Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

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Cookster15

Cookster15

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Extinction said:
And this shall make for potentially great years ahead.
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I think Pog didn't rate him despite his brief show on Ventoux last year. I mean Pog won that Tour by 5 minutes. The words "meteoric rise" sum up Vingo. Yes Pog was over confident on stage 11 and fell into the trap but it was partially understandable.

As for the ever changing title, I hope it gets changed back to something less controversial.
 
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Blobs

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Cookster15 said:
I think Pog didn't rate him despite his brief show on Ventoux last year. I mean Pog won that Tour by 5 minutes. The words "meteoric rise" sum up Vingo. Yes Pog was over confident on stage 11 and fell into the trap but it was partially understandable.

As for the ever changing title, I hope it gets changed back to something less controversial.
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I don't buy it. I don't think they were that naive and that unprepared. Anyone who took into consideration all the factors of last years race, could see that they were much closer in level than what the time differences indicated. Vingegaard had crashed hard on the stage where Pog did his raid, but basically matched him 1 to 1 after that, and dropped him on Ventoux. I think they knew Vingegaard could be trouble this year, and that's why Pog went for every single second for the first 10 days.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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Blobs said:
I'm curious; do you still see Pog as a rare historical genius, like you did two weeks ago, or did this Tour change that? You seemed to think he was untouchable, but he seemed to bring the same level of the last two years, but was beaten by a (possibly? I'm not 100% sure) stronger guy.
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Well, it wasn't only me and after Tirreno and Flanders, yes, he was demonstrating that rarity of genius not seen since Hinault. So how do you put it? And, yes, despite loosing this Tour (and Hinault met his match in Fignon and then Lemond, which took nothing away from his genius), I still see Tadej that way.
 
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Blobs

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It wasn't just you, but it did seem like you went a bit above and beyond with references to Mozart et al., and seeming 100% certain he wouldn't be beaten like that for a decade. Now it seems possible that he won't be the dominant GT rider of his generation, and he'll have to compete with van Aert for title as the best all rounder, so it puts him in a slightly different light, and his aura in of invincibility is gone now. Time will tell, and he might just bounce back and still dominate future Tours, but I don't think Merckx or Mozart were ever beaten like that :)

I also still think Roglic would have been right up there if he didn't have two broken vertabrae.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Blobs said:
I don't buy it. I don't think they were that naive and that unprepared. Anyone who took into consideration all the factors of last years race, could see that they were much closer in level than what the time differences indicated. Vingegaard had crashed hard on the stage where Pog did his raid, but basically matched him 1 to 1 after that, and dropped him on Ventoux. I think they knew Vingegaard could be trouble this year, and that's why Pog went for every single second for the first 10 days.
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The strange thing about the Tour last year was it was basically 2 halves where Pogacar obliterated everyone in the rain and cold and the 2nd half where Vingegaard looked to be a stiff challenge on Ventoux and in the Pyrenees. And the real question was sort of which of the 2 halves of the Tour reflected their true ability the most.
 
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Blobs

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Red Rick said:
The strange thing about the Tour last year was it was basically 2 halves where Pogacar obliterated everyone in the rain and cold and the 2nd half where Vingegaard looked to be a stiff challenge on Ventoux and in the Pyrenees. And the real question was sort of which of the 2 halves of the Tour reflected their true ability the most.
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People seem to have completely forgotten that Vingegaard crashed on the day where Pogacar took all that time. The only other day where he lost time, was the day after that. Looking at the numbers, it's also clear that Pogacars performance on Romme and Colombiere weren't nuclear compared to what he and others are usually capable of. It's just that the others went quite slow. I think it should be clear by now that the second half of the race was a better representation of how strong they were in relation to each other. Vingegaard isn't actually that much stronger this year, he was just a leader from the start and didn't crash.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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Blobs said:
It wasn't just you, but it did seem like you went a bit above and beyond with references to Mozart et al., and seeming 100% certain he wouldn't be beaten like that for a decade. Now it seems possible that he won't be the dominant GT rider of his generation, and he'll have to compete with van Aert for title as the best all rounder, so it puts him in a slightly different light, and his aura in of invincibility is gone now. Time will tell, and he might just bounce back and still dominate future Tours, but I don't think Merckx or Mozart were ever beaten like that :)

I also still think Roglic would have been right up there if he didn't have two broken vertabrae.
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It's great for cycling that Tadej has serious competition and I'm willing to reevalute, but thus far I haven't seen anything like it since Hinault.
 
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

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Tonton

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Roglic seemed to have developped a Pogacar complex, Vingegaard has slayed the dragon. Only he has confidence. And Roglic may have another JV rider to worry about.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Tonton said:
Roglic seemed to have developped a Pogacar complex, Vingegaard has slayed the dragon. Only he has confidence. And Roglic may have another JV rider to worry about.
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I don't feel there is any complex involved. Roglič has beaten Pogačar after TDF 2020. It was more of a broken vertebra then anything else on this Tour edition. In regardless of that Rogličes contribution to TDF 2022 victor was significant.
 
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Fuente De

Fuente De

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Blabla Rogli excuse blabla Roglic is Great Standard RoglicAbi comment in a Non-Roglic Thread. For real, jeez.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Fuente De said:
Blabla Rogli excuse blabla Roglic is Great Standard RoglicAbi comment in a Non-Roglic Thread. For real, jeez.
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Well. He helped Jonas win this Tour edition on stage 11. It's only appropriate. If Jonas wants full credit. There will be other Tour editions to try to do that.
 
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GroupDK

GroupDK

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I don't see much weakness in Pogacar.. I reckon Pogacar performing great, and if Jonas is taken out of the acquisition - it would be the old norm with huge gain to Pogacar against the rest and also the narrative that Pogacar explains..
It really made this TdF22 spectacular that we saw this battle.. and finally, somebody who was able to challenge Pogacar.

Definitely Jonas's luck - that this TdF22 was both hard & extremely hot, as if Pogacar aint drained, - Jonas will lose, as Pogacar got that explosive factor that Jonas doesn't have - at least not to Pogacar level.
Jonas Vingegaard definitely seems stronger under these extreme TdF22 circumstances then Pogacar.

In the 2022 Tour de France, it has been at least 3 times that Jonas has been stronger than Pogacar. - 11 - 18, - 20, and the 3 times he tried' he profited.
Pogacar literally tried everything under the sun and I was surprised to see how well Jonas managed to follow him' when Pogacar went all out.
Crucial for Vingegaard to be ajour, and not let Pogacar get a gap, and why we saw Jonas be so focused on every little move Pogacar made, and get his wheel as soon as possible - when Pogacar is attacking.
I did not notice any significant moments where Jonas was in trouble - at all??
I doubt that the result would differ - if we took away the teams, I saw Jonas as the stronger climber in TdF2022, and the few times he challenged Pogacar he managed to gain time , while Pogacar couldn't gain anything on him, no matter the number of tries and where Jonas usually was alone.

How it will play out next year's TDF23.. I recon it comes down to the layout, and perhaps the weather, as the heat in Europe' has been extreme on very crucial TdF days in 2022,.
Hopefully, the TdF exec is taking notes, about what worked - and what didn't in 2022 - so we will see this battle between Jonas and Pogacar continue in 2023.. and hopefully with other riders stepping up.

It's the "fighting" that made this Tour de France 22 so spectacular, and great to see somebody being able to dethrone Pogacar, as he is such a champ when he needs to fight & gain time.., pleasure to watch.
 
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Jeppeb

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CyclistAbi said:
Well. He helped Jonas win this Tour edition on stage 11. It's only appropriate. If Jonas wants full credit. There will be other Tour editions to try to do that.
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Roglic has peaked mate, get over it. He will never be able to contend for a Tour de France win again.
 
hfer07

hfer07

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I'm quite glad for us cycling fans to have in Vingeggard the counterbalance opposite to Pogacar's reign, because both are young within the same age range, both are quite talented, & both can provide the Tour battles that we were longing for, so I welcome Jonas's victory. I guess next is to see how UAI as a team can become more equal to JV in order to support Poga in his bid for next year's Tour...
 
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