Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[daking123]

Further proof he's had by far the most doped performances since 2021, I imagine if Visma had tried to keep up his Tour-program up continuously the past years, he'd be dead by now.

Or he had one of the hardest ride schedules in the peloton and actually acted like a normal human being. I’m not saying he isn’t doped, but it’s refreshing to see someone not peak all year round.

 

[Unchained]

Or he had one of the hardest ride schedules in the peloton and actually acted like a normal human being. I’m not saying he isn’t doped, but it’s refreshing to see someone not peak all year round.

He rode a disgrace of a race. Had he made the trip to Rwanda, been doing lots of post Vuelta leftovers.. Okay. Instead he has been sofa surfing since Vuelta..he embarrassed himself by doing pre race media and then doesn't show up.
Bjarne Riis is spot on..

 

[scribers]

Or he had one of the hardest ride schedules in the peloton and actually acted like a normal human being. I’m not saying he isn’t doped, but it’s refreshing to see someone not peak all year round.

It’s refreshing to see someone only doped up in July? Haha

I miss the Armstrong era too

 

[daking123]

It’s refreshing to see someone only doped up in July? Haha

I miss the Armstrong era too

Yeah that’s where we are at these days all because of Pogacar.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

Or he had one of the hardest ride schedules in the peloton and actually acted like a normal human being. I’m not saying he isn’t doped, but it’s refreshing to see someone not peak all year round.

What exactly are you talking about? His worst result in the last three and a half years in GT or stage races is a third place in Paris-Nice. Otherwise, he either crushed everyone or finished second behind Pog or his teammate (match fixing).

It really makes you wonder why he's so donkey in one-day races. He was actually half-decent before he won the TdF.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Vic Vinegar is back on the Hugh Honey

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's Teddy's porridge (served with fish of course).

 

[Samu Cuenca]

It's Teddy's porridge (served with fish of course).

Why would Pog share his recipe for success with him? To get fashion advice?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Why would Pog share his recipe for success with him? To get fashion advice?

Probably. The Eminem style is looking very poor compared to the bib tights style.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Probably. The Eminem style is looking very poor compared to the bib tights style.

He could let his tuffs grow and then use them to keep a second pair of bibs in place. It's going to be the next big arms race.

 

[ppanther92]

Lets see what Pogi got in the important races but Vingo is *** flying in Paris-Nice

 

[Squire]

Lets see what Pogi got in the important races but Vingo is *** flying in Paris-Nice

If he didn't crush these guys, there'd be serious cause for concern.

 

[Netserk]

If he didn't crush these guys, there'd be serious cause for concern.

yes and vauquelin and lenny are the best yardsticks left , but the day before should have affected them more than vingegaard , so its hard to say how good this was

but he still looked better yesterday than id have expected before the race and what i think hed have been able to in this race last year

 

[ppanther92]

If he didn't crush these guys, there'd be serious cause for concern.

Largest gap at Paris Nice since 1939.

E: and for something more relevant - bigger winning margin than Pogacar ever managed in an non-GT (no matter the opponents).

 

[Rob5091]

Largest gap at Paris Nice since 1939.

If only Ayuso had not crashed ....

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If only Ayuso had not crashed ....

... VingoMan would put an hour into Juanito.

 

[Rob5091]

... VingoMan would put an hour into Juanito.

An hour?! Wow, Trek ought to ask for their money back!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

An hour?! Wow, Trek ought to ask for their money back!

If money was an issue they wouldn't have signed him in the first place.

 

[nayr497]

- Peaking for 9-12 months.
- Leading GTs from near-start to finish
- Leading more than one GT in this fashion
- Winning GTs and winning 1-day races
- Not just winning, but dominating in very different areas - climbing, sprinting, TTing.

Over 100+ years of professional road cycling and we really haven't seen many, or any, riders pull this off. I think it seems hard-to-believe that a few riders have suddenly put it all together and can ride like this, around the calendar, across the races.

I'm a casual pro cycling fan at this point, but followed closely in the aughts. I just don't believe what I'm seeing. Sponsors, politics, UCI aside, I'm just not buying that so many racers before just didn't put it together, but suddenly a few riders have put it all together.

And I'd draw a parallel with tennis. I'm not a super fan, but I have a relatively decent historical understanding. Players could be very good for 6-8-10 years. And recently in mens tennis we had 3 guys at the top for 20 years and up to their 40s. It's just not believable. I don't buy that they simply had some new training ideas, NONE of which dawned on earlier competitors.

 

[Blobs]

- Peaking for 9-12 months.
- Leading GTs from near-start to finish
- Leading more than one GT in this fashion
- Winning GTs and winning 1-day races
- Not just winning, but dominating in very different areas - climbing, sprinting, TTing.

Over 100+ years of professional road cycling and we really haven't seen many, or any, riders pull this off. I think it seems hard-to-believe that a few riders have suddenly put it all together and can ride like this, around the calendar, across the races.

I'm a casual pro cycling fan at this point, but followed closely in the aughts. I just don't believe what I'm seeing. Sponsors, politics, UCI aside, I'm just not buying that so many racers before just didn't put it together, but suddenly a few riders have put it all together.

And I'd draw a parallel with tennis. I'm not a super fan, but I have a relatively decent historical understanding. Players could be very good for 6-8-10 years. And recently in mens tennis we had 3 guys at the top for 20 years and up to their 40s. It's just not believable. I don't buy that they simply had some new training ideas, NONE of which dawned on earlier competitors.

I think you may be in the wrong thread

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

It seems that he has returned to a standard post-mutation level like G. Thomas.

I've always thought he was a new Froome, going from domestique to Tour winner. At 24, he could barely achieve top 72 at Romandie and a top 10 in Poland, and when Roglic failed in his Tour de France bid, Vingegaard (Froome) replaced Roglic (Wiggins). In a few months, he went from a domestique to second in the Tour, performing at a similar level to Carapaz's,. The following year he demolished the Tour winner.
But with Sky's decline in performance, Froome reverted to his mediocre roots. I'm only seeing Froome's decline in Jakobsen (Lefevere's miracles, also with Gaviria, or Alvaro Hodeg looked like a top-level sprinter).

Now I compare him to Geraint Thomas. Geraint Thomas suddenly became a rider capable of competing in Tour de France, but unlike what has happened to Froome, despite Sky´s decline, G. maintained his post-mutation level in Grand Tour, almost beating Roglic in Giro d'Italia and reaching the podium at 38 in 2024.

It seems that for some, like Froome, the effect wears off completely, but for others, like Thomas or Vingegaard, whatever they were given to transform themselves leaves a permanent mark.

Of course, Thomas was mutated for Grand Tours, but he was a better cyclist than Vingegaard, who went from being absolutely nobody to winning two Tours de France and he is cloes to win all 3 Gran Tours and all 7 one week races.
At least he was a good domestique. Froome's case is the great enigma of this sport, but Majka was possibly a better domestique and cyclist than Vingegaard, and they didn't transform him into a Tour de France winner, not even to give him a Vuelta like they did with Kuss. (Visma lost his mind during those years, making Kuss Grand Tour winner or Tobias Foss world champion).

Vingegaard is the guy with the strangest transformation since Froome, and this is just a few pages long.
That has been Visma's great triumph. The narrative that Vingegaard doped and improved for two years has prevailed, not what actually happened, which was a complete mutation from nothing to a winner, the second rarest mutation in this sport.

Other cyclists have improved with doping, but Vingegaard is a guy who won two Tours de France when he was destined to be possibly a worse cyclist than Majka or similar to Kuss without victories in GC.

Even Lance Armstrong, before his transformation, was a better cyclist.

Without Vingegaard, Pogacar probably wouldn't be the rider he is today, but he would have won five Tours de France at a lower level without Vingegaard. Although Van der Poel wouldn't have improved that much in 2023 either, nor Pedersen last year. But that's the difference between cyclists who would have won—we don't know by how much—but the others who would have done absolutely nothing; they're the definition of a mutant, transforming into something they weren't. Not an improvement through doping.


At least Froome wasn't allowed to make history with a fifth Tour de France .and has suffered a shameful decline. Vingegaard is s going to win every stage race, something even Merckx never managed.



109

Vuelta a Andalucia Ruta Ciclista Del Sol 2019 Stage 5 results

Jakob Fuglsang is the winner of Vuelta a Andalucia Ruta Ciclista Del Sol 2019, before Ion Izagirre and Steven Kruijswijk. The stage from Otura to Alhaurín de la Torre was won by Matteo Trentin.

www.procyclingstats.com

72

Tour de Romandie 2019 Stage 5 (ITT) results

Primož RogliÄ is the winner of Tour de Romandie 2019, before Rui Costa and Geraint Thomas. The stage from Genève to Genève was won by Primož RogliÄ.

www.procyclingstats.com

22 in national ITT

National Championships Denmark ME - ITT 2019 Time Trial results

National Championships Denmark ME - ITT 2019 was won by Kasper Asgreen before Martin Toft Madsen and Johan Price-Pejtersen.

www.procyclingstats.com

His best Achivement, 8 in Tour of Poland. One year later second in a Tour because of Roglic absence.

Tour de Pologne 2020 Stage 5 results

Remco Evenepoel is the winner of Tour de Pologne 2020, before Jakob Fuglsang and Simon Yates. The stage from Zakopane to Kraków was won by Davide Ballerini.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

What exactly are you talking about? His worst result in the last three and a half years in GT or stage races is a third place in Paris-Nice. Otherwise, he either crushed everyone or finished second behind Pog or his teammate (match fixing).

It really makes you wonder why he's so donkey in one-day races. He was actually half-decent before he won the TdF.

2019: DNF Emilia, 84 Montreal, 96 Quebec, , 26 national road race, 22 National Itt
2020: 87 Liege, 71 FW, 31 Denmark national, DNF Lombardy, 56 Gran Piamonte.

In 2021 he mutated; that year was when Vingegaard went from absolute ostracism to doing something, even though it wasn't good either:
114 Amstel, 83 FW, 28 Liege. 12 Emilia and 14 Lombardy his best result, (after mutation for the Tour). Almeida second this year in Emilia with Quick Step

Something happened that year, until then he was considerably worse than riders like Almeida, whom we knew from the Giro or for winning Liege U23. Vingegaard's mutation has only been surpassed by Froome's.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

2019: DNF Emilia, 84 Montreal, 96 Quebec, , 26 national road race, 22 National Itt
2020: 87 Liege, 71 FW, 31 Denmark national, DNF Lombardy, 56 Gran Piamonte.

In 2021 he mutated; that year was when Vingegaard went from absolute ostracism to doing something, even though it wasn't good either:
114 Amstel, 83 FW, 28 Liege. 12 Emilia and 14 Lombardy his best result, (after mutation for the Tour). Almeida second this year in Emilia with Quick Step

Something happened that year, until then he was considerably worse than riders like Almeida, whom we knew from the Giro or for winning Liege U23. Vingegaard's mutation has only been surpassed by Froome's.

Vingegaard's rise is obviously fishy. But you have to take into account that he was essentially an amateur until he was 22. You mention Almeida, who was part of a very well-organised development team before joining WT. In his early 20s, he was much closer to his full potential than Vingegaard was at a similar age.

Vingegaard had already achieved some good results before the 2021 TdF. In his debut season as a pro, he won a stage at the Tour of Poland and claimed victory on the Jebel Jais stage at the UAE Tour.

Prior to the 2021 TdF, he primarily served as Roglic’s domestique in major races. Had he raced independently, he would undoubtedly have achieved better results, so I wouldn't draw any significant conclusions from those races.