Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Krzysztof_O]

I believe if he's at 90/95% before the Tour, like he was before the Vuelta 2023, Visma will decide to put Vingegaard in the Tour, because he can still fight for the victory and improve the shape until the last week, where everything will be decided.

Now, this can be "wishfull thinking" by my side, but i believe he will be in the Tour, because Visma did not descarded yet his appearance there, and i believe a lot in his ability to recover faster. This guys doesn't appear to be humans. It's unbeliavable how fast Van aert is recovering after what happened to him.

I'm not sure if 90% Vingegaard can beat 100% Roglic. This would be tough. Hard to say anything for sure about Pogacar as he's never done a GT double and no idea what percentage he can reach (but probably not more than those 90%). If Pogacar was 100% preparing for the Tour then 90% Vingo would have small chances but Giro makes it a different situation.

 

[Cookster15]

I believe if he's at 90/95% before the Tour, like he was before the Vuelta 2023, Visma will decide to put Vingegaard in the Tour, because he can still fight for the victory and improve the shape until the last week, where everything will be decided.

Now, this can be "wishfull thinking" by my side, but i believe he will be in the Tour, because Visma did not descarded yet his appearance there, and i believe a lot in his ability to recover faster. This guys doesn't appear to be humans. It's unbeliavable how fast Van aert is recovering after what happened to him.

On wishful thinking, I think its a little early to be making predictions. We can't compare different injuries or riders. And recovering from big efforts on stage races is completely different to the body repairing broken tissues and bones from a crash. Maybe take Fran Maasan's advice -

In two weeks, we'll know what is possible

'Walk first, ride indoors and then on the road' - Jonas Vingegaard's road to recovery after Itzulia crash

'In two weeks, we'll know what is possible' - Visma DS Frans Maassen on Dane's chances of riding the Tour de France

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Froome]

I'm not sure if 90% Vingegaard can beat 100% Roglic. This would be tough. Hard to say anything for sure about Pogacar as he's never done a GT double and no idea what percentage he can reach (but probably not more than those 90%). If Pogacar was 100% preparing for the Tour then 90% Vingo would have small chances but Giro makes it a different situation.

I'm not sure if Vingegaard can win the Tour at 90/95% or if he can beat Roglic and Pogacar with the Giro in his legs. My point is that the plan could be Vingegaard starting the Tour a bit "cooked" and improving during the first 2 weeks and peak in the last week where everything will be decided, since the Tour 2024 is absolutely backloaded. The first 2 weeks will be more about the top riders staying out of trouble.

I think the Tour will start to be decided one week before the finish on Nice at Plateau de beille.

Plateau de Beille-isola 2000-col de la Couillole-final TT, all in the last week, sunday to sunday.

So if he starts a bit "cooked" and he's able to improve day after day, i believe he can fight for the Tour, even if he starts at 90/95%.

I'm thinking in a good possible scenario. My point will not matter if Vingegaard will not be able to recover in time to the Tour. I'm just trying to say that even if doesn't start the tour at 100% i would take him if he were at 90/95%.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I still think it's more likely they will skip the Tour (if Vingo is 90/95%) and focus on smashing the Vuelta with 100% Vingo.

 

[Red Rick]

What is he losing exactly? The opportunity to win Sibiu Tour?

What does it gain? Nothing.

What it costs is it's probably not great Vuelta prep to be really undercooked going into the Tour and then rip yourself inside out trying to get a result, be that a top 5 or a stage win or whatever.

 

[AmRacer]

I'm not sure if Vingegaard can win the Tour at 90/95% or if he can beat Roglic and Pogacar with the Giro in his legs. My point is that the plan could be Vingegaard starting the Tour a bit "cooked" and improving during the first 2 weeks and peak in the last week where everything will be decided, since the Tour 2024 is absolutely backloaded. The first 2 weeks will be more about the top riders staying out of trouble.

I think the Tour will start to be decided one week before the finish on Nice at Plateau de beille.

Plateau de Beille-isola 2000-col de la Couillole-final TT, all in the last week, sunday to sunday.

So if he starts a bit "cooked" and he's able to improve day after day, i believe he can fight for the Tour, even if he starts at 90/95%.

I'm thinking in a good possible scenario. My point will not matter if Vingegaard will not be able to recover in time to the Tour. I'm just trying to say that even if doesn't start the tour at 100% i would take him if he were at 90/95%.

Where's Remco in that equation?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Where's Remco in that equation?

Eating a few hamburgers too many to win the Tour.

 

[Froome]

Where's Remco in that equation?

He is right there, but a little behind those guys at the moment.

 

[Oldermanish]

That might still happen even if he isn't there.

Exactly and, if he wants to train in tandem with the Tour he could do regional rides and would have more press than if he was packfill. One or two days of the Vingegaard update from the back would wear out. The press will focus on the combatants, as always.

 

[Oldermanish]

That's just from his perspective though so it comes down to whether he has a choice. If I was the sponsor I would demand that he was there as long as he is fit enough to ride a bike. Exposure at the Tour is just so much bigger than even a win at the Vuelta.

It's a good thing you're not the sponsor.
I would not be surprised if his contract has specific, guaranteed races where he is featured/protected. If he is recovering from a health issue his medical counsel would, and should supercede any other considerations.
The medieval days of demanding an athlete perform are gone for the front liners.
If he has a personal services contract that requires marketing they certainly could ask him to be at the venues, take pressers and be a sponsor representative.

 

[ingsve]

It's a good thing you're not the sponsor.
I would not be surprised if his contract has specific, guaranteed races where he is featured/protected. If he is recovering from a health issue his medical counsel would, and should supercede any other considerations.
The medieval days of demanding an athlete perform are gone for the front liners.
If he has a personal services contract that requires marketing they certainly could ask him to be at the venues, take pressers and be a sponsor representative.

We're not talking about him recovering from a health issue. He would still need to be fully fit to ride. But he can be fully fit to compete without having the full preparation needed to actually win the overall. People were saying that if he doesn't have the preparation to actually win the whole race then he shouldn't race at all and that is what I'm opposing. If you are 100 % healthy and are in decent racing shape then you better well show up to the biggest competition of the year when you are the biggest star of the team. Simple as that.

 

[Oldermanish]

We're not talking about him recovering from a health issue. He would still need to be fully fit to ride. But he can be fully fit to compete without having the full preparation needed to actually win the overall. People were saying that if he doesn't have the preparation to actually win the whole race then he shouldn't race at all and that is what I'm opposing. If you are 100 % healthy and are in decent racing shape then you better well show up to the biggest competition of the year when you are the biggest star of the team. Simple as that.

Simple is as simple does, and it's not that simple. Having functional lungs and mended bones are what's necessary to begin training seriously. Then you can build form to the point you can comfortably ride in a group, motorpace and the basic training to get race ready. Lab performances only take you to a fitness level; not a race level it is as simple as that.
JV is possibly the most valuable talent in cycling for GTs. It would be monumentally stupid to risk that asset if he's not fully capable to ride strongly enough to be safe. If he's strong enough to actually ride the Tour, how many JV riders will be dedicated to protecting his position in the pack although he's not racing for the win? It becomes a strategically practical matter when resources are divided to protect a non-winning plan. If JV comes to the pre-Tour decision that they don't have a podium finisher they may just treat it as a training race and fulfill their obligation to promoters: that would be a situation that a less than optimally prepared Jonas could race safely. Exposing him to crashes makes no economic sense for him or JV.

They can promote his future racing and get as much promotional benefit without risking his career. In fact, if Jonas is too optimistic there better be an adult on the team management that would suggest the Vuelta is the focus.

 

[Poursuivant]

Such a shame what happened to him. I just hope he comes back as strong as he was. I don’t think he will go TDF, I think Vuelta is more likely.

 

[FanBoi]

Any update on him?

 

[Netserk]

Any update on him?

No, but they expect to be able to say more in a week.

 

[AmRacer]

Vingegaard version 2.0 with extended attack range.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

We've also heard that he only paid 1.8 million Euro for his new house, but he's probably also going to earn less this year than he had initially hoped for.

 

[FroomeWagon]

Any update on him?

Visma is rebuilding him stronger and better than before.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Visma is rebuilding him stronger and better than before.

Visma-LAB has a dilemma. They could smash the Tour with another model of Skeletor but that would be suspicious so they are probably repairing the current one for the Vuelta.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Visma-LAB has a dilemma. They could smash the Tour with another model of Skeletor but that would be suspicious so they are probably repairing the current one for the Vuelta.

I'm not sure they have time enough to grow a new Skeletor before the Tour, unless Vingeaard's new house is equipped with a state of the art research facility.

 

[AmRacer]

I'm not sure they have time enough to grow a new Skeletor before the Tour, unless Vingeaard's new house is equipped with a state of the art research facility.

Visma has a prototype ready in the LAB.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Visma has a prototype ready in the LAB.

Yeah, maybe they can lease a bot.

 

[Froome]

Visma-LAB has a dilemma. They could smash the Tour with another model of Skeletor but that would be suspicious so they are probably repairing the current one for the Vuelta.

Skeletor model always have an udpate on his software every year. This year he was even more stronger in March.

The software will be ready in July with >7 w/kg!

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Followed recent updates and as fully expected with a pneumothorax still too early to know which direction the wind blows.
My best guess is mid June before anything thoroughly can be stated with evidence. But could be early July as well.
Think even best experts don't have any answers yet.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Followed recent updates and as fully expected with a pneumothorax still too early to know which direction the wind blows.
My best guess is mid June before anything thoroughly can be stated with evidence. But could be early July as well.
Think even best experts don't have any answers yet.

Nah, in May we will know.