Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[TheMight]

Jonas says that he doesn't take anything he wouldn't give to his 2 yo daughter

Is it bad the implication I took from this is that he is also doping his daughter and grooming her to be a mutant cyclist already?

Well, maybe not groom her so much as he believes it is "medicine" or "nutrition" and since it does come from a doctor or some sort of para-doctor, it must be "good..." and how can you perform like him and not be "healthy?"

Don't underestimate the psychological aspect. With all the stuff that came out from the earlier part of this century, "guilt" is a factor that has a cost.

 

[Rackham]

This is the sort of blowback & fallout (pun intended eh) Jumbo can expect after Tuesday's demolition job, i.e. an opinion poll in Le Figaro currently has 43 000 votes, of which 74% answered "yes" to the question "do you think Jonas Vingegaard's performances are suspect?" https://www.lefigaro.fr/sports/dopa...egaard-vous-semblent-elles-suspectes-20230720

That's a fairly large sample in a mainstream news site which gives a hint at how Jumbo's Tour is perceived by casual viewers in France.

 

[Vudy]

It's good that the tour is only 3 weeks. If it were more, Jonas would do 9 w/kg, based on his superior recovery.

 

[lenric]

It's good that the tour is only 3 weeks. If it were more, Jonas would do 9 w/kg, based on his superior recovery.

imagine if the tour were like 6 months of racing. in the last week he'd be pulling all the peloton with a rope, cars and motorbikes included.

 

[Salvarani]

imagine if the tour were like 6 months of racing. in the last week he'd be pulling all the peloton with a rope, cars and motorbikes included.

Vinge could probably produce electricity and power up whole cities, just riding his bike all day long.

A bit selfish that he only settles to win the Tour. His powers are much greater.

 

[lenric]

Vinge could probably produce electricity and power up whole cities, just riding his bike all day long.

A bit selfish that he only settles to win the Tour. His powers are much greater.

oh I didn't see that coming, but that's actually a pretty good idea and the solution for germany's energy problems. they just have to pay denmark for vingegaard and they'll get cheap energy again

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vinge could probably produce electricity and power up whole cities, just riding his bike all day long.

A bit selfish that he only settles to win the Tour. His powers are much greater.

I'm sure Vingegaard family doesn't have to pay for electricity when Vinge is home.

 

[Salvarani]

I'm sure Vingegaard family doesn't have to pay for electricity when Vinge is home.

He steps in and all the lights probably start glowing.

 

[lenric]

He steps in and all the lights probably start glowing.

guess who's who...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar as the new Pou Pou ? Who would have thought that in 2021. I do hope Pogacar does try for the Giro as Italy in May could suit him more then the Alps in July.

He's the new Merckx facing an upgraded Ocana.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Very interesting reaction to all of this, can see they took it a bit too far this week as the reaction isn't just among the usual crowd on here who have seen too many winters and need somewhere to vent. DS's and riders also appear sceptical, although they won't risk litigation;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681931277983793152

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Except that he's won the Tour. Tice. Poulidor never did. But apart from that ... hardly.

A two-time winner like Fignon would be more appropriate,. Or even the blessèd Gino - all he has to do is sit home doing nothing and then convince people he was in the resistance and saved the lives of thousands of people.

I don't think it's meant to be a pure 1:1 comparison. Arguably Ullrich became a much more sympathetic figure after being crowned as a young prodigy that would win Tour after Tour only for this never happening. If Pogacar gets dusted every time, I think that's certainly possible it will garner underdog points (especially since Pogacar is by all accounts, fairly personable).

That said maybe the Poulidor allegory is a little overused.

Honestly I wonder if it wouldn't be smarter for Pogacar to duck Vingo and go try his hand at the Giro or Vuelta. But the commercial pull of the Tour and their Olympian rivalry is going to be too alluring for everyone, I fear.

Also Vingegaard alone, if he pulls another one like that, might be a little too lopsided for a good spectacle.

 

[magliaroz]

oh I didn't see that coming, but that's actually a pretty good idea and the solution for germany's energy problems. they just have to pay denmark for vingegaard and they'll get cheap energy again

There are some concearns about radioactive waste, but Jumbo specialists swear they are working on the problem and they are sure the next model is going to be even better.

 

[lenric]

There are some concearns about radioactive waste, but Jumbo specialists swear they are working on the problem and they are sure the next model is going to be even better.

or next year in july you'll see this is france

 

[burning]

Jonas says that he doesn't take anything he wouldn't give to his 2 yo daughter

Is it bad the implication I took from this is that he is also doping his daughter and grooming her to be a mutant cyclist already?

I'd think that a moto bike is a far more reasonable guess in this case. It's actually not problematic to put your daughter on a moto bike

 

[NFTtiddies]

Blood passport manipulation still doesn't make any sense to me, unless beating 55% hematocrits falls within BP range

I'm not sure they would need to be over 50% to explain the performances we are seeing. The thing is, bike tech, aerodynamics, training improvement, and nutrition are all making a difference. Just not enough of a difference to explain these records while claiming the riders are on bread and water. But I think if you combine all of the honest gains above with a basic micro-dosing/bb regiment, then its feasible that someone could beat the records of the mid 90s at a hematocrit of say 48%.

But as I said in an early post- I think there are substances out there that have nothing to do with RBCs. Take AICAR for example. Our body produces it naturally. It is very hard to detect. I tried to google and find a single positive test for it and could not. The scientific consensus is that AICAR would be very performance enhancing, so I find it hard to believe it is not being used. Who knows what other drugs are out there which act of the mitochondria like AICAR.

Rasmussen has shared his blood values before, and he linked to them again after this TT.

https://imgur.com/a/YOzmF99

You definitely do not need to be over 50% for HCT.

 

[houtdffan]

the main issue for Vingegaard and Jumbo is this is the same team that let the last Rasmussen get away with using cow blood for an advantage

 

[burning]

Rasmussen has shared his blood values before, and he linked to them again after this TT.

https://imgur.com/a/YOzmF99

You definitely do not need to be over 50% for HCT.

If these numbers are true, they are actually fascinating. You can easily see the difference in 2007 TDF, i.e., his HCT and hemoglobin rising through the race instead of falling. It's also funny that he's one of the guys that never tested positive.

 

[Salvarani]

Every alarm possible has literally gone off, but a lot of people want to look the other way. In some sort of stance that everything is fine and thats what it is.

 

[Riek s]

Rasmussen has shared his blood values before, and he linked to them again after this TT.

https://imgur.com/a/YOzmF99

You definitely do not need to be over 50% for HCT.

one can also see more clearly that in 2005 (giro/tdf), 2007(tdf) he doped for sure just based on those values.

less obvious in the vuelta/tdf in 2006. (where he does seem to have a drop before the TDF for blood bag storage?)


But based on those numbers he isn't flagged. Would be good to know those of the current riders. (even though it is not sure that the current doping manifest themselves in the same way). But if one had a data point of every day... things should give a picture.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Jumbo Fraud

Every alarm possible has literally gone off, but a lot of people want to look the other way. In some sort of stance that everything is fine and thats what it is.

Exactly this right here. No point wasting more time explaining the obvious to people who need the obvious explained to them.

 

[Rob5091]

https://www.corriere.it/sport/ciclismo/23_luglio_20/vingegaard-pogacar-quarto-controllo-antidoping-tour-82a44f2c-2674-11ee-8645-4a254f4192ac.shtml?refresh_ce
" "Tadej attacked me for 15 days," Vingegaard explained, "and from his aggressiveness I understood that at some point he would collapse. Those who shoot too much are insecure, spend a lot and pay in the end.""
So it's the same tactic as used before of Jumbo pushing Pogacar and blowing himself up by being too agressive. Which makes me wonder what condition Vingegaard must have to hang on for 15 days and then blow everyone away in the TT.

Edit add - I wonder too what would have happened if the TT was before the rest day and not after. The Giro I praised for doing that (stage 9) but the Tour seems to stick to post rest day for some reason.

 

[Vudy]

https://www.corriere.it/sport/ciclismo/23_luglio_20/vingegaard-pogacar-quarto-controllo-antidoping-tour-82a44f2c-2674-11ee-8645-4a254f4192ac.shtml?refresh_ce
" "Tadej attacked me for 15 days," Vingegaard explained, "and from his aggressiveness I understood that at some point he would collapse. Those who shoot too much are insecure, spend a lot and pay in the end.""
So it's the same tactic as used before of Jumbo pushing Pogacar and blowing himself up by being too agressive. Which makes me wonder what condition Vingegaard must have to hang on for 15 days and then blow everyone away in the TT.

He just took the corners brilliantly... And had an aerodynamic position on his bike when climbing... I guess he must have been bitten by a radioactive fish in the factory which gave him superpowers. He knew it would be minutes in the end, so he's clairvoyant too.

 

[Salvarani]

https://www.corriere.it/sport/ciclismo/23_luglio_20/vingegaard-pogacar-quarto-controllo-antidoping-tour-82a44f2c-2674-11ee-8645-4a254f4192ac.shtml?refresh_ce
" "Tadej attacked me for 15 days," Vingegaard explained, "and from his aggressiveness I understood that at some point he would collapse. Those who shoot too much are insecure, spend a lot and pay in the end.""
So it's the same tactic as used before of Jumbo pushing Pogacar and blowing himself up by being too agressive. Which makes me wonder what condition Vingegaard must have to hang on for 15 days and then blow everyone away in the TT.

Exactly... and he followed him for 15 days. Vinge would have probably been stumped by that question.

 

[proffate]

I have trouble believing that Pogacar did hit his numbers though. If that is the case and Vingegaard had this level in his back pocket the whole time, he's been sandbagging since Marie Blanque which seems like a very high risk approach given that something could've gone wrong at any time and he had no buffer at all.

But if you have this level in your back pocket then you don't need a buffer.