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Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen, the new alpha mutant

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Cookster15

Cookster15

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Froome said:
I was talking about beating the record in a TT like in the Tour France 2004.

Beating the record after a hard stage, i'm not that sure they can do it.
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In 2004 many predicted Lance would beat Pantani's record. But he still fell nearly a minute short.

Also in 1995 (stage 10) which was 162km they rode the Madeleine and Croix de Fer before the Alpe. And stage 10 was the 3rd day in the Alpes (stage 9 finished at La Plagne) so they certainly were not fresh. But looking at those results its clear Indurain was a beast for his consistency in the mountains.
 
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Cookster15 said:
In 2004 many predicted Lance would beat Pantani's record. But he still fell nearly a minute short.

Also in 1995 (stage 10) which was 162km they rode the Madeleine and Croix de Fer before the Alpe. And stage 10 was the 3rd day in the Alpes (stage 9 finished at La Plagne) so they certainly were not fresh. But looking at those results its clear Indurain was a beast for his consistency in the mountains.
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1995 was top-fuel drag racing at its best. Pantani broke the Alpe record while 80-kg Miguleon dropped all tiny cilmbers during his 500+ watts legendary La Plagne ride. Can you imagine a bull heavier than MVP doing such stuff today?
 
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Cookster15

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Krzysztof_O said:
Most powerful rider ever, the combination of amazing TT power and climbing speed makes him arguably the best GT rider ever. No results in classics though.
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Indurain never targeted classics. In 1993 Indurain finished 2nd in the world road race behind Lance, in a year he was targeting the triple (Giro/TdF/Worlds).

Yet, even today I read comments from people claiming Indurain couldn't climb or was just hanging on? Too lazy to search the internet? I was a Rominger fan back then when I first started following the sport but came to admire Indurain for his pure strength.

There is an excerpt in Wiki about Indurain's physiology and tests they did in 2012 when he was 46. Still a beast. So it wasn't only EPO.

On his TT, it was Indurain's ride in 1992 TdF stage 9 ride at Luxembourg when he was first called "extraterrestrial". When the Danish media claimed Vingegaard rode the "greatest TT ever" in last years Tour I just laughed.
 
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Cookster15

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Tim Cahill said:
Miguel's resting heart rate was 28 BPM, basically unheard of, perhaps the fittest athlete in history in his prime. He doped but wasn't an arsehole about it, you don't see federal authorities calling grand juries trying to jack up Miguel Indurain.
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Yes, everyone liked Miguel the humble Spaniard - especially towards the end of his reign. The other incredible stat I recall reading somewhere was his heart rate could be 195 finishing MTFs - 60 seconds later his heart rate fell to under 60. Mind boggling recovery.
 
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Cookster15 said:
Indurain never targeted classics. In 1993 Indurain finished 2nd in the world road race behind Lance, in a year he was targeting the triple (Giro/TdF/Worlds).

Yet, even today I read comments from people claiming Indurain couldn't climb or was just hanging on? Too lazy to search the internet? I was a Rominger fan back then when I first started following the sport but came to admire Indurain for his pure strength.

There is an excerpt in Wiki about Indurain's physiology and tests they did in 2012 when he was 46. Still a beast. So it wasn't only EPO.

On his TT, it was Indurain's ride in 1992 TdF stage 9 ride at Luxembourg when he was first called "extraterrestrial". When the Danish media claimed Vingegaard rode the "greatest TT ever" in last years Tour I just laughed.
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His TT in 1992 was better than Jonas? I read a lot that vingo TT was best ever. fans,specialist,hell dumoulin call it best TT ever right after the stage
 
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Tim Cahill said:
Miguel's resting heart rate was 28 BPM, basically unheard of, perhaps the fittest athlete in history in his prime. He doped but wasn't an arsehole about it, you don't see federal authorities calling grand juries trying to jack up Miguel Indurain.
Click to expand...

Not everyone is like Armstrong looking for enemies. Big Mig was a calm guy, rarely contested mountain stages and was generous giving stages. Teddy Merckx is also nice but to emulate Miguleon he needs to give some stages to inferior riders and fix his relation with Van Baarle.
 
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Froome

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Krzysztof_O said:
Not everyone is like Armstrong looking for enemies. Big Mig was a calm guy, rarely contested mountain stages and was generous giving stages. Teddy Merckx is also nice but to emulate Miguleon he needs to give some stages to inferior riders and fix his relation with Van Baarle.
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In my opinion, Indurain, Pantani, Armstrong were all talented guys, who where the most strongest, even with all the EPO they took.

I only have a problem with Armstrong because he was a bully, always looking for enemies.
 
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Red Rick said:
It's not like the best athlete when you assume everyone's doping equally - which is a gigantic if - is also the same as the best athlete when everyone is clean, cause you simply introduce the addictional variable and talent of your own doping response.

But I agree Armstrongs insane hubris was his downfall. None of the other dopers were villified as much
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He had a Machiavellian desire to break his opposition off the bike as well. Any rider that left his subserviency for another team was almost immediately under drug scrutiny by Armstrong and Weisel's UCI buddies. He also had to pay back an insurance company for buying races that netted him an insurance payout. That's just outright criminality.
He also wasn't the strongest US rider. He was scared sh*tless of Chris Horner and effectively helped blacklist him with Carmichael's help.
Chris took his own path and succeeded, however you view that career. As a younger guy with the resources that were dedicated to Motorola...and on: he would have a good chance at any GT.
 
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Oldermanish said:
He had a Machiavellian desire to break his opposition off the bike as well. Any rider that left his subserviency for another team was almost immediately under drug scrutiny by Armstrong and Weisel's UCI buddies. He also had to pay back an insurance company for buying races that netted him an insurance payout. That's just outright criminality.
He also wasn't the strongest US rider. He was scared sh*tless of Chris Horner and effectively helped blacklist him with Carmichael's help.
Chris took his own path and succeeded, however you view that career. As a younger guy with the resources that were dedicated to Motorola...and on: he would have a good chance at any GT.
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Yeah. When people say it's ridiculous Armstrong gets *** "cause everyone doped" I really think of "yeah but not everyone was a complete psychopath like he is".

If I ever see clips of him on his podcast he's just such a salty ***. Like Hincapie just gets off on mentioning Contador to piss Armstrong off
 
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Cookster15

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Oldermanish said:
He also wasn't the strongest US rider. He was scared sh*tless of Chris Horner and effectively helped blacklist him with Carmichael's help.
Chris took his own path and succeeded, however you view that career. As a younger guy with the resources that were dedicated to Motorola...and on: he would have a good chance at any GT.
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Chris Horner is a much nicer human than Armstrong. But let's be honest, Horner doped big time. A big transformation marked his career progression.

When riding for Lotto in 2007 Horner couldn't hold Cadel Evans's wheel in the mountains. Then poor Cadel struggled to stay with his former teammate on MTFs when Horner moved to Armstrong's team (Astana) and became "2nd best climber in the world". Nice guy but a very obvious beneficiary of doping culminating in that embarrassing Vuelta victory on the Angliru when he was nearly 42.

 
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Cookster15

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Peyroteo94 said:
Jumbo are so quiet that I think Vingegaard will come stronger than ever, that guy is a beast. A iron machine doped to the gills and recovered to be in shape to the Tour
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Are you aware of his injuries? I am not sure the team or any amount of doping can overturn medical science and human physiology. Pog was impacted by his LBL fall last year. Well Vingegaard's injuries are far worse.
 
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Froome

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Cookster15 said:
Chris Horner is a much nicer human than Armstrong. But let's be honest, Horner doped big time. A big transformation marked his career progression.

When riding for Lotto in 2007 Horner couldn't hold Cadel Evans's wheel in the mountains. Then poor Cadel struggled to stay with his former teammate on MTFs when Horner moved to Armstrong's team (Astana) and became "2nd best climber in the world". Nice guy but a very obvious beneficiary of doping culminating in that embarrassing Vuelta victory on the Angliru when he was nearly 42.

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I don't understand how he didn't lost the Vuelta 2013 until today like Cobo lost.

Probably the biggest joke ever in cycling, winning the Vuelta with 41 years. I can't understand how they didn’t find nothing.
 
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Krzysztof_O

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Froome said:
I don't understand how he didn't lost the Vuelta 2013 until today like Cobo lost.

Probably the biggest joke ever in cycling, winning the Vuelta with 41 years. I can't understand how they didn’t find nothing.
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Papa Horner was riding paniagua the whole career except Coca-Cola during that Vuelta. Otherwise Armstrong would have won zero TdF on the road.
 
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