Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Berniece]

Wonder what this will do to him mentally. He isn’t that strong in his head and this might be a bit of a blow

 

[Peyroteo94]

Overall pogacar didn't have better legs today than Vingegaard, it was just 24 s. Simply, pogacar was much smarter sucking Vingegaard's wheel, and vingegaard was very naive. He should had just follow pogacar's wheel on cambasque.

P.s- I'm not criticizing pogacar's strategy. It's legitimate, even if it was vingegaard doing the same, he would get a lot of hate.

I think they learned the lesson. Now vingegaard will follow pogacar's wheel and ride smart.

I don't believe Vingegaard will just follow. I still think Pog will be dropped on Dome and jumbo must rip the peloton there. These 25 seconds are very short and it is not certain Vingegaard will gain time in the TT.

 

[Andy schleck]

I don't believe Vingegaard will just follow. I still think Pog will be dropped on Dome and jumbo must rip the peloton there. These 25 seconds are very short and it is not certain Vingegaard will gain time in the TT.

25 seconds is short, but vingegaard should wait in pogacar's wheel for his attacks. Then he should counter attack if he feels good. He should have done that today after tourmalet!

 

[Andy schleck]

Wonder what this will do to him mentally. He isn’t that strong in his head and this might be a bit of a blow

He is with the yellow jersey. He should be fine.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He is with the yellow jersey. He should be fine.

For now but the T-Rex is coming

 

[Andy schleck]

For now but the T-Rex is coming

Let's see. Now it will be time to vingegaard suck pogacar's wheels.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Let's see. Now it will be time to vingegaard suck pogacar's wheels.

Do the rest of the mountain stages have bonus seconds?

 

[theyoungest]

It will benefit Vingegaard that on Puy de Dome the pace will be higher than what Van Aert still had left on the final climb today. The slower the pace, the better for Pogi because his explosiveness stays intact.

 

[Salvarani]

Let's see. Now it will be time to vingegaard suck pogacar's wheels.

Jumbo will likely control the pace and be on the front.

It is only when Pog actually attacks and Vinge is able to follow, that he can stay on his wheel. Unless he doesnt counter, of course.

We will see what happens on Sunday. My prediction, for what it is worth, is Pog doesnt attack until late. The last part is steep. Maybe Vinge will fancy his chances there again, like yesterday. 25 seconds is not a big lead that you can just cruise around with.

 

[Berniece]

He is with the yellow jersey. He should be fine.

That’s not how it works, definitely not in his case. He’s known to doubt himself

 

[Trofonios]

It will benefit Vingegaard that on Puy de Dome the pace will be higher than what Van Aert still had left on the final climb today. The slower the pace, the better for Pogi because his explosiveness stays intact.

Pog seems to be is vunerable on steep gradients when Vingegaard gets a strong lead-out, for example Kuss on Marie Blanque and Wout on Hautacam. Difference in weight and less drafting becomes a factor. Maybe Pog will be in better shape on Puy de Dome, but I still think Vingegaard has the upper hand here. Fact that there aren't any hard climbs before could benefit Pog however, he should be fresher.

 

[Red Rick]

Any trend regarding long climbs or altitude does not become undone because of a single climb where Pog could follow.

Today it just looked to me like the gap between them was small and then Vingegaard did more work/didn't recover as well as Pogacar. Tourmalet was paced with a very negative split, which I don't think helps Vingegaard either. Then I don't think sitting 2nd wheel instead of 3rd is an advantage on a long stretch of >30kph when you wanna recover, but I haven't studied the aerodynamics of dissimilar sized riders.

 

[Rackham]

Any trend regarding long climbs or altitude does not become undone because of a single climb where Pog could follow.

Today it just looked to me like the gap between them was small and then Vingegaard did more work/didn't recover as well as Pogacar. Tourmalet was paced with a very negative split, which I don't think helps Vingegaard either. Then I don't think sitting 2nd wheel instead of 3rd is an advantage on a long stretch of >30kph when you wanna recover, but I haven't studied the aerodynamics of dissimilar sized riders.

What about the psychological aspect? Surely this can impact performance as well, i.e. once the all-out assault on the Tourmalet didn't work & once Cauterets wasn't going so well, a rider would be forgiven for getting a knock on the head when the plan of the day backfires like a boomerang.

This happened to Vingegaard in Paris-Nice as well when his attack failed. I see a lot of talk about data, thresholds or whatnot (stuff I'm really not well versed in at all) but for me the mental aspect is very real & that's what I saw happen today between Vingegaard & Pog. Just as yesterday Pog took a real hard blow to his head when he got dropped on Marie Blanque & he had Sepp Kuss wheelsucking him (when a rival's dom is on your wheel, you know it's a real bad day).

I mean Pog's post race interview was pretty edifying in that respect, i.e. his words were basically "on the Tourmalet, I thought sh*t, it's going to be like yesterday again, we might as well go home now" (translated from a French news site).

I think the levels are so close now, so a slight change in mental strength (a boost in Pog's case when Vinge didn't drop him on the Tourmalet) made all the difference.

 

[bNator]

Overall pogacar didn't have better legs today than Vingegaard, it was just 24 s. Simply, pogacar was much smarter sucking Vingegaard's wheel, and vingegaard was very naive. He should had just follow pogacar's wheel on cambasque.

P.s- I'm not criticizing pogacar's strategy. It's legitimate, even if it was vingegaard doing the same, he would get a lot of hate.

I think they learned the lesson. Now vingegaard will follow pogacar's wheel and ride smart.

You’ve gotta love this🤣😂

 

[Red Rick]

What about the psychological aspect?

Psychology doesn't matter if you don't have the legs.

Sunday will be a different day

 

[Andy schleck]

You’ve gotta love this🤣😂

It was just 24 s after pogacar being smarter than Vingegaard that spent a lot of unecessary energy.
That doesn't mean pogacar didn’t deserve the victory, of course he deserved. He was smart and did what he have to do. Kudos for him.

 

[bNator]

Pog's deficit is nothing a few sprints & good ITT cannot overcome.

Vingegaard & Jumbo will now also be reticent to launch big manoeuvres which can unsettle Pog from afar. Vingegaard took yellow with a 3 minute lead last year. Today, it's 25 seconds after a similar grand scale offensive as Granon backfired at the end.

It's not a particularly comfortable position for Vingegaard & Jumbo, even more so considering the gaps versus the rest of the field are so huge, I don't see how they can tactically get rid of the jersey now, even for a few days. It's all in from here on.

The situation is completely different to last year, yes. The gap is so small it can be eliminated in 1 good kilometer during a climb. Pog doesn’t need to attack the whole Tour like he had to last year. He can wait for his single opportunity which can be on top of his favourite climb or whenever he feels Vinge is having a less than good day.

Jonas may even feel more pressure to increase the gap than Pog does to decrease it in the upcoming stages…

 

[JosefK]

Vingo seemed strong to me today on stage 6, but not quite as strong as he was the day before. Pog clearly was on a better day. Today (stage 6), Jonas did more work than Tadej for most of the stage, possibly reluctant to quit forcing the issue after the Tourmalet ... still hoping to dislodge Pog on the final climb. But it turned out to be a miscalculation. Today, Jonas wasn't quite as strong, and Pog was stronger. Not that much changed in 24 hours. Maybe Jonas went a little deeper than Pogi on stage 5 to maximize the advantage, so possibly he wasn't quite as fully recovered, today. There is an ebb and flow to these kinds of things. If at the start of the Tour you had told Jonas, "You will have a 25 second lead on Pogi after stage 6," I bet he would have gladly taken that deal. The battle is on, and Jonas's chances look at least as good as Pog's for the overall win.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Any trend regarding long climbs or altitude does not become undone because of a single climb where Pog could follow.

Today it just looked to me like the gap between them was small and then Vingegaard did more work/didn't recover as well as Pogacar. Tourmalet was paced with a very negative split, which I don't think helps Vingegaard either. Then I don't think sitting 2nd wheel instead of 3rd is an advantage on a long stretch of >30kph when you wanna recover, but I haven't studied the aerodynamics of dissimilar sized riders.

Or maybe too many are ignoring the fact Pog had over 5 mins on Vinge and the issues last year with doing a lot of the work, not eating, and attacking a lot plus the sickness rumors. Which leads to thinking that the gap is bigger between the riders then it actually is. There’s no doubt Vinge is slightly better at those things than Pog, but I don’t think it’s minutes of difference. Pog can now sit on and sprint away to gain time ala Purito with the TT being a toss up. If Kuss has an off day it could be disastrous for Vinge just like if Pog gets caught again like yesterday.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Let's see. Now it will be time to vingegaard suck pogacar's wheels.

I don't think so. The gap is too small to be comfortable and will get smaller if Vinge can't drop Pogacar (due to bonuses). Vinge will want to drop Pogacar for good but maybe he'll wait a bit longer this time. But Puy de Dome is too tempting, isn't it?

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

Looks like Vingegaard and Pog are at a similar climbing level after all, with Jonas having an edge on the very steep stuff, which makes sense given their professed weights.

I still think of Jonas as the favourite, but I guess the prediction will be a lot easier to make after Puy. And while I'm still rooting for Pogi, I appreciate the guts he's showed this last couple of stages (even if Jumbo's plan didn't turn out to be as tactically sound on the road as it maybe looked on paper).

 

[Peyroteo94]

It will be hot on puy de dome so it will be a big test for Pog

 

[Ripper]

Vingo seemed strong to me today on stage 6, but not quite as strong as he was the day before. Pog clearly was on a better day. Today (stage 6), Jonas did more work than Tadej for most of the stage, possibly reluctant to quit forcing the issue after the Tourmalet ... still hoping to dislodge Pog on the final climb. But it turned out to be a miscalculation. Today, Jonas wasn't quite as strong, and Pog was stronger. Not that much changed in 24 hours. Maybe Jonas went a little deeper than Pogi on stage 5 to maximize the advantage, so possibly he wasn't quite as fully recovered, today. There is an ebb and flow to these kinds of things. If at the start of the Tour you had told Jonas, "You will have a 25 second lead on Pogi after stage 6," I bet he would have gladly taken that deal. The battle is on, and Jonas's chances look at least as good as Pog's for the overall win.

Good assessment!

 

[bNator]

Psychology doesn't matter if you don't have the legs.

Sunday will be a different day

Having the legs is also a psychological matter imo.

 

[Andy schleck]

It will be hot on puy de dome so it will be a big test for Pog

It will a big test also for vingegaard.