or had a different way into a cycling career matters here. He might more interested in getting results and making a good living while he can as a cyclist.

He just had his best season this last season and for the most part managed to stay on his bike for the first time.

Otherwise, he has been quite unreliable. One of the reasons he hasnt raced Tour... and because the competition to be in the Tour for UAE has been brutal.

He also kind of been known to ride for himself a lot. That hasnt benefited him either in terms of being up for selection.

He hasnt even been in contention until now imo, after the season he just had. Rode great for Pog in Lombardia as well. Something that could likely increase his chances to maybe get a chance to go.

It is possible that he is fine riding the same type of schedule this season. He should have more own opportunities continuing that way. Maybe that is more important to him.

I wouldnt rule out him doing Tour completely yet though, but I dont think he can be too mad about missing out either. Unless he has really stated his intention that he wants to go, but doesnt get the chance... despite showing excellent form/level.

At the end of the day, there may other factors involved as well. Team chemistry and whatnot. Who knows.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Vine has been very open in the past about his main driver as a cyclist being money, so unless Jayco are willing to spend stupid amounts to add another Australian big name to their roster I doubt he'll be overly fussed about not getting to do the Tour.

 

[Cycling111]

Vine couldn't be a Tour leader for any team. He suffers too many crashes, and French roads are the most difficult.

 

[yaco]

Vine couldn't be a Tour leader for any team. He suffers too many crashes, and French roads are the most difficult.

The suggestion is that Vine has the level to ride the TDF. There is no suggestion that he should be riding for GC.

 

[Monsi]

Vine couldn't be a Tour leader for any team. He suffers too many crashes, and French roads are the most difficult.

No one's asking him to be a Tour leader or get any top 10 GC place or whatever. At his peak shape, he is good enough to do serious damage in the GC group on the mountains as a pure domestique. Him suffering a lot of crashes should not be a big reason for him to be left out of a Tour team.

 

[saunaking]

The suggestion is that Vine has the level to ride the TDF. There is no suggestion that he should be riding for GC.

Jay Vine is living his best life!!
He could absolutely ride for GC if he cared to. If Movistar has Chad Underpants going for tour GC, Jay Vine could smoke him big time.

 

[Bolder]

Jay Vine is living his best life!!
He could absolutely ride for GC if he cared to. If Movistar has Chad Underpants going for tour GC, Jay Vine could smoke him big time.

Agreed and this is the superteam conundrum. If salaries and resources were better distributed across the peloton Vine would be riding for GC somewhere. There's no incentive for him to do that now.

 

[Cycling111]

Those who say Vine should go to another team to lead a Grand Tour, have they seen him taking corners today?
It's impossible to win a Grand Tour being so technically inept. He'd crash in those stages where he loses time to go for stage wins.

 

[yaco]

Those who say Vine should go to another team to lead a Grand Tour, have they seen him taking corners today?
It's impossible to win a Grand Tour being so technically inept. He'd crash in those stages where he loses time to go for stage wins.

You are making things up to suit a narrative. People have posted that he has the level to possibly win a TDF stage.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

You are making things up to suit a narrative. People have posted that he has the level to possibly win a TDF stage.

That doesn't mean it's true, just because people have posted it. I'm pretty sure if he had the necessary level he'd go to another team because at UAE he will not be a captain

 

[Berniece]

That doesn't mean it's true, just because people have posted it. I'm pretty sure if he had the necessary level he'd go to another team because at UAE he will not be a captain

Other teams don't pay the same. The whole reason he left Alpecin was for money

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Other teams don't pay the same. The whole reason he left Alpecin was for money

Do you really think he could win a GT but chose not to even get a chance in order to make more money, not like he'd be starving on other teams

 

[Squire]

Do you really think he could win a GT but chose not to even get a chance in order to make more money, not like he'd be starving on other teams

I think you are discussing something completely different than the people you are disagreeing with. Leading a team at a GT, 'riding for GC' and especially winning a stage, as yaco mentions, doesn't necessarily require being a strong candidate for the overall win. Cycling sure was more fun when more teams had legitimate GC contenders, even if many of those quite rightly weren't expected to be able to win one. The sport would be a much better watch from having riders like Vine leading smaller teams, in my opinion.

As for Vine's chances, I'd put him quite far down the list of people likely to win a GT if they were leading a team, but I also think that worse riders have won GTs. At his absolute best I think he has the level needed for a random outsider GT win. And I don't think his percieved lack of technical ability will be the main hindrance, although a sterrato stage wouldn't be ideal of course. Wiggins won a GT. Menchov won multiple. Zakarin podiumed one.

 

[Cycling111]

I think you are discussing something completely different than the people you are disagreeing with. Leading a team at a GT, 'riding for GC' and especially winning a stage, as yaco mentions, doesn't necessarily require being a strong candidate for the overall win. Cycling sure was more fun when more teams had legitimate GC contenders, even if many of those quite rightly weren't expected to be able to win one. The sport would be a much better watch from having riders like Vine leading smaller teams, in my opinion.

As for Vine's chances, I'd put him quite far down the list of people likely to win a GT if they were leading a team, but I also think that worse riders have won GTs. At his absolute best I think he has the level needed for a random outsider GT win. And I don't think his percieved lack of technical ability will be the main hindrance, although a sterrato stage wouldn't be ideal of course. Wiggins won a GT. Menchov won multiple. Zakarin podiumed one.

Tao and Hesjedal aren't any stronger either. I'd even say he's pretty on par with a good Hindley.

In time trial and in the mountains is better than some of those you mention, but he's so technically limited and he wouldn't survive the flat stages, the ones where he can lose time and go for a stage win from the breakaway. It's also easier to win stages from the breakaway; the rivals are weaker than the GC contenders.

And I think he's better suited to the Vuelta than the Giro because the stages are generally easier.

He's in an ideal situation given his characteristics. He wouldn't get through the flat stages without crashes, especially in France, and being a domestique in a minor GT gives him the freedom to win stages from breakaways where he's better than most of these riders because physically he's at the level of a GT (Vuelta and some Giro) contender.

 

[Squire]

Tao and Hesjedal aren't any stronger either. I'd even say he's pretty on par with a good Hindley.

In time trial and in the mountains is better than some of those you mention, but he's so technically limited and he wouldn't survive the flat stages, the ones where he can lose time and go for a stage win from the breakaway. It's also easier to win stages from the breakaway; the rivals are weaker than the GC contenders.

And I think he's better suited to the Vuelta than the Giro because the stages are generally easier.

He's in an ideal situation given his characteristics. He wouldn't get through the flat stages without crashes, especially in France, and being a domestique in a minor GT gives him the freedom to win stages from breakaways where he's better than most of these riders because physically he's at the level of a GT (Vuelta and some Giro) contender.

I think you are overplaying how much he'd struggle with flat stages and how technically limited he is. I don't think he's doomed to lose because of his lack of bike skills on a regular non-challenging Vuelta route, or any not particularly challenging GT route really. But that's impossible to know until he tries, I guess. So we will never know.

And I don't think he's as good as TGH was and definitely not as good as Hindley, who is chronically underrated. But Hesjedal, Kuss, Horner and Aitor Gonzalez managed to win a GT in the 21st century, so why not Vine if all stars aligned.

 

[Cookster15]

Jay Vine turned pro at the 2021 Tour of Turkey already aged 25. He has not yet been riding pro for 5 years.

Of course, descending and bike skills are definitely his big weakness. Unsurprising for his Zwift background but those aspects of road cycling can be learned.

A good example is Chris Froome. Froome was rated a poor descender circa 2012. By 2016 Froome was launching an attack on the descent of the Col de Peyresourde in the 2016 Tour de France. The following year it was Froome who was leading the GC chase on descent of Mont du Chat when Richie Porte had his massive crash whilst trying to follow.

If Froome could improve his technical skills why not Jay Vine? Not sure he can win a GT but I doubt we have seen the best of Jay Vine in Grand Tours.