Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Red Rick]

Tagging on the back of pros when they're doing any kind of efforts or interval blocks is an absolute no-no..

If they're just rolling easy/ doing Z2 it's a bit different but if you're gonna sit on for more than a couple minutes it's probably best to ask if they're alright with you tagging on the back for a while.

Anyone who actually trains knows how irritating it can be when you're pushing hard. Even if you're not pushing, for someone like Jonas who is a bit on the spectrum/hypersensitive it's gonna be really annoying if someone you don't know won't get off your wheel.

If the guy cannnot read Jonas body language to see that he's not wanted there then he's clearly lacking a bit of social intelligence.

The ethical thing is if they're doing zone 2 is to start taking pulls and blow yourself up while the professional rider in question looks at you with confusion.

 

[AmRacer]

That said, I do walk, run, ride and swim close behind everyone because you never know who will become famous in the future.

Maybe there's a reason other people gathering around you 🤔

 

[RedheadDane]

It's a public road. That's the basic fact here. And Visma's error in their response is their attempt to make this a wider issue when it cannot ever be one by virtue of the fact... the roads are public and fans have as much right to ride there as the pros do.

Nobody is saying other people shouldn't be allowed to be on the road!
Just that they shouldn't be in the wheels of the pros...
I don't get this idea that just because someone is famous, doesn't mean they don't deserve the same human decency as everyone else.
So, I'll ask you:
Would jumping on the wheel of some random cyclist be okay?
Of course not!
Therefore it obviously also isn't okay to jump on the wheel of a pro.

 

[Divergence]

I wonder about the following scenario:
You are riding on a climb and pushing relatively hard (say 95%). Then a pro comes by at a speed you feel you can sustain for a bit in his wheel. Is is OK to try to hand on, even without asking? I believe it is.
Now, if you are on a flat road I think you should ask if you want to tag along and if a descend comes up give plenty of space.
If you are caught and passed by on a descend just let them go.

 

[Rackham]

So, I'll ask you:
Would jumping on the wheel of some random cyclist be okay?
Of course not!
Therefore it obviously also isn't okay to jump on the wheel of a pro.

Actually it happens all the time. I've seen this argument made by others over the past 48 hours and I really don't see what it's all about (i.e. people claiming riding on someone's wheel is a massive faux pas and no-no). If you're out there on the road (or a dedicated cycling route like a voie verte in France) you regularly come across total strangers and basically ride along. No problem. It's social.

There's zero sign that says "stay the hell of my wheel you scum!". In fact that would be deliriously anti-social.

And on the topic here, what we know is Vingegaard crashed himself on a descent. It sounds like he was in a bad mood and then projected that onto the total stranger.

 

[AmRacer]

Actually it happens all the time. I've seen this argument made by others over the past 48 hours and I really don't see what it's all about (i.e. people claiming riding on someone's wheel is a massive faux pas and no-no). If you're out there on the road (or a dedicated cycling route like a voie verte in France) you regularly come across total strangers and basically ride along. No problem. It's social.

There's zero sign that says "stay the hell of my wheel you scum!". In fact that would be deliriously anti-social.

And on the topic here, what we know is Vingegaard crashed himself on a descent. It sounds like he was in a bad mood and then projected that onto the total stranger.

When you are descending, you don't want anybody unknown close to you. Fellow pros you must trust their bike handling skills, but a nobody..Jonas got in a bad mood and crashed.

 

[RedheadDane]

If you're out there on the road (or a dedicated cycling route like a voie verte in France) you regularly come across total strangers and basically ride along. No problem. It's social.

Not everyone wants to be social while riding their bike.
And the best part is; you don't have to be social while riding you bike.

Honestly, that's the problem with some extroverts; you just seems incapable of understanding that not everything has to be a social event. However, that's a you-problem.

 

[pastronef]

a post from the Weightweenies forum

You missed the point. The default should be to not start following somebody random at all. Imagine someone following you around while walking around town, or walking your dog. Always a few meters behind you, shadowing you on every step. Or someone following a women on a run, filming her. Ask any female friend you've got. Nobody is ok with that and "normal" people would not do that in the first place. It's uncomfortable, and most times harassment. Being on a bike doesn't change that. But somehow a lot of people forget that while riding their bikes.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I maybe missed the beginning of this story: there is talk of the "interfering" rider being some cycling influencer or content creator.

So his motivation is those who respond to his material on whatever platform that is: there is something of a hypocrisy in criticism of his methods while being consumers of his product.

 

[pastronef]

I maybe missed the beginning of this story: there is talk of the "interfering" rider being some cycling influencer or content creator.

So his motivation is those who respond to his material on whatever platform that is: there is something of a hypocrisy in criticism of his methods while being consumers of his product.

I'm not a consumer of his product. I hate people chasing the pros, I hate tourists waiting for the pros, I hate ppl stalking them on Strava etc.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I'm not a consumer of his product. I hate people chasing the pros, I hate tourists waiting for the pros, I hate ppl stalking them on Strava etc.

That's fine: not intended as a response to anyone in particular, but I suspect that the duality is present in some of the critics, not necessarily in this forum.

 

[Netserk]

uh, how would that be hypocritical

if i consume the products of meta, alphabet, x, and amazon, criticism of any particular working methods of those companies also wouldn't be hypocritical

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

uh, how would that be hypocritical

Those who create demand for shots at close quarters of riders in training cannot honestly complain about the practice of photographing riders from close up while they are training.

In the same way as it is rarely greed or desperation that gives rise to theft, as much as the market for stolen goods.

 

[awavey]

Those who create demand for shots at close quarters of riders in training cannot honestly complain about the practice of photographing riders from close up while they are training.

In the same way as it is rarely greed or desperation that gives rise to theft, as much as the market for stolen goods.

do many people, if any, demand such shots ?

loads of pros are on training camps right now, if I want to know what theyre upto, I follow their accounts, I dont follow some cycling level TMZ.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

do many people, if any, demand such shots ?

loads of pros are on training camps right now, if I want to know what theyre upto, I follow their accounts, I dont follow some cycling level TMZ.

If he makes an income from these images, then apparently, yes, there is a demand.

 

[memyselfandI]

Tagging on the back of pros when they're doing any kind of efforts or interval blocks is an absolute no-no..

If they're just rolling easy/ doing Z2 it's a bit different but if you're gonna sit on for more than a couple minutes it's probably best to ask if they're alright with you tagging on the back for a while.

Anyone who actually trains knows how irritating it can be when you're pushing hard. Even if you're not pushing, for someone like Jonas who is a bit on the spectrum/hypersensitive it's gonna be really annoying if someone you don't know won't get off your wheel.

If the guy cannnot read Jonas body language to see that he's not wanted there then he's clearly lacking a bit of social intelligence.

+100

Just guessing the thing that got Vingo upset, crashing and angry: When riding hard and fast with others, you're not only focusing others on your side and front of you.

You are also just a bit tense of possible sudden group braking situations and someone crashing on your back wheel, on your arms, legs, whatever causing sometimes visit to ER. Can get you pretty tense, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Probably less with fellow pros who know all these nuances and case adapt. Probably loads more if someone unknown gets glued to you and you suddenly wonder if there's a risk, lets say this unknown does not brake that late and hard as you do and btw is just focused fiddling his camera or whatever.

And as all this **** creeps inside your head in the middle of some WT pro level hard interval (lightspeed for many of us) you just might make mistake yourself. A fatal one actually in those speeds. Heck, one look too much and it's case Egan Bernal pretty quickly.

 

[Red Rick]

If he makes an income from these images, then apparently, yes, there is a demand.

Are photo's that riders or team post photo's taken by strangers?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No: I'm referring to the reported status of whoever is being blamed for the fall as someone who makes money as a 'cycling influencer'. What is on teams' social media is presumably photographed in a controlled way and with riders' consent and knowledge.