Jayco al-'Ula and its GreenEdge predecessors

[StryderHells]

Re:

I am 90% certain Power will be offered a new contract but he needs to improve in the second half of the year - 9 minutes back today- Like to see him in a breakaway in one of the next two stages.

He really doesn't need to be seen in any break over the next 2 stages, he's fulfilling a roll at this race and building on the year that he missed last year. He IS one of the better U23 riders that have come out of Australia and assuming he is fully recovered will repay Orica's faith in him.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

I am 90% certain Power will be offered a new contract but he needs to improve in the second half of the year - 9 minutes back today- Like to see him in a breakaway in one of the next two stages.

He really doesn't need to be seen in any break over the next 2 stages, he's fulfilling a roll at this race and building on the year that he missed last year. He IS one of the better U23 riders that have come out of Australia and assuming he is fully recovered will repay Orica's faith in him.

A brilliant U23 record is no guarantee of anything at senior pro level; as many fall by the wayside as make the grade let alone become a major player.

However; I agree that it is only fair, given he lost 95% of his neo-pro year, that he be given another 2 years in order to show something. I don't know whether he will or will not as not every signing works out as intended but he is probably being compared, somewhat unfairly, to both Haig & Edmondson who are already starring to show some "return on investment".

 

[Valv.Piti]

What are people expecting the team to look like?
And what are people expecting from Chaves and Simon?

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

What are people expecting the team to look like?
And what are people expecting from Chaves and Simon?

Tour team ?? SY will be the designated GC man although expactations may be recalibrated down somewhat after Dauphine.

Chaves will obviously be protected but I don't think there will be reaching for the razor blades if he loses time early on. Think it will be a case of letting him ride himself into form as the race progresses and hopefully he'll be set to be "the man" for the Vuelta campaign. IF he's going well later in the Tour, then clearly they'll let him off the leash.

What I think may happen is that key Chaves lieutenants such as Howson may be be held back from the Tour so as to have their strongest mountain support at the Vuelta (Howson, Haig, Plaza, Verona). Kreuziger will stay at the Tour as Yates peak suppport with Impey the other main man for the uphills. Rest of the team mostly rouleurs and puncheurs who will be allowed to take their chances if they feel they're up for it

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

What are people expecting the team to look like?
And what are people expecting from Chaves and Simon?

1.S.Yates
2.Chaves
3.Gerrans
4.Kreuziger
5.Impey
6.Howson
7.Bewley
8.Durbridge
9.Alabasini, Keukeleire, Hayman, Haig

The one thing with thing with the lineup is if the squad decides to pull some riders the TDF team and send them to the Vuelta to support Chaves as that looks like the GT he has a genuine shot at this season, Howson and Bewley would be the 2 obvious riders who drop out and head to the Vuelta. With Chaves using the race as prep and S.Yates a top 10 shot at best I wouldn't be surprised to see the teams final spots taken up by riders who could sneak away for a stage win like Albasini. Haig is a outside chance but sending him to the Vuelta would make more sense.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

What are people expecting the team to look like?
And what are people expecting from Chaves and Simon?

1.S.Yates
2.Chaves
3.Gerrans
4.Kreuziger
5.Impey
6.Howson
7.Bewley
8.Durbridge
9.Alabasini, Keukeleire, Hayman, Haig

The one thing with thing with the lineup is if the squad decides to pull some riders the TDF team and send them to the Vuelta to support Chaves as that looks like the GT he has a genuine shot at this season, Howson and Bewley would be the 2 obvious riders who drop out and head to the Vuelta. With Chaves using the race as prep and S.Yates a top 10 shot at best I wouldn't be surprised to see the teams final spots taken up by riders who could sneak away for a stage win like Albasini. Haig is a outside chance but sending him to the Vuelta would make more sense.

Haig and Keukeleire going to Tour of Slovenia so almost certainly not going to Tour barring last minute issues ruling out others. They'll be at Vuelta.

I'm certainly leaning to pulling Howson & Bewley from the Tour to pack the Vuelta team. That would probably almost ensure that all 3 of Impey, Gerrans & Albasini will be at Tour. Whilst Impey will be primarily used as a climbing dom, the other 2 will most probably be given some licence if they like the looks of certain stages. Hayman will most likely be confirmed. Last position is anyone's guess

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I am 90% certain Power will be offered a new contract but he needs to improve in the second half of the year - 9 minutes back today- Like to see him in a breakaway in one of the next two stages.

He really doesn't need to be seen in any break over the next 2 stages, he's fulfilling a roll at this race and building on the year that he missed last year. He IS one of the better U23 riders that have come out of Australia and assuming he is fully recovered will repay Orica's faith in him.

A brilliant U23 record is no guarantee of anything at senior pro level; as many fall by the wayside as make the grade let alone become a major player.

However; I agree that it is only fair, given he lost 95% of his neo-pro year, that he be given another 2 years in order to show something. I don't know whether he will or will not as not every signing works out as intended but he is probably being compared, somewhat unfairly, to both Haig & Edmondson who are already starring to show some "return on investment".

Power isn't just being compared to Edmondson and Haig, but all of Orica's recent neo-pros - Yates x 2, Howson, Cort, Ewan etc have all had some excellent results, quite quickly as well.

It's easy to forget that they've had a faster than usual rise so far for their ages.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

What are people expecting the team to look like?
And what are people expecting from Chaves and Simon?

1.S.Yates
2.Chaves
3.Gerrans
4.Kreuziger
5.Impey
6.Howson
7.Bewley
8.Durbridge
9.Alabasini, Keukeleire, Hayman, Haig

The one thing with thing with the lineup is if the squad decides to pull some riders the TDF team and send them to the Vuelta to support Chaves as that looks like the GT he has a genuine shot at this season, Howson and Bewley would be the 2 obvious riders who drop out and head to the Vuelta. With Chaves using the race as prep and S.Yates a top 10 shot at best I wouldn't be surprised to see the teams final spots taken up by riders who could sneak away for a stage win like Albasini. Haig is a outside chance but sending him to the Vuelta would make more sense.

Haig and Keukeleire going to Tour of Slovenia so almost certainly not going to Tour barring last minute issues ruling out others. They'll be at Vuelta.

I'm certainly leaning to pulling Howson & Bewley from the Tour to pack the Vuelta team. That would probably almost ensure that all 3 of Impey, Gerrans & Albasini will be at Tour. Whilst Impey will be primarily used as a climbing dom, the other 2 will most probably be given some licence if they like the looks of certain stages. Hayman will most likely be confirmed. Last position is anyone's guess

I'm certain Gerrans will be at the Tour. That last spot was a guess on my behalf but I agree Keukeleire will be at the Vuelta, he's had a good record at the race and is versatile enough to be useful when it comes to helping the GC riders. Orica really should take Albasini to the Tour, he's in form and is a reliable bet to get into a break and fight for a stage. It will interesting to see how Haig goes in Slovenia up against Majka, he was good in the race last year but Majka will be tough to beat.

 

[yaco]

Think Stryder's has fairly much time got the TDF team right - Mezgec a close 3rd to Bennett in stage 1 of Slovenia - Should have got 2nd but blocked in the last 50 metres - I suspect they were riding for Edmondson or Kluge but they got lost in the last 1km.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Think Stryder's has fairly much time got the TDF team right - Mezgec a close 3rd to Bennett in stage 1 of Slovenia - Should have got 2nd but blocked in the last 50 metres - I suspect they were riding for Edmondson or Kluge but they got lost in the last 1km.

Have no problems with Mezgec getting a result for himself, in fact I would not be averse to resigning him for another if he's interested in staying. Orica WILL be saddled with TLAS for next year at least so that will give him some work but in any case, he's more than useful over the cobbles and has proven himself capable of snagging some results for himself. Kluge ..... something tells me that he's not proving a particularly good fit so I wouldn't be heartbroken to see a parting of the ways come end 2018

I'm certain Gerrans will be at the Tour. That last spot was a guess on my behalf but I agree Keukeleire will be at the Vuelta, he's had a good record at the race and is versatile enough to be useful when it comes to helping the GC riders. Orica really should take Albasini to the Tour, he's in form and is a reliable bet to get into a break and fight for a stage. It will interesting to see how Haig goes in Slovenia up against Majka, he was good in the race last year but Majka will be tough to beat.

Yep, Gerrans to the Tour along with Albasini. Gerrans DID prove both at last year's Tour and Vuelta that he IS capable of some good hard grunt when the situation calls for it AND as part of team set pieces so even if he doesn't snag any stage high finishes, he can be gainfully employed.

Albasini ..... absolutely. He has been in great form and should be given opportunities

Keukeleire to Vuelta ... completely agree. He seems to like the race and has also seems someone who tends to finish the season strongly. He provides versalitity as regards potential results plus support utility. Why change whats worked well for both him and the team unless circumstances force your hand.

I'm happy to stand by taking both Howson & Bewley out of the Tour and use them to "max up" the Vuelta line up. That means that Hayman probably firms his spot. Last spot ...... very tough call. Do you take another hard grunt man or do you perhaps look at a quick guy. Docker is a maybe but he hasnt been to any of these lead-up races. Ewan - no; too labour intensive/can't go the distance; Edmondson ... maybe next year, Kluge .... hhmm, don't think so; Mezgec .... might be my smoky, he DID ride Giro but he's durable, quick, can be useful support.

 

[yaco]

Seems like Mezgec will again go for the sprint tomorrow in Slovenia - A decent ride by Verona in Suisse who put himself into the break - Pity Plaza crashed out because if he brought his Giro form he could have won a stage from a break.

 

[yaco]

Haig will learn plenty of stage 3 of Slovenie - Once he matched Majka's accelerations he should have worked with the Pole - This would stop Visconti coming back three times on three separate occasions - Haig was at least the second strongest rider on that climb - Like to see Haig havea shot at GC in 2018 Tour of Suisse

Pics of Kreuziger, Howson, Chaves and S/Yates doing reconnaisance or the TDF route - Question is who will be the remaining five riders - Have Impey, Durbridge and Albasini as certainties - Last two spots from Gerrans, Hayman, Bewley and Keukeliere.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Haig will learn plenty of stage 3 of Slovenie - Once he matched Majka's accelerations he should have worked with the Pole - This would stop Visconti coming back three times on three separate occasions - Haig was at least the second strongest rider on that climb - Like to see Haig havea shot at GC in 2018 Tour of Suisse

Pics of Kreuziger, Howson, Chaves and S/Yates doing reconnaisance or the TDF route - Question is who will be the remaining five riders - Have Impey, Durbridge and Albasini as certainties - Last two spots from Gerrans, Hayman, Bewley and Keukeliere.

Agree that they SHOULD give Haig GC opportunities at WT level one weekers next year (IF they don't let him slip through their fingers as I suspect some other teams may now have him on their radars). The issue is WHICH; TDS .... plausible enough.

As for TDS, pass mark on the scores that Albasini was thereabouts on a number of stages; Cort making a safe and increasingly stronger return to racing. Verona rode .... well enough considering this is post completed Giro. His poor TTing probably condemns him from any real development in a GC sense.

Seems they have now locked Howson into Tour .... was kinda hoping they pulled the switch to all out Vuelta. Seems to indicate Chaves/Howson; SY/Kreuziger as key man/chief lieutenant arrangements which probably now sheds further light on Dauphine strategy with Kreuziger and wishing to build a similar connection that Chaves and Howson have developed.

Your selections .... agree up to final two. Now that it seems that Chaves/Howson arelocked into Tour, then I'd have to say that Bewley then locks in as Chaves' pack minder. Last man .... would probably go Gerrans ahead of Hayman. Keukeleire I'd save for Vueta on the grounds that he's a rider who finishes the season strongly so why mess unnecessarily with something that works well for both rider and team

 

[yaco]

Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.

Yeah, much as I feel he would be valuable at the Tour; I see no overwhelming reason to switch him out of the Vuelta where he may be of even greater value unless he, himself, is specifically pushing for a switch in his program.

Actually, with regards to the final spot on the team .... and I don't think it WILL happen; I'd really have no objection to seeing Mezgec given a run. He's quick and durable and is another flexible option for some selective finishes. He is also capable of being of genuine use from time to time on some tough uphill stages .... so you are not taking along a passenger. My observation has been that he seems to have gelled well with the team and I would have zero issue with him being retained for another couple of years, immaterial of what may/may not transpire next year with Ewan. He is of genuine value in his own right.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.

Yeah, much as I feel he would be valuable at the Tour; I see no overwhelming reason to switch him out of the Vuelta where he may be of even greater value unless he, himself, is specifically pushing for a switch in his program.

Actually, with regards to the final spot on the team .... and I don't think it WILL happen; I'd really have no objection to seeing Mezgec given a run. He's quick and durable and is another flexible option for some selective finishes. He is also capable of being of genuine use from time to time on some tough uphill stages .... so you are not taking along a passenger. My observation has been that he seems to have gelled well with the team and I would have zero issue with him being retained for another couple of years, immaterial of what may/may not transpire next year with Ewan. He is of genuine value in his own right.

Let me throw out a scenario - Greipel is now 35 and his contract with Lotto Soudal finishes in 2018 - LS will need a new marquee sprinter - I reckon it will be either Ewan or Bennett - As it stands neither will ride the TDF in the foreseeable future - Orica's GC ambitions thwart Ewan, while Bennett will never ride the TDF with Sagan.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Keukeliere rode a one day race in Belgium on Sunday for the National squad and backs up for another race on Wednesday -He is an iron man of cycling - Doubt he will be at the TDF.

Yeah, much as I feel he would be valuable at the Tour; I see no overwhelming reason to switch him out of the Vuelta where he may be of even greater value unless he, himself, is specifically pushing for a switch in his program.

Actually, with regards to the final spot on the team .... and I don't think it WILL happen; I'd really have no objection to seeing Mezgec given a run. He's quick and durable and is another flexible option for some selective finishes. He is also capable of being of genuine use from time to time on some tough uphill stages .... so you are not taking along a passenger. My observation has been that he seems to have gelled well with the team and I would have zero issue with him being retained for another couple of years, immaterial of what may/may not transpire next year with Ewan. He is of genuine value in his own right.

Let me throw out a scenario - Greipel is now 35 and his contract with Lotto Soudal finishes in 2018 - LS will need a new marquee sprinter - I reckon it will be either Ewan or Bennett - As it stands neither will ride the TDF in the foreseeable future - Orica's GC ambitions thwart Ewan, while Bennett will never ride the TDF with Sagan.

Yep, that;s how I'm seeing things. I realised as early as 2015 that Ewan was going to be an increasingly uncomfortable fit at Orica which is why I've been saying he needs to leave. Ewan replacing Greipel at LS works for me; issue will be whether Mr Bakker (Ewan's manager) gets too greedy. Not sure if Bennett goes off contract this season or next; he too would fit the bill at LS.

 

[StryderHells]

@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.

There WILL continue to be a place for fast guys at Orica but they will be more the classics oriented brand rather than the pure bunch kick man who has limited classics options and relies heavily on a "train".

Both Cort and Edmondson look to fit Description 1 whereas Ewan fits far more into Description 2 (with his only real one day options being Hamburg and/or praying for a very soft pedalled version of Ride London or MSR). What I WOULD do next year, if I were Orica hierarchy, would be to fatten up his WT points tally early in the year (which would be a major selling point to teams desperate to build up their tallies for licence reasons) before parking him for the important races of the year.

Cannondale .... notionally attractive but have they really managed to get much right in any aspect over the past couple of years ? Could work .... but Lotto seems the safer option

 

[yaco]

Re:

@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.

My suspicion is Coquard will end up at Cannondale - Will bring wins during the season, may win a GT stage,Cannondale have enough suitable riders to support his ambitions, and he offers a point of difference at a GT.

Bennett is off contract this year - He receives enough opportunities at Bora but will never ride the TDF, while Sagan is at Bora - He may be best to sign a new one year contract.

I believe teams can split GC and sprinter ambitions, but ultimately sprinters want to win all the time, and therefore are never happy - Cavendish at Sky in 2012 is a perfect example - Won three stages at the TDF but left after one year.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

@Dirkprovin Sam Bennett is indeed out of contract this season. Ewan will get offered a new contract but I am starting to come around to the thinking that he might want to move on if he doesn't see the support that most sprinters need to be successful happening at Orica. Lotto would be a good place to land for a rider like him as he would get support and guidance also looking at the types of races they target he would get plenty of opportunities to shine. I wonder if Cannondale might look at him, they are a team desperately in need of a good sprinter and it wouldn't be hard to sign a couple of riders they could dedicate to him.

My suspicion is Coquard will end up at Cannondale - Will bring wins during the season, may win a GT stage,Cannondale have enough suitable riders to support his ambitions, and he offers a point of difference at a GT.

Bennett is off contract this year - He receives enough opportunities at Bora but will never ride the TDF, while Sagan is at Bora - He may be best to sign a new one year contract.

I believe teams can split GC and sprinter ambitions, but ultimately sprinters want to win all the time, and therefore are never happy - Cavendish at Sky in 2012 is a perfect example - Won three stages at the TDF but left after one year.

Your first conjecture .... that's a plausible enough scenario and could work out

Bennett - largely agree. Depends on just how desperate he is for a TDF run and how he and team directors at both Bora and other WT teams view his skills set/best prospects.

Your final paragraph .... depends on how the actual riders truly view themselves .... as straight out bunch sprinters OR primarily classics riders OR somewhere in between. Some migrate from one group to another as their careers progress. As for how teams can/may manage dual objectives; that is dependent on a number of factors such as how "full on" is their GC focus; is your sprinter one who is very labour intensive/requires a major allocation of specialised manpower or less so; how survivable is this sprinter ?

 

[yaco]

Daresay reduction in GT teams from 9 to 8 will have sime impact on Ewan's participation in GT at Orica.

Confirmed that Haig will ride the Vuelta.

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Daresay reduction in GT teams from 9 to 8 will have sime impact on Ewan's participation in GT at Orica.

Confirmed that Haig will ride the Vuelta.

Only GT it would stop Ewan riding at Orica is the TDF

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Daresay reduction in GT teams from 9 to 8 will have sime impact on Ewan's participation in GT at Orica.

Confirmed that Haig will ride the Vuelta.

Only GT it would stop Ewan riding at Orica is the TDF

Disagree, it will most likely mitigate against his selection at ANY GT where Orica is seriously pursuing GC whilst he is at Orica. If the Giro proved nothing else, it was that Ewan was outpointed by bigger. stronger and more versatile riders like Gaviria and, to be more competitive, really needs far greater specialised support than Orica will be able to provide him whilst also pursuing GC ambitions.

Cut team numbers by one and it only brings it more into focus. He needs to find a team where he, and his ambitions, will be the team's primary focus for the race.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Orica-Scott for the Tour de France: Esteban Chaves, Simon Yates, Mat Hayman, Daryl Impey, Michael Albasini, Roman Kreuziger, Damien Howson, Jens Keukeleire and Luke Durbridge.