Jessica Zelinka

[Master50]

If body fat is a measure of doping then don't go and look for pictures of anorexic women. Go hang around Vancouver's east side and you will find lots of women that are this low on body fat.
There are women that can maintain this low level of Body fat without also being sick. Leslie Tomlinson always carried a 6 pack all the years she raced. Are things this slow in the clinic that we argue doping over their photographs?
Maybe the Olympics are important enough to get that lean for? eat less than you burn and the fat must come off. Some people are naturally leaner than others too.
Shouldn't these subjects have some standard for evidence? Next thing is you will be judging their looks. Oh that is already happening in my favourite thread. B on B.
Take the day off and go for a ride.

 

[Galic Ho]

[A break from the Sky washing machine, anyone? ]

So, I realise you have to do blood and urine tests during "glow time" to tell if someone is doping - and Galic Ho's brother is 1 cm taller than this woman and 8kg lighter (apparently) but any idea if this is what a 31 year old woman can expect to look like with dedicated training and a good diet?

August 2012 Olympic pent/dec/hept-athlete, Canadian, Jessica Zelinka, born 1981.

The huge Melissa Breen photo was an accident BTW. I am not trying to suggest something. I just picked a photo that google had that showed most of her musculature. If anyone wants I can remove it so viewing isn't absurd for this page. (Note addition; its now in proportion...thanks computer!) Forget this part.

Jessica Zelinka however has interesting times. 7th in the heptathlon and 100m hurdles finals. Remember Beijing? She's slower than Sally Pearson was there. Lolo Jones has dropped her times since then only running a high 12.5ish time. Is she clean? Maybe now, not in 2008 though. Pearson has grown a lot. Zelinka barely cracked 12.7 in the final. I really don't know what to make of her. She isn't a Dawn Harper (Jeter wannabe who is in turn a Flo Jo wannabe) but she still MADE an Olympic final. That says enough. Still quite behind Pearson who is well...yeah. Spoilers!

If Zelinka is doping, she's not doing what Pearson is doing. She could be the pointy end of what is possible clean. Hurdles are not the same as pure sprints. Anyone got her times for heptathlon stuff. Compare her to Ennis there. That girl is a poster child for doing well, getting close and then doping to win. Just like Pearson. Leave nothing to chance.

 

[Netserk]

The huge Melissa Breen photo was an accident BTW. I am not trying to suggest something. I just picked a photo that google had that showed most of her musculature. If anyone wants I can remove it so viewing isn't absurd for this page. (Note addition; its now in proportion...thanks computer!) Forget this part.

Jessica Zelinka however has interesting times. 7th in the heptathlon and 100m hurdles finals. Remember Beijing? She's slower than Sally Pearson was there. Lolo Jones has dropped her times since then only running a high 12.5ish time. Is she clean? Maybe now, not in 2008 though. Pearson has grown a lot. Zelinka barely cracked 12.7 in the final. I really don't know what to make of her. She isn't a Dawn Harper (Jeter wannabe who is in turn a Flo Jo wannabe) but she still MADE an Olympic final. That says enough. Still quite behind Pearson who is well...yeah. Spoilers!

If Zelinka is doping, she's not doing what Pearson is doing. She could be the pointy end of what is possible clean. Hurdles are not the same as pure sprints. Anyone got her times for heptathlon stuff. Compare her to Ennis there. That girl is a poster child for doing well, getting close and then doping to win. Just like Pearson. Leave nothing to chance.

I resized it for you

 

[Galic Ho]

I resized it for you

Cheers. That helped a lot. It was an accident posting that massive resolution. I looked at the samples on google images and picked the two best for her total body condition whilst stationary to use as a benchmark per se compared to the OP's pic of Zelinka. I forgot to check the full images resolution. I'll endeavor to remember this lesson.

 

[centri]

Going by some of the girls in our local crossfit gym, either they are doping or this girl isn't. But then again, I live in Spain, so they must be doping.

Hooray for logic!

Some of you have never trained hard in your life or...? Going by a photo is just lame. At least make and effort and get some numbers out.

 

[Fatclimber]

Going by some of the girls in our local crossfit gym, either they are doping or this girl isn't. But then again, I live in Spain, so they must be doping.

Hooray for logic!

Some of you have never trained hard in your life or...? Going by a photo is just lame. At least make and effort and get some numbers out.

Or simply eating the beef.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[goggalor]

Like anything else, such as winning the Tour, building muscle is easy if you cheat.

Dave.

It's also easy if you lift heavy, rest well and eat enough.

 

[arjanh]

Before anyone says darker skinned people are naturally faster than others I will politely say that is statistical nonsense. Jamaica has a population of 3 million people. Yeah, I am sure they're winning the genetic lottery these past 20 or so years since Ben Johnson because of a genetic evolutionary lottery. Before drugs, white men and women placed next to darker skinned folk in Olympics and worlds for over 60 years. I think in explosive sports, darker skinned people, particularly Jamaicans, respond to dope better. Get them all clean and we'll see lighter skinned people not beating the worlds best, but coming second to them. Just a personal opinion.

Interesting point of view, and you may be right. On the other hand, people from west-African descent tend to have a more muscular build. I'd think that would be an advantage in explosive sports.

 

[blackcat]

It's also easy if you lift heavy, rest well and eat enough.

but there is a trade off. a happy medium.

should be a rough rule of thumb, more muscle mass = positive correlation to higher bodyfat percentage

inverse correlation to speed/endurance.

Usain Bolt may have surpassed his peak weight for potential in the 100m. I am not physicist, but he has added about 3 or 4 kgs of pure lean muscle since Beijing. He has to accelerate that 4kgs up to terminal velocity. If that muscle his body has developed, has not increased his explosivity pro rata, he may never go quicker.

*some sport with type1 muscle demands obvious caveat

 

[Galic Ho]

Interesting point of view, and you may be right. On the other hand, people from west-African descent tend to have a more muscular build. I'd think that would be an advantage in explosive sports.

Actually it comes down to the types of muscle fibres a person has. There are 3 types for most intensive purposes. Your individual composition is what matters. For explosive sports you need lots of fast twitch fibres. The speed they fire at determines how fast you can potentially go. Nothing related to skin colour there. It is what is under the skin that matters. It's like saying black people cannot swim or cycle succesfully. Load of garbage, but they tend to not swim or cycle. Doesn't mean they couldn't if they tried. However in this case I am stating ATM they would appear to be benefiting massively from the current trends in doping. Economic and educational availability might also play a part in this with other racial groups foregoing a sporting career as they have other prospects.

Think about it. India and China combined have 2 billion people, maybe close to 2.5 billion if Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and ****stan are included. Imagine what they will do with time! That is about 35-40% of the worlds population and a lowly numbered group of Jamaicans make them look like nothing in sprinting. Even if the percentile of people in this large racial group who could be an Olympic finalist was 1 for every 10 ample Jamaicans, there is still statistically a world champion there. Just have to find them and in China's case, giving them lots of drugs is not an issue physically or ethically. They'll do it. Give them 10 years, things will start to change again.

Look at the 70s and 80s. Lots of white Europeans doping really well from Russia and East Germany. I'm sure they'd have loved at the time for everyone to believe they won the genetic lottery. It's not specific to one minor subset of the human race. Sure you can trace some inherently strong traits to certain genomes like Jamaica, even saying they have a higher percentile of said genome(s) that give a predisposition to conditional requirements for success. Never the less, other racially distinct groups will have these genes and muscle fibres. History has shown that time and again.

It's not about skin colour, race or where you grew up. Being the worlds best it's about what you were born with under the hood and how it is developed. My point is you will find people who can be in Olympic finals in every racial types populace. Getting them there is the first issue and then providing them the right training is how they win.

Drugs or no drugs won't change the economic factors either. IMO they're more important in determining who may even get identified and properly trained.

 

[sniper]

Interesting point of view, and you may be right. On the other hand, people from west-African descent tend to have a more muscular build. I'd think that would be an advantage in explosive sports.

basketball. need i say more?

 

[Galic Ho]

but there is a trade off. a happy medium.

should be a rough rule of thumb, more muscle mass = positive correlation to higher bodyfat percentage

inverse correlation to speed/endurance.

Usain Bolt may have surpassed his peak weight for potential in the 100m. I am not physicist, but he has added about 3 or 4 kgs of pure lean muscle since Beijing. He has to accelerate that 4kgs up to terminal velocity. If that muscle his body has developed, has not increased his explosivity pro rata, he may never go quicker.

*some sport with type1 muscle demands obvious caveat

It's scary that women aren't hitting Flo Jo's times from 88. They are still 0.1 behind her second best and 0.25 behind her WR. This Zelinka lady is no where near that ball park in times. Her hurdles time was over 0.3 behind Pearson in an event where technique rules, not brute power. Pearson has the fourth fastest time in history and the only recent time to crack 12.3 in 20 years. Interestingly the top 4 times are all white women.

Yet in the mens pure sprint since Seould, Bolt has done 9.58, a whole 0.2 faster than Ben Johnson went. Blake, Bolt, Gatlin, Gay and Powell have all gone faster. Add in Greene and Montgomery and it's glaringly obvious the drugs help men more than women in explosive sports. The womens 400m WR from Canberra back in 87 by a Russian woman still stands. Perec and Freeman never even came close. Over a second off for Perec and almost 2 for Freeman. Actually that event is a lot slower now than 10 years back.

The 100m is about 11 intervals. The start and each subsequent 10m of the race. Adding Ben Johnson's PB's for each together, his fastest possible time if he put them all together would have been 9.55 seconds. I am not shocked Bolt is close to that. I bet in training he and the other four big boys will all be running faster than they do in actual events. They'd be literally glowing red during training. Hot enough to set off any Geiger counter and then cool down for the event and whatever testing. I reckon Bolt can run 9.4 if he wants and the rest can crack 9.6 no trouble...high 9.5 so one or two if they get their heads right.

When the ladies start beating Flo Jo's times and those of the former Soviet bloc countries, then we should starting crapping our pants.

 

[Galic Ho]

basketball. need i say more?

Height. That is all. Plenty of tall people of every major racial grouping. Watch the Olympics for basketball and volleyball. White people grow big in a vertical sense as well. So do Asians (not as common though).

Tall white women...there are lots in certain European countries. They win all the medals in volleyball at the Olympics. Basketball success amongst African Americans comes down to availability and proximity. It's a desirable sport in America and playing can garner you a full college scholarship. That's the economics coming in. Fewer people elsewhere give a darn. That is why African Americans are over represented.

 

[Frosty]

When it comes to sprinting... i cant help but think that every kid in most communities runs around a lot, especially where sport is played, and someone who has exceptional ability will get noticed. Of course not all will want to make it big, maybe money in sports makes people more committed, etc.

Also, when it comes to training, how much difference do recent training techniques make? I would have thought that sprint training has probably not changed that much? You practice sprinting, work on specific sections, try to get rest to do more training, etc?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

It's scary that women aren't hitting Flo Jo's times from 88. They are still 0.1 behind her second best and 0.25 behind her WR. This Zelinka lady is no where near that ball park in times. Her hurdles time was over 0.3 behind Pearson in an event where technique rules, not brute power. Pearson has the fourth fastest time in history and the only recent time to crack 12.3 in 20 years. Interestingly the top 4 times are all white women.

Yet in the mens pure sprint since Seould, Bolt has done 9.58, a whole 0.2 faster than Ben Johnson went. Blake, Bolt, Gatlin, Gay and Powell have all gone faster. Add in Greene and Montgomery and it's glaringly obvious the drugs help men more than women in explosive sports. The womens 400m WR from Canberra back in 87 by a Russian woman still stands. Perec and Freeman never even came close. Over a second off for Perec and almost 2 for Freeman. Actually that event is a lot slower now than 10 years back.

The 100m is about 11 intervals. The start and each subsequent 10m of the race. Adding Ben Johnson's PB's for each together, his fastest possible time if he put them all together would have been 9.55 seconds. I am not shocked Bolt is close to that. I bet in training he and the other four big boys will all be running faster than they do in actual events. They'd be literally glowing red during training. Hot enough to set off any Geiger counter and then cool down for the event and whatever testing. I reckon Bolt can run 9.4 if he wants and the rest can crack 9.6 no trouble...high 9.5 so one or two if they get their heads right.

When the ladies start beating Flo Jo's times and those of the former Soviet bloc countries, then we should starting crapping our pants.

That is an embarrassingly opposite of astute conclusion. Androgenic drugs help women more than men...

...which explains why the men are doing better compared to historical marks.

 

[BroDeal]

I find it funny that anyone can think that athletes that compete in track and field at the top level could be clean. That sport is dirtier than cycling and has been that way for twice as long as cycling's EPO era.

 

[centri]

Or simply eating the beef.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Haha, no worries, I have been buying beef of late here, some Spanish and some Portugese of origin. BF is lowest ever...

 

[D-Queued]

I find it funny that anyone can think that athletes that compete in track and field at the top level could be clean. That sport is dirtier than cycling and has been that way for twice as long as cycling's EPO era.

Don't you mean 100 or 1,000 times as long?

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

Don't you mean 100 or 1,000 times as long?

Dave.

Nope. There was doping in cycling for a hundred years by EPO made an insurmountable difference. I think the same difference was made by steroids for track events a couple of decades earlier.

In other words, I don't know where the lines are drawn exactly but there is some line beyond which you were not going to win any major cycling event without EPO use and there is some line beyond which you were not going to win any significant short track event without steroid use.

 

[D-Queued]

Nope. There was doping in cycling for a hundred years by EPO made an insurmountable difference. I think the same difference was made by steroids for track events a couple of decades earlier.

In other words, I don't know where the lines are drawn exactly but there is some line beyond which you were not going to win any major cycling event without EPO use and there is some line beyond which you were not going to win any significant short track event without steroid use.

Ah, you were referring to steroids specifically.

Doping in athletics goes back to at least 776 BC. Well before the invention of the bicycle.

Opium and derivatives are ancient, as is coca.

Amphetamines were all the rage in the '30s.

Steroids were first used by Russian athletes in the 1950s.

Dave.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You guys think that Athenian who ran from Marathon to Athens was clean?

 

[sylvan]

Go look up a picture of any pro male athlete, at the beginning of their career, and hold it up next to the picture of a 30+ athlete in the same sport (who is also at the elite level)... you'll see the same kind of comparison... the development of muscle mass, and the reduction of body fat, takes years of elite training/diet/dedication.

This is so true. The haters here just don't understand. Here's a great example of a clean athlete making minor developments in his bodily composition and muskles over 5 years of dedicated training. The great Bruny Surin of Canada! I don't believe he ever tested positive. And he was never one of the absolutely elite 100 metre guys. You can tell it's the same guy by looking at his right knee. You can ONLY tell it's the same guy by looking at his right knee.

 

[FitSsikS]

Ah, you were referring to steroids specifically.

Doping in athletics goes back to at least 776 BC. Well before the invention of the bicycle.

Opium and derivatives are ancient, as is coca.

Amphetamines were all the rage in the '30s.

Steroids were first used by Russian athletes in the 1950s.

Dave.

Just a little bit more info for the young'ins:

Anabolic Steroids (as we now know them) came about in the late 50s (courtesy of CIBA) and at the same time were introduced to a select
group of American athletes by America's very own Dr John Ziegler.
1958 became a great year to aquire some 'roids' (actually Dianabol) and hit the weights....or buy a Les Paul.

 

[FitSsikS]

The great Bruny Surin of Canada! I don't believe he ever tested positive.

I hate to confess, I used a few nicknames back then (the Ben Johnson era):

Bruny Surin was Bringmy Suringe and Donovan Bailey became Dopedagain Daily.

....sorry.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You can tell it's the same guy by looking at his right knee. You can ONLY tell it's the same guy by looking at his right knee.

And his ears.