Jonas Vingegaard: Godzilla, the King of Monsters

[Froome]

He couldnt believe the watts he was putting out... after the radio broke.

Seems like someone panicked and rode much faster than the real intention was, when he didnt hear anything from the car anymore just to make sure.

He heard the password, it was enough.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The befuddling thing about that ITT was how close we expected it to be between the two; how close everyone else were at the first time-check before Pogi already totally demolished them and gave the impression of being on track for another PdBF performance; and then how despite the very fast time by Pogi, Vingegaard just went even faster - as in far faster compared to the rest than we could even imagine beforehand. It was totally cray cray.

And what was more comic was people saying Pogacar rode very slowly in corners (even if he was way faster than the rest) to justify the enormous difference Vingegaard put on Pogacar.

 

[Ripper]

And what was more comic was people saying Pogacar rode very slowly in corners (even if he was way faster than the rest) to justify the enormous difference Vingegaard put on Pogacar.

People said that? Lol

 

[SHAD0W93]

People said that? Lol

Said Pog rode the corners slow and wasn’t aerodynamic, plus him being on the limit with no base. It was a crazy month plus.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The befuddling thing about that ITT was how close we expected it to be between the two; how close everyone else were at the first time-check before Pogi already totally demolished them and gave the impression of being on track for another PdBF performance; and then how despite the very fast time by Pogi, Vingegaard just went even faster - as in far faster compared to the rest than we could even imagine beforehand. It was totally cray cray.

Yup, my impressions as well. Pogi's first time check gave me hopes but then...at first it seemed Vingo was less fluid on the bike but he just couldn't fully control his power!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-04-2022/lSTRmX.gif

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Even though I don't like the guy, he deserves credit for significant improvements in mental attributes. You can explain the improvement in physical attributes by 'clinic' factors, but not the mental ones. Otherwise Roglic would have improved at Jumbo.

Vingegaard seems to have been riding almost mistake-free since he became world-beater. I don't think it's a coincidence that Remco, Rog and Ayuso have already hit the asphalt in the Basque race, but he hasn't. He is simply stronger than his opponents in every aspect of the game.

edit: damn, jinxed

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Even though I don't like the guy, he deserves credit for significant improvements in mental attributes. You can explain the improvement in physical attributes by 'clinic' factors, but not the mental ones. Otherwise Roglic would have improved at Jumbo.

Vingegaard seems to have been riding almost mistake-free since he became world-beater. I don't think it's a coincidence that Remco, Rog and Ayuso have already hit the asphalt in the Basque race, but he hasn't. He is simply stronger than his opponents in every aspect of the game.

edit: damn, jinxed

Wow, jinx of epic proportions just one day before the big crash!

 

[Rackham]

It's obviously not funny (I was 'laughing' there at the irony of it all) but there's definitely a lesson here for fanboys: don't praise someone's bike handling & 'ability' to avoid crashes... because it'll bite you in the butt. No one is immune or safe. Everyone eventually hits the deck. Even Van der Poel (the greatest bike handler!) had a bad crash in the Olympics 3 years ago.

Vingegaard is quite aggressive with positioning in the bunch for what it's worth. He's always on the front at the end of sprint stages & has no real fear on descents. We'll see whether that changes after Itzulia when he eventually comes back.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Wow, jinx of epic proportions just one day before the big crash!

Yes, the timing of the comment was very unfortunate. But even so, I still think he improved a lot mentally. Two years ago he even crashed on ascent in Itzulia. Since then I can't remember him making any mistakes until now.

 

[Oldermanish]

People said that? Lol

His team also said it....You could see the splits and he had that course dialed in. He was also faster elsewhere but he held speed better.

 

[Oldermanish]

Yes, the timing of the comment was very unfortunate. But even so, I still think he improved a lot mentally. Two years ago he even crashed on ascent in Itzulia. Since then I can't remember him making any mistakes until now.

The crash was unfortunate and difficult for the best bike handlers to avoid. Most of the guys in the ditch got taken out by others panic-braking and sliding through the field. Wrong place, wrong time and a shame.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Vingegaard is quite aggressive with positioning in the bunch for what it's worth. He's always on the front at the end of sprint stages & has no real fear on descents. We'll see whether that changes after Itzulia when he eventually comes back.

Won't exactly be the first time in history, where daredevils transform into scarecrows, whereafter things go completely wrong for them on especially technical descents where confidence and a relaxed body are crucial essentials, while a stiff body and nervous handling result in a negative spiral as a consequence.

It takes a very special mindset to pretend like nothing happened and just keep flying down, right on the edge, like Jonas has done on several occasions up to Itzulia crash.

Regarding the Massacre in Combloux, maybe I'm not so much into an Apology of Socrates, however comparisons to justifications have been made.

In addition, I studied Pogi's riding style on the two previous alpine stages, despite him challenging Jonas on several occasions, my impression was that signs of fatigue were beginning to appear heading into the 3rd week (completely logical with Pogi's far from optimal preparations).
This conpared to a much Le Tour prepared Jonas who ½ year in advance mentioned that stages 16+17 would be the ones deciding the Tour, added by a final reconnaissance of the route on the rest day with close reading, while a pool boy just enjoyed life.

It takes quite a bit to discard it all...
(maybe with the aim of putting on the comfortable easy hat of no)

That said, I think - even with marginal gains diet and training optimizations - that the improvements we have witnessed over recent years are really startling, so I maintain my healthy skepticism, quite generally.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ppanther92]

People said that? Lol

I think Vingegaard actually wrote a super aggressive ITT. And probably the corners with more risk than Pogacar as well from the looks. So its not completely unreasonably to state this but its unreasonable to make it point that explains the huge gap. Its like what? 2-3s, maybe max 5s over a ITT...

 

[TrekCyclist]

I think Vingegaard actually wrote a super aggressive ITT. And probably the corners with more risk than Pogacar as well from the looks. So its not completely unreasonably to state this but its unreasonable to make it point that explains the huge gap. Its like what? 2-3s, maybe max 5s over a ITT...

Well, I think he gained 2s on the first corner alone already. So I'd assume he gained more like 20-30s from riding technique on the ITT.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Well, I think he gained 2s on the first corner alone already. So I'd assume he gained more like 20-30s from riding technique on the ITT.

Gaining on corners is not only about technique and taking risks but also about the power needed for speed before and for acceleration after. Unlimited power in case of that ITT!

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Well, I think he gained 2s on the first corner alone already. So I'd assume he gained more like 20-30s from riding technique on the ITT.

He only gained 31 seconds until the foot of the final climb in that TT, so this would mean he would have ridden a massive negative split.

 

[Red Rick]

He only gained 31 seconds until the foot of the final climb in that TT, so this would mean he would have ridden a massive negative split.

Maybe slightly, but not massively. What really happened was Pogacar shat his T2-T3 split with a bike change and then exploded in the T3-T4 split because he was on a roadbike having to do >30kph.

And I do think this TT required a negative pacing strategy, op at least leaving off the gas between T1 and T2, which is what Bilbao did and he was basically the best of the humans.

Meanwhile I have to give it to Ciccone for beating Vingegaard on the T2-T3 section. I know he took is super easy on the rest of the ITT, but it's still not trivial at all, and IMO it gives sort of an upper limit of how crazy Vingegaards ITT was.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Maybe slightly, but not massively. What really happened was Pogacar shat his T2-T3 split with a bike change and then exploded in the T3-T4 split because he was on a roadbike having to do >30kph.

And I do think this TT required a negative pacing strategy, op at least leaving off the gas between T1 and T2, which is what Bilbao did and he was basically the best of the humans.

Meanwhile I have to give it to Ciccone for beating Vingegaard on the T2-T3 section. I know he took is super easy on the rest of the ITT, but it's still not trivial at all, and IMO it gives sort of an upper limit of how crazy Vingegaards ITT was.

Nah, da Fishy da best!

 

[Froome]

Maybe slightly, but not massively. What really happened was Pogacar shat his T2-T3 split with a bike change and then exploded in the T3-T4 split because he was on a roadbike having to do >30kph.

And I do think this TT required a negative pacing strategy, op at least leaving off the gas between T1 and T2, which is what Bilbao did and he was basically the best of the humans.

Meanwhile I have to give it to Ciccone for beating Vingegaard on the T2-T3 section. I know he took is super easy on the rest of the ITT, but it's still not trivial at all, and IMO it gives sort of an upper limit of how crazy Vingegaards ITT was.

You almost convinced me that Vingegaard did an average TT.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

You almost convinced me that Vingegaard did an average TT.

Skeletor was lucky that Ciccone forgot to race for the remaining part of the TT. Otherwise he would've been crushed like an insect.

 

[topcat]

Maybe slightly, but not massively. What really happened was Pogacar shat his T2-T3 split with a bike change and then exploded in the T3-T4 split because he was on a roadbike having to do >30kph.

And I do think this TT required a negative pacing strategy, op at least leaving off the gas between T1 and T2, which is what Bilbao did and he was basically the best of the humans.

Meanwhile I have to give it to Ciccone for beating Vingegaard on the T2-T3 section. I know he took is super easy on the rest of the ITT, but it's still not trivial at all, and IMO it gives sort of an upper limit of how crazy Vingegaards ITT was.

Years of experience working for Sky PR.

 

[pastronef]

Years of experience working for Sky PR.

Sky would lose minutes these days

 

[Froome]

Sky would lose minutes these days

Thomas lost 8 minutes to Vingegaard in the Tour France 2022.

If froome was there in his prime, i would predict Froome 4 minutes behind Vingegaard.

 

[hrotha]

"PEDs and doping regimes keep getting better as science marches on and anti-doping pressures ease up, resulting in ever-increasing speeds, which means I can sleep tight at night in the belief that my guys weren't cheating every bit as egregiously as today's top riders, that their results were reasonable and fair, and that I alone in this forum was right all along. I will make sure to bring this up whenever possible, lest history remains unrevisioned, as if such a direct comparison was in any way meaningful"

 

[Cookster15]

"PEDs and doping regimes keep getting better as science marches on and anti-doping pressures ease up, resulting in ever-increasing speeds, which means I can sleep tight at night in the belief that my guys weren't cheating every bit as egregiously as today's top riders, that their results were reasonable and fair, and that I alone in this forum was right all along. I will make sure to bring this up whenever possible, lest history remains unrevisioned, as if such a direct comparison was in any way meaningful"

Who is that quote from? Interested to know why anti-doping pressures are "easing up"? Might depend on which country you are talking about. The best funded teams' doctors have worked out how to mask rider blood profiles with EPO microdosing to avoid any possibility of an adverse finding that would stand up in court. But even that approach isn't watertight should testers decide to get serious. Hence why, due to a conservative approach by the doctors, peloton climbing speeds generally still have not caught up to those of pre biological passport.

Always hard to compare climbs on different days due to weather, the course and race dynamics. But the Alpe is always a good benchmark IMO. When I read the top riders climbing Alpe D'Huez in the TdF in 38 minutes or less they are getting close - but there is also technological advancements. Even on an 8% climb at 22km/h there is a significant aero benefit from new equipment compared to the 90s. Vingo and Pogi took 39 minutes in 2022.

Fastest Alpe d'huez ascent in 16 years

Col du Galibier 2022:8,6 km@6,8%---23:45---average speed 21.73 km/h(Louis Meintjes) ---24:00---average spe...

www.climbing-records.com

Top 200 fastest climbs on the Alpe d'Huez [All-time list] [2022 update] - Cycling Passion

L'Alpe d'Huez is a legendary climb. It used regularly in the Tour de France. Here are the top 200 fastest climbs by bicycle on the Alpe d'Huez.

cycling-passion.com