Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Peyroteo94]

Visma adapted Tratnik's bike to look as similar as Vingegaard's bike. Very well played and I get the impression he was only brought to this race to help Vingegaard specifically in this stage.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You talked to absolutely no one.

Dude, he was in the team car at Alpecin when Mathieu won the Tour de France 2089. The teammates of Wout who were also in the car were telling him how much better Mathieu was than Wout.

 

[memyselfandI]

I wish I was. He didnt gain any friends or respect from his colleagues yesterday. I was suprised of the extent of it myself and it seemed to much. I tried to reach out to him and the team usually I can but yesterday I couldnt. Its not that deep but im not gonne lie I was surprised and wanted to reach out and give my support.

bs

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

We will see, he’s been fading after every hard effort but last year he looked tired af and came out fresh as a daisy after the rest day. Maybe the same thing will happen.

He's been fading mostly in comparison to a brutal in-shape prepared Pogi, but I see your point.

However, he remains a big question to me regarding the days to come. This including his normal home ground, i.e. +2000m above seal level high, long climbs.

After all, it is his lung that has been affected, where his actual numbers here are probably only known by Zeeman et al. from the Tignes training passes, and no one really knows how far his recovery is at present, I think even not himself..
And which factor ofc cannot be negledted, as Pogi seems to have improved significantly, not only speaking stamina, but due to his determined high altitude training preparations.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

His only slim chance to win this tour is to ignore all that, as he's doing. He needs to bet on Pogi not gifting anything to anyone.

Yesterday he could have taken out many of the other riders who might complicate his mission. What if in week 3 Pogi starts to suffer and fades, and suddenly Vingegaard's real rival turns out to be someone he could have taken out yesterday but refused to. It's also easier to focus on Pog when none of the others pose any sort of threat anymore. I can understand he didn't ride with Pog and Evenepoel, but not riding with Pog and Jorgenson seems like a real mistake, even though the chances were the others might have caught them, since Evenepoel was leading a large group just 50 meters back, but still.

 

[CleanCiclismo]

Also not a fan of Vingo. But why should he change a way of riding that led him to the win in the last 2 editions? The bet on the last week is on. And he is right to play it.

The only situation he potentially should have let Jorgenson contribute, was when they were with Pogi. Because he could have gained time on Evenepoel (and Roglic), would have spent no time riding in the wind as only of the top 4 probably. That came at the small risk of Pogi dropping him. But I didn't see that. He was relatively quick on his wheel and Jorgenson could still have helped as well.

There's a big difference in the whole structure of the team this season compared to 2023 and 2022. In both of those editions Jonas had the team that put fatigue into Pogačar, he doesn't have one this year. Or at least not in the high mountains. Another factor is that even if they do make the stage hard it's very likely that Pogačar will still have Ayuso, Almeida and Yates with him. And having teammates with you in mountains can be extremely important especially when you get dropped. Just look at Kuss. He saved Roglič so many times. Without him he probably would only have 1 Vuelta to his name. I can see Jonas gaining time on Pogačar but I can't see him exhausting him like in the previous years. IMO his only hope is the last TT but there's another problem. Half of it is descending. Twice now he lost huge chunks of time on descents. Stage 4 and in the TT.

 

[memyselfandI]

It's understandable that Pogi and Remco start to get nervous - as they seem - and like that start to talk too much.

There is no other rivals atm for Vingo than Pogi and Remco. It looks almost like too late for Roglic, or he's covering his cards well, at least his team is so sub par atm, with guys like Vlasov doing some stupid personal record tt's when there's absolutely no afford for that.

 

[AnotherArmChair]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbBIX9vKPRI

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There is no other rivals atm for Vingo than Pogi and Remco.

That may prove to be a risky tactic. He himself also claims the opposite, he is looking at the entire top 10 as rivals. I understand him not riding with 70k to go. But when he was with a teammate and Pogacar, it was only 15k or so (?) so the risk was a lot smaller and he still had a teammate with him. He could have taken back time on everyone except Pogacar.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Cringe rider, cringe tactics

 

[Peter von]

That may prove to be a risky tactic. He himself also claims the opposite, he is looking at the entire top 10 as rivals. I understand him not riding with 70k to go. But when he was with a teammate and Pogacar, it was only 15k or so (?) so the risk was a lot smaller and he still had a teammate with him. He could have taken back time on everyone except Pogacar.

Yeah. he also looked rather cooked at the finish line. He was hanging on for dear life at times.

I wonder what Pogi would do if Matteo had started taking pulls, but not Vingo?

 

[scribers]

Yeah. he also looked rather cooked at the finish line. He was hanging on for dear life at times.

I wonder what Pogi would do if Matteo had started taking pulls, but not Vingo?

So many potential endings made yesterdays stage unique and very exciting.

 

[memyselfandI]

That may prove to be a risky tactic. He himself also claims the opposite, he is looking at the entire top 10 as rivals. I understand him not riding with 70k to go. But when he was with a teammate and Pogacar, it was only 15k or so (?) so the risk was a lot smaller and he still had a teammate with him. He could have taken back time on everyone except Pogacar.

I think by saying like that he just takes pressure away from solely himself and his team which is understandable. By calling others to the fight he also can cause troubles to his main competitors as they need to look to more numerous tactical cases.

By not riding at all was his and/or teams decision both short and long term, margins are small atm and he's not playing with upper hand. How you win stronger enemy? Every moment Pogi or Remco got frustrated and hit out useless attack that Visma reeled in was weight of gold for Vingegaard and Visma, enemies eating themselves out and it's still 12 days to go.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Interview response to Visma tactics:

Beaucoup de critiques ont émergé, dimanche, autour du fait que vous n'avez pas collaboré avec Tadej Pogacar et Remco Evenepoel. Ce dernier a même déclaré que vous manquiez de ''cou*****''. Qu'en pensez-vous ?
Si je collaborais avec les deux alors qu'il restait 80 kilomètres, et que j'étais ensuite décroché dans un autre secteur comme ç'a été le cas, j'aurais perdu le Tour hier (dimanche). Donc je ne dirais pas que c'est un manque de ''cou*****'', je dirais que j'ai couru intelligemment. On se concentrait seulement sur le fait de ne pas perdre de temps et on a réussi à suivre notre tactique. Surtout, une fois que j'ai eu ma crevaison et que j'ai pris le vélo Jan (Tratnik, à 100 kilomètres de l'arrivée), qui n'est pas parfaitement le même, j'étais plus dans une stratégie défensive. Peut-être que les gens ne comprennent pas notre tactique, mais c'est leur problème.


A lot of criticism emerged on Sunday around the fact that you did not collaborate with Tadej Pogacar and Remco Evenepoel. The latter even declared that you lacked ''[balls]''. What do you think?
If I collaborated with both while there were 80 kilometers remaining, and then got lost in another sector as was the case, I would have lost the Tour yesterday (Sunday). So I wouldn't say it was a lack of [balls], I would say I ran intelligently. We just focused on not wasting time and we managed to follow our tactics. Above all, once I had my puncture and I took the Jan's bike (Tratnik, 100 kilometers from the finish), which is not perfectly the same. I was more in a defensive strategy. Maybe people don't understand our tactics, but that's their problem.

Jonas Vingegaard répond aux critiques sur son attentisme : « J'ai couru intelligemment »

Stigmatisé pour ne pas avoir collaboré avec Remco Evenepoel et Tadej Pogacar dimanche, le Danois a assumé suivre la stratégie de son équipe, ce lundi, lors de la journée de repos. Et il croit toujours en des jours meilleurs.

www.lequipe.fr

 

[Froome]

Cringe rider, cringe tactics

Imagine calling "cringe tatics" to the two time Tour de France champion.

There is a high chance he knows what he is doing, since he knows how to win the Tour de France.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Interview response to Visma tactics:

Beaucoup de critiques ont émergé, dimanche, autour du fait que vous n'avez pas collaboré avec Tadej Pogacar et Remco Evenepoel. Ce dernier a même déclaré que vous manquiez de ''cou*****''. Qu'en pensez-vous ?
Si je collaborais avec les deux alors qu'il restait 80 kilomètres, et que j'étais ensuite décroché dans un autre secteur comme ç'a été le cas, j'aurais perdu le Tour hier (dimanche). Donc je ne dirais pas que c'est un manque de ''cou*****'', je dirais que j'ai couru intelligemment. On se concentrait seulement sur le fait de ne pas perdre de temps et on a réussi à suivre notre tactique. Surtout, une fois que j'ai eu ma crevaison et que j'ai pris le vélo Jan (Tratnik, à 100 kilomètres de l'arrivée), qui n'est pas parfaitement le même, j'étais plus dans une stratégie défensive. Peut-être que les gens ne comprennent pas notre tactique, mais c'est leur problème.


A lot of criticism emerged on Sunday around the fact that you did not collaborate with Tadej Pogacar and Remco Evenepoel. The latter even declared that you lacked ''[balls]''. What do you think?
If I collaborated with both while there were 80 kilometers remaining, and then got lost in another sector as was the case, I would have lost the Tour yesterday (Sunday). So I wouldn't say it was a lack of [balls], I would say I ran intelligently. We just focused on not wasting time and we managed to follow our tactics. Above all, once I had my puncture and I took the Jan's bike (Tratnik, 100 kilometers from the finish), which is not perfectly the same. I was more in a defensive strategy. Maybe people don't understand our tactics, but that's their problem.

Jonas Vingegaard répond aux critiques sur son attentisme : « J'ai couru intelligemment »

Stigmatisé pour ne pas avoir collaboré avec Remco Evenepoel et Tadej Pogacar dimanche, le Danois a assumé suivre la stratégie de son équipe, ce lundi, lors de la journée de repos. Et il croit toujours en des jours meilleurs.

www.lequipe.fr

Just a heads up to you and anyone wondering, this is taken from the interview that was posted by AnotherArmchair a bit higher:

Page 253 - Teams & Riders - Jonas Vingegaard thread

Page 253 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

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[slim charles]

As others have pointed out, ignoring Remco and Roglic is a gamble. It is a legitimate strategy, with everything that happened, he has to calculate how much he can spend [everyone has to do it, obviously, but because of the injuries and everything, he has to pick his fights even more conservatively.

This suggests that he also probably isn't as strong, or at least isn't as confident in his strength as he is trying to appear in interviews. And I assume his competitors will pick up on that. Are they going to be able to do anything about it - different story.

 

[Froome]

bs

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810059333054423364

View: https://x.com/allergy_al/status/1810059333054423364


Of course is BS, but whatever. I think everybody knows where this comes from. Nevertheless, certainly Vingegaard is not worried with that.

 

[Keelhaul]

Disclaimer: I strongly dislike Vingegaard, he just rubs me the wrong way.

On the other hand, yesterday was in my opinion the most impressive ride of his career, chapeau to him, he won my absolute respect.

Anyone who rides a bike at least semi-seriously should know how big a feat that was.

 

[RobertCrawley]

As others have pointed out, ignoring Remco and Roglic is a gamble. It is a legitimate strategy, with everything that happened, he has to calculate how much he can spend [everyone has to do it, obviously, but because of the injuries and everything, he has to pick his fights even more conservatively.

This suggests that he also probably isn't as strong, or at least isn't as confident in his strength as he is trying to appear in interviews. And I assume his competitors will pick up on that. Are they going to be able to do anything about it - different story.

Sure it's a gamble to ignore Remco. If he proves himself in the high mountains, where the Tour is won and lost, you'll see some recalibrations, but not until then.

 

[Froome]

This year's Visma team for the mountains is not so strong, so it's more interesting for Vingegaard to have Roglic and Remco close to Pogacar, because not just Pogacar will have to follow them in case they attack since he is the yellow jersey, but they will put Landa, Hindley and Vlasov working to make the race hard and make the selection. That's something good for Vingegaard.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This year's Visma team for the mountains is not so strong, so it's more interesting for Vingegaard to have Roglic and Remco close to Pogacar, because not just Pogacar will have to follow them in case they attack since he is the yellow jersey, but they will put Landa, Hindley and Vlasov working to make the race hard and make the selection. That's something good for Vingegaard.

Pogacar will not do sh**, he has Yates, Almeida and Ayudo for that. He will only follow Vingegaard.

 

[Froome]

Pogacar will not do sh**, he has Yates, Almeida and Ayudo for that. He will only follow Vingegaard.

Of course he will do, because those guys are not better than Roglic and Remco. They can't follow them.

Besides that, at THE MOMENT Pogacar still needs to attack to take time on Evenepoel at least, because he can't go with 33 s to the last ITT of advantage.

So, even Emirates needs to make the race hard and attack with Pogacar.

 

[slim charles]

Sure it's a gamble to ignore Remco. If he proves himself in the high mountains, where the Tour is won and lost, you'll see some recalibrations, but not until then.

If he proves himself in the high mountains it may be too late, which is why it's, you know, a gamble. I think his form in high mountains is almost as much of a question mark as Remco's.

I don't think Jonas in last year's form [and to be fair, with last year's team] would ignore other possible opponents and focus only on Pogacar.

 

[RedheadDane]

Strange reaction. Do one has to have won the Tour to discuss with knowledge and common sense ? Even if this person proved not to have been a (professional) rider. So I assume that you have won the Tour at some point. Even if that were the case, it does not give you the right to deny others an opinion and knowledge of the matter.

I'm not saying that the two-time Tour winner was wrong for not compromising himself... unlike some people.