Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[the delgados]

He actually went and said it.

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination​

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination

Second on GC at Tirreno-Adriatico, 21-year-old thinks he's on the right track

www.cyclingnews.com

One gets the sense that the lid is about to be blown off when fellow riders start chirping.
This has happened many times before in professional cycling, and it's not surprising it might be happening again. That's when commentators and journalists have no choice but to take notice.

 

[Ripper]

He actually went and said it.

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination​

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination

Second on GC at Tirreno-Adriatico, 21-year-old thinks he's on the right track

www.cyclingnews.com

Lol. He's just sore because he's getting his a$s kicked. Perhaps he should ask that of his own team and teammates

 

[Rackham]

The thing that really doesn't help Vingegaard's case is he has the phoniest of fake personalities I've seen in pro cycling in a long time. He's got one defining character trait: blows kisses for his family when he demolishes the field again, again & again. So much emotion I might just shed a tear.

 

[meat puppet]

Would be interesting if there develops a contradiction between at least part of the peloton (who are at the receiving end of mutant performances) and the majority of casual fans (who applaud the mutant performances, pick their "tribes" etc).

 

[Blobs]

One gets the sense that the lid is about to be blown off when fellow riders start chirping.
This has happened many times before in professional cycling, and it's not surprising it might be happening again. That's when commentators and journalists have no choice but to take notice.

I doubt UAE will be interested in blowing the lid off anything, as 80% of their success comes their own special alien.

 

[Netserk]

The thing that really doesn't help Vingegaard's case is he has the phoniest of fake personalities I've seen in pro cycling in a long time. He's got one defining character trait: blows kisses for his family when he demolishes the field again, again & again. So much emotion I might just shed a tear.

He's cringe, but I wouldn't call him phoney. I think of it as a learned (and genuine) mannerism to cope with being on public display, as he is quite shy and anxious.

In a sense, I think it's also just mentally easier for him to always deliver and win, so I don't think we'll ever see him hanging back and let others get their share of the spoils.

 

[Red Rick]

Tbh I don't read Ayuso's comment as that salty. More of an acknowledgments that there's 5 dudes that win all the big races they enter and that in that case it's not a bad result to be 2nd.

 

[Rackham]

He's cringe, but I wouldn't call him phoney. I think of it as a learned (and genuine) mannerism to cope with being on public display, as he is quite shy and anxious.

In a sense, I think it's also just mentally easier for him to always deliver and win, so I don't think we'll ever see him hanging back and let others get their share of the spoils.

I think he's Lady MacBeth.

He's a killer on the bike. An absolute win at all costs "do whatever it takes" sort of rider who is hyper aggressive on the road & hyper motivated to be the biggest champion in statistical terms. He'll set out to crush everything & everyone, again, again & again. But he's also self-aware of his image & the image he projects i.e. he craves 'the love of the people'. There's a lot of PR involved & I reckon his manager (his wife) plays quite a big role in shaping his public persona. Hence the family stuff laid on thick.

He's a 2024 heavily curated & tightly marketed version of Lance Armstrong. I think the only people who came close to the 'truth' were Netflix, ironically. In their TdF documentary they showed him for what he was: very selfish, self-centered & almost having an anxiety attack because Wout van Aert 'dared' race for someone other than his Majesty Vingegaard.

I thought that was a hilariously close to shining a real light on the personality involved in an otherwise quite mundane & 'safe' series.

 

[Netserk]

He's a killer on the bike. An absolute win at all costs "do whatever it takes" sort of rider who is hyper aggressive on the road & hyper motivated to be the biggest champion in statistical terms. He'll set out to crush everything & everyone, again, again & again. But he's also self-aware of his image & the image he projects i.e. he craves 'the love of the people'. There's a lot of PR involved & I reckon his manager (his wife) plays quite a big role in shaping his public persona. Hence the family stuff laid on thick.

Fair enough to interpret him like that, but that is not at all my read of him.

 

[The Clogger]

I think he's Lady MacBeth.

He's a killer on the bike. An absolute win at all costs "do whatever it takes" sort of rider who is hyper aggressive on the road & hyper motivated to be the biggest champion in statistical terms. He'll set out to crush everything & everyone, again, again & again. But he's also self-aware of his image & the image he projects i.e. he craves 'the love of the people'. There's a lot of PR involved & I reckon his manager (his wife) plays quite a big role in shaping his public persona. Hence the family stuff laid on thick.

He's a 2024 heavily curated & tightly marketed version of Lance Armstrong. I think the only people who came close to the 'truth' were Netflix, ironically. In their TdF documentary they showed him for what he was: very selfish, self-centered & almost having an anxiety attack because Wout van Aert 'dared' race for someone other than his Majesty Vingegaard.

I thought that was a hilariously close to shining a real light on the personality involved in an otherwise quite mundane & 'safe' series.

I diasgree that he always was a killer on the bike. If that was true, he would have better results earlier in his career. Instead we have plenty of former teammates and sports directors who calls him very lazy and not very serious, yet talented.

I don't think he is natural aggressive either, he learned that at Visma. He is not a born racer unlike riders as Mads Pedersen, Pogacar etc. He 'learned' to be aggressive simply because he is a better rider than most of his competitors, I bet you'll see him riding defensively in July when Pogacar will attack him again and again.

Winning almost all races he participates in is the new normal. MvdP, Van Aert, Evenepoel and Pogacar did it before him, so why shouldn't he be able to do the same when he obviously have the watts to do it. It's not like he was a first mover on that part - far from it. I bet Visma has shaped him in many areas.

I find it very interesting how you try to depict as some self-centered cynic, when I have the complete opposite image of him. If he was who you really think he is, he would have taken the Vuelta win for himself most def. Instead, I'm rather confident he is just shy, extremely introverted and personally I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the spectrum on some level.

He really do loves his family, and I truly believe they mean everything for the man. It gives him that deeper connection he never was able to have with other people, mainly because of his personal characteristics.

He is not exciting as a person, not charismatic, and he will never be good at standing in front of the camera. I do think he is just being himself, and I would expect nothing else. This is cycling after all, not an episode of The Kardashians.

Edit: My point is that Visma has shaped him in many areas. This is also the impression you get when you have listened to interviews and podcasts with former teammates, current teammates and the sports directors at Visma. Everyone agrees that he has taken huge steps and developed enormously since he came to Visma, both personally and as a rider. This is why the takt that he always was some self-centered and ruthless killer is wrong and dumb.

 

[Red Rick]

Welcome to the Jonas Vingegaard Clinic thread - the home of armchair psychologists on the internet.

 

[Rackham]

Fair enough to interpret him like that, but that is not at all my read of him.

I diasgree that he always was a killer on the bike.

I take your viewpoints into consideration & respect them. No problem. We'll see as the years go by, i.e. like with others in the past, the big picture starts to emerge after a continued period of dominance.

I simply have good reason to see Vingegaard's character on the bike as uniquely Vingegaard's (& his wife's), i.e. not Jumbo's or Visma's. I followed that team closely for years & everyone was pretty much in the same mould, be it Van Aert, Rog, Kruijswijk & the rest. Even Groenewegen. No different than other riders in other teams.

The most I'm willing to concede is there's a touch of Grischa Niermann in the way he races, i.e. "show the world who the strongest is" with some hysteria involved & constant stress (every single clip of Niermann in the car or radio message is stressed as hell). It's Vinge's only weakness as well, i.e. panicking when the situation isn't on rails.

Welcome to the Jonas Vingegaard Clinic thread - the home of armchair psychologists on the internet.

Welcome to modern pro-sports where the plebeians are asked to simply consume & not think.

I mean following this sort of logic the same could have been said about Lance Armstrong when everyone was calling him a d*ck. He was... a d*ck. Michael Schumacher was a massive d*ck. Djokovic is also a d*ck. I think Nadal is as well for what it's worth but he seems to hide it better. Hell, I think Federer was a self absorbed A-hole based on plenty of his bitter remarks after a defeat. The man had an ego the size of Switzerland.

So... I think I'm being pretty light on Vingegaard here. For what it's worth the eternal king of a-holes in cycling is the bunny killer aka Chris Froome. He took it to whole new levels.

Vingegaard is nowhere near that bad... yet.

 

[Extinction]

I think he's Lady MacBeth.

He's a killer on the bike. An absolute win at all costs "do whatever it takes" sort of rider who is hyper aggressive on the road & hyper motivated to be the biggest champion in statistical terms. He'll set out to crush everything & everyone, again, again & again. But he's also self-aware of his image & the image he projects i.e. he craves 'the love of the people'. There's a lot of PR involved & I reckon his manager (his wife) plays quite a big role in shaping his public persona. Hence the family stuff laid on thick.

He's a 2024 heavily curated & tightly marketed version of Lance Armstrong. I think the only people who came close to the 'truth' were Netflix, ironically. In their TdF documentary they showed him for what he was: very selfish, self-centered & almost having an anxiety attack because Wout van Aert 'dared' race for someone other than his Majesty Vingegaard.

I thought that was a hilariously close to shining a real light on the personality involved in an otherwise quite mundane & 'safe' series.

He should just f-all what people might think and destroy. He doesn't need to apologize. Otherwise they all need to apologize. The sooner he learns this, the better.

 

[nightowl]

Yeah, I think this takes the cake for the craziest clinic conspiracy theory out there.

 

[meat puppet]

Notwithstanding the cringe-worthy (gender) theorising, is Vingo's main fault that his public persona is not ruthless enough, that it is too ruthless, that he is ruthless on the road but not so much after it, or that he became each and/or any of these things after joining visma*?

Understanding this would make it easier to keep up with the thread.

Me, I'm old fashioned in that I just think he is on a very good program and an entirely forgettable personality (a positive quality in my book).

* Read: immorally put up a fight and actually won over Pogi, and tore poor Primoz a new one while he was at it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He actually went and said it.

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination​

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination

Second on GC at Tirreno-Adriatico, 21-year-old thinks he's on the right track

www.cyclingnews.com

Finally an insider confirming my artificial life hypothesis!

 

[pelotonIQ]

I find it very interesting how you try to depict as some self-centered cynic, when I have the complete opposite image of him. If he was who you really think he is, he would have taken the Vuelta win for himself most def. Instead, I'm rather confident he is just shy, extremely introverted and personally I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the spectrum on some level.

***. Stage 17 Angliru, Vingegaard tried to pull a sneaky one and ''accidentally'' ride himself into the red jersey. Mikel Landa shook his head in disappointment at how Kuss was treated by his team and towed him to the finish thus keeping him in red.

 

[Brullnux]

He actually went and said it.

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination​

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination

Second on GC at Tirreno-Adriatico, 21-year-old thinks he's on the right track

www.cyclingnews.com

I think you're reading a bit too much into this lol, this is a phrase that's used all the time in sporting contexts, even when there's almost certainly no doping involved (people use this to refer to Verstappen). I very, very, very much doubt that this is Ayuso publicly casting a suspicious eye towards Visma/Vingegaard.

 

[Netserk]

You don't think drivers dope?!

 

[shadowrider]

You don't think drivers dope?!

Of course they do. That's another taboo.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

I don't know what drug helps F1 drivers go faster when 90% of the races are tyre and fuel saving and the drivers go as slow as possible.

Mechanical doping has a much greater impact on performance in motorsport. It is very common in go-kart racing for little kids, or in F1 feeder series, especially in the old German F3 Euro. Just remember how Schumacher's kid won there, or how rich kid Stroll was disqualified from several races for developing his car in an F1 team's wind tunnel.

But in F1 there's nothing to hide, if you're *** then you stay ***, as these two have proved.

 

[shadowrider]

I don't know what drug helps F1 drivers go faster when 90% of the races are tyre and fuel saving and the drivers go as slow as possible.

Mechanical doping has a much greater impact on performance in motorsport. It is very common in go-kart racing for little kids, or in F1 feeder series, especially in the old German F3 Euro. Just remember how Schumacher's kid won there, or how rich kid Stroll was disqualified from several races for developing his car in an F1 team's wind tunnel.

But in F1 there's nothing to hide, if you're *** then you stay ***, as these two have proved.

Of course there are drugs helping F1 drivers to go fast. F1 is a very physically demanding sport. Also in the field of concentration, substances (drugs) are used to become and remain extremely alert and focused. Substances that are even prohibited outside of sport.

The problem is that all authorities involved in F1 sport cover up doping use. There is also no independent doping authority that carries out serious and unannounced doping controls

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Of course there are drugs helping F1 drivers to go fast. F1 is a very physically demanding sport. Also in the field of concentration, substances (drugs) are used to become and remain extremely alert and focused. Substances that are even prohibited outside of sport.

The problem is that all authorities involved in F1 sport cover up doping use. There is also no independent doping authority that carries out serious and unannounced doping controls

I don't know how familiar you are with F1. Maybe you just don't understand what you're watching. The physical challenge of modern F1 is very limited. Compared to the early 2000s, when cars were much smaller and lighter and had less electronic assistance, today's F1 is more like a kid's game.

Even compared to the F2 now, the F1 is much less demanding due to the power steering system and the huge downforce.

F1 drivers might do 1-2 laps on the limit in qualifying in Q3. Besides, the race is all about going just fast enough to save the tyres. Drivers tend to get bored during the race. So it's completely driving skill-dependent rather than a physical performance. You don't have to be a superhuman to take the load of 3G or 4G around the corner.

Btw, you seem to be confusing F1 with lame American sports. Just because F1 has horrible American owners now and they are doing a complete shitshow. It is still a European sport and operates under the FIA. National anti-doping agencies and WADA test constantly, there is ADAMS system, out-of-competition testing...

 

[frenchfry]

He actually went and said it.

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination​

‘I'm the first human in this race’ - runner-up Juan Ayuso on Vingegaard’s domination

Second on GC at Tirreno-Adriatico, 21-year-old thinks he's on the right track

www.cyclingnews.com

This is pretty rich from a guy who rides for a team directed by Mauro Gianetti and who's team leader is pretty much the number 1 overall mutant.

 

[meat puppet]

All about optics, yo. In the road racing forum Giannetti is touted as the best talent scout there is.

While I don't doubt that he has his ways to perform in ("ex ante") talent spotting, I would nevertheless surmise that his CV suggests even greater skills in ("ex post") talent, um, nurturing.