Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Krzysztof_O]

That barely makes any sense if Jumbo says they have planned going to the Vuelta since November. I can't imagine that you're planning that without glancing at the route beforehand.. because Vingegaard seems like a guy who's pretty interested in that stuff since race routes are very important for his chances of winning compared to other riders IMO.

Then again, maybe he's just been 100% focused on TdF without given a single *** or thought about La Vuelta and is just full blown yolo'ing it for *** and giggles. No altitude, no recon, no nothing.

There's an abyss between his TdF level and being competitive at Vuelta level. Maybe they hope he'll still be decent enough and able to fight for top3 (plus it's maybe a trial before future double attempts).

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Altitude isn't that useful if it's short, plus he needs to recover anyway. Probably wants some family time as well, he does seem like a bit of a homeboy.

No high altitude is one thing, no climbing altogether seems absurd, if you aim to win the Vuelta.

 

[Red Rick]

That barely makes any sense if Jumbo says they have planned going to the Vuelta since November. I can't imagine that you're planning that without glancing at the route beforehand.. because Vingegaard seems like a guy who's pretty interested in that stuff since race routes are very important for his chances of winning compared to other riders IMO.

Then again, maybe he's just been 100% focused on TdF without given a single *** or thought about La Vuelta and is just full blown yolo'ing it for *** and giggles. No altitude, no recon, no nothing.

I've always had the impression 99% of the peloton study routes way less than us forum nerds. Like we are in the trenches on route announcement days or in rumor threads and those guys just take a look at the parcours once in January and don't look at details either.

I think Vingegaard does want to win, but they have only scheduled for him to be great in July and now trying to win the Vuelta is basically an experiment.

 

[Valv.Piti]

It literally matter so much though. I guess in the case of the Vuelta, he was always scheduled to going and the Tour was the biggest focus which is perfectly normal, but a bunch of riders are literally so extremely dependent on routes favoring their abilities. If you're a sprinter, and you only see 3 stages in TdF, or if youre a classic specialist and there's barely any stages (like this year - either too easy or too hard), you might think whats the point and focus on something else. You're literally training for several months and trying to peak for a race in which you barely have an opportunity to make a real impact and you know there are 50 riders similar to you that have a similar skill set and only can target a few stages at best.

In the case of Vingegaard, he's obviously very good at climbing and time trialing, so in that sense the route doesn't matter that much. But when you're facing Pogacar at TdF, the route is the single biggest factor outside of preparation/injuries/crashes because you really want at least 1 stage where its plausible you can crack Pogacar. In the Vuelta, it matters less, but still a decent amount obviously. And at the very least it should just be interesting to look at if you're racing.

 

[ice&fire]

That barely makes any sense if Jumbo says they have planned going to the Vuelta since November. I can't imagine that you're planning that without glancing at the route beforehand.. because Vingegaard seems like a guy who's pretty interested in that stuff since race routes are very important for his chances of winning compared to other riders IMO.

Then again, maybe he's just been 100% focused on TdF without given a single *** or thought about La Vuelta and is just full blown yolo'ing it for *** and giggles. No altitude, no recon, no nothing.

Nobody other than Spanish or Spanish team riders do any recon for the Vuelta

 

[Rob5091]

As Jumbo have not finalized their Vuelta team, what's the chance that Vingegaard does not do the Vuelta as Jumbo are just trolling everyone?

 

[Peter von]

As Jumbo have not finalized their Vuelta team, what's the chance that Vingegaard does not do the Vuelta as Jumbo are just trolling everyone?

there is a slim chance that they look at his data and conclude Vingegaard to Vuelta is a bad idea, or he crashes in training or catches some virus.

But I think there is a very slim chance they were just trolling for the lols .

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Vingegaard is considered a bit boring by many, so his thread even here is already on page two… Well, the TdF is over, now…

In past days and weeks, I wondered why Vingegaard is so good. I mean, at the TdF, he is much better than even Pogacar. And Pogacar is a new Merckx, for many of us.

So I wondered, and tried to find answers. I still do not have too many answers. But I thought about many things.

Do you guys think it‘s possible that he has genetic advantages beyond the usual (naturally high haematocrit, high VO2max, …) ones? Is it, for example, possible, that he has something like „two hearts“ (instead of one heart)?… What do you think?…

 

[Netserk]

Booh!

Way worse thread title now.

 

[Red Rick]

Personally I miss the old "is not Chris Harper" title as Harper was also doing very well at the Tour.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Do you guys think it‘s possible that he has genetic advantages beyond the usual (naturally high haematocrit, high VO2max, …) ones?

Vingegaard surely has an excellent physique for a climber. When I first saw him I was like "wow". Obviously he can generate insane wattages out of his low body weight so the engine is there. His VO2 max must be insane but obviously the ability to perform at a high percentage of VO2max and recovery from those efforts are the key. Those things can be trained OFC but in case of VO2 max, metabolism and physique he's clearly genetically superior to most of his rivals.

Is it, for example, possible, that he has something like „two hearts“ (instead of one heart)?… What do you think?…

Clearly wrong thread for such questions. He clearly has a large heart for his size though (but that can be said of any top cyclists methinks).

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Do you guys think it‘s possible that he has genetic advantages beyond the usual (naturally high haematocrit, high VO2max, …) ones? Is it, for example, possible, that he has something like „two hearts“ (instead of one heart)?… What do you think?…

I recently visited a place where they had planted five trees that had ultimately grown into one big one, so perhaps that's what happened with his vital organs.

 

[Mlarsen]

Vingegaard is considered a bit boring by many, so his thread even here is already on page two… Well, the TdF is over, now…

In past days and weeks, I wondered why Vingegaard is so good. I mean, at the TdF, he is much better than even Pogacar. And Pogacar is a new Merckx, for many of us.

So I wondered, and tried to find answers. I still do not have too many answers. But I thought about many things.

Do you guys think it‘s possible that he has genetic advantages beyond the usual (naturally high haematocrit, high VO2max, …) ones? Is it, for example, possible, that he has something like „two hearts“ (instead of one heart)?… What do you think?…

WTF are you talking about. Read about Jonas Vingegaards early physical tests as a U23 rider at Team Denmark's test center. They had never seen such numbers. He has an insanely big heart compared to his body...in addition, he is perfectly built to be the world's...perhaps the best mountain rider in history and maybe GC rider. It is just disrespectful what you are saying !

 

[topcat]

I recently visited a place where they had planted five trees that had ultimately grown into one big one, so perhaps that's what happened with his vital organs.

A majority of the Danes on the forum strongly believe that Vingo did not go fast enough in the tour. Where do you stand on that subject, Samu ?

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

It is just disrespectful what you are saying !

If so, I honestly apologize - that was never my intention.

In fact, I‘m someone who likes to admire. I‘m amazed by Vingegaard. I enjoy his performance, and like his friendly personality very much.

But I also like to think the „unthinkable“, in general. Plus, decades of studying medicinal texts, and having a doctor among my siblings, make me believe there‘s nothing impossible in human physics…

So my message was intended to be half serious, half funny - but, never to be disrespectful. If it appeared to be this way, I honestly apologize…

 

[Samu Cuenca]

A majority of the Danes on the forum strongly believe that Vingo did not go fast enough in the tour. Where do you stand on that subject, Samu ?

He rode faster than what was required to win the race. However we don't know for sure if he could have won against a much better version of Pogačar, so he may have to improve his level even more if he wants to win again.

 

[Andy schleck]

He rode faster than what was required to win the race. However we don't know for sure if he could have won against a much better version of Pogačar, so he may have to improve his level even more if he wants to win again.

What better version of pogacar? It was pogacar's best version ever. Go check his numbers. Vingegaard is simply a better GT rider than him.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

What better version of pogacar? It was pogacar's best version ever. Go check his numbers. Vingegaard is simply a better GT rider than him.

We don't know whether or not we've seen the best versions of them yet.

 

[SHAD0W93]

We don't know whether or not we've seen the best versions of them yet.

Hard to see Vinge get better next year when his week 2 to week 3 jump was so high after a very hard two weeks and expending energy at the front every single stage. Only thing that would be better is if it started at week 2 or start of the race.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Hard to see Vinge get better next year when his week 2 to week 3 jump was so high after a very hard two weeks and expending energy at the front every single stage. Only thing that would be better is if it started at week 2 or start of the race.

Nothing will surprise me anymore.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What better version of pogacar? It was pogacar's best version ever. Go check his numbers. Vingegaard is simply a better GT rider than him.

Guess what, Pogacar got better from 2020 to 2021, 2021 to 2022 and 2022 to 2023. Same stuff happened with Jonas and Remco (excluding the injury), its pretty natural at this point in their careers

 

[proffate]

Altitude isn't that useful if it's short, plus he needs to recover anyway. Probably wants some family time as well, he does seem like a bit of a homeboy.

There's plenty of time between Tour and Vuelta to get the effect of altitude residence.

In fact, if you are trying to recover rather than training hard, altitude is a bit better in my anecdotal experience. That is, you can benefit from the effects of altitude without experiencing the negatives of reduced training capacity if you aren't riding high volume anyway.

 

[Andy schleck]

There's plenty of time between Tour and Vuelta to get the effect of altitude residence.

In fact, if you are trying to recover rather than training hard, altitude is a bit better in my anecdotal experience. That is, you can benefit from the effects of altitude without experiencing the negatives of reduced training capacity if you aren't riding high volume anyway.

Probably he uses a chamber in his house, doesn't make the same effects?
I think the problem is that in denmark it's impossible for him to do some work in terms of climbing. Maybe he is using zwift, i don't know, but it's not the same thing.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Probably he uses a chamber in his house, doesn't make the same effects?
I think the problem is that in denmark it's impossible for him to do some work in terms of climbing. Maybe he is using zwift, i don't know, but it's not the same thing.

I think denmark is only for off season and short periods between races. I think even when he is not doing altitude, he is often going to training in Spain or annecy to get good weather and climbs. But I might be wrong, probably some Danish fans know more.

This year its 5 weeks between TDF and la vuelta. He could do 1 weeks holidays, 1 weeks training base and then a 2 weeks camp at altitude before a taper for vuelta.

But also vuelta is the grand tour where you don't need to come from an altitude camp to do well. I think roglic don't do altitude to prepare la vuelta in 2020 or 2022, also maybe in 2021. Valverde didn't do altitude training for vuelta. If you do altitude camps to prepare le tour and then take the 4 weeks between tour and vuelta to get fresh again you can do quite well

 

[Peter von]

I think denmark is only for off season and short periods between races. I think even when he is not doing altitude, he is often going to training in Spain or annecy to get good weather and climbs. But I might be wrong, probably some Danish fans know more.

This year its 5 weeks between TDF and la vuelta. He could do 1 weeks holidays, 1 weeks training base and then a 2 weeks camp at altitude before a taper for vuelta.

But also vuelta is the grand tour where you don't need to come from an altitude camp to do well. I think roglic don't do altitude to prepare la vuelta in 2020 or 2022, also maybe in 2021. Valverde didn't do altitude training for vuelta. If you do altitude camps to prepare le tour and then take the 4 weeks between tour and vuelta to get fresh again you can do quite well

I think one of the reasons the Vingegaards are moving away from DK is so that he can train in mountains without leaving the family behind every other week or they have to follow him around when he treks the world in search of higher hills to train on.

I found this little piece from Danish TV2, where they spoke to Jumbo trainer Tim Heemskerk:
tv2.dk (edit nvm it's from last year, sorry guys)
where it basically says that right now he is still all about ridding himself of fatique, especially the mental stress that comes with riding and winning a TdF. He hasn't started to intensify training yet, but will do it when he feels it's time. Heemskerk also talks about his feeling that if Jonas is strong going out of the season, he will have a better off-season.

So looks like no or little training camp for Vingegaard and no altitude camp.

I do think with the Vuelta they aren't treating it as a big season goal. So the primary focus for Vingegaard now is to not burn out, which might result in him being under cooked going into the Vuelta. But they see it as a gamble worth taking, because if he leaves the Vuelta absolutely drained that can have a negative effect on his Winter training.
Undercooked Vingegaard can win the Vuelta(not necessarily this edition specifically) or at least get a decent result, whereas undercooked Vingegaard in Lombardia get's 14th or 16th.