Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[Benotti69]

It's hard to believe the overall winner of the ToB was not tested, whatever Brian Smith says.

I am sure UKAD could've done blood tests if they wished.

But as ToB is on UCI Europe Tour and I guess they dont conduct blood testing at these events otherwise JTL would've been blood tested at a good few events in 2012, Tour du Haut Var, Tour Alsace, Vuelta a Murcia and Tour_Méditerranéen

 

[thehog]

It's hard to believe the overall winner of the ToB was not tested, whatever Brian Smith says.

Passport testing is separated from in competition testing though.

 

[thehog]

Or maybe miraculously he was clean last year and the sky dope has caused the red flag and possibly the illness, more of a long shot though.

Or doped last year on his own and again this year with Sky and got sick?

Roberto Heres at Liberty all over again.

 

[SundayRider]

Passport testing is separated from in competition testing though.

So not all tests count towards the passport?

 

[thehog]

So not all tests count towards the passport?

Of course not. How could a urine test be testing for a low rec count?

Passport is blood testing.

And on that note. There's not some big dope testing machine that tests for everything. Urine is tested for specific substances. There is very little EPO testing on urine. As they only have a limited sample which doesn't allow every substance to be tested for.

In theory the passport is to assist target testing. ie you'd see a pattern of EPO use and then you'd urine test the rider when you worked out their pattern.

But no not all testing is the same.

 

[SundayRider]

Of course not. How could a urine test be testing for a low rec count?

Passport is blood testing.

And on that note. There's not some big dope testing machine that tests for everything. Urine is tested for specific substances. There is very little EPO testing on urine. As they only have a limited sample which doesn't allow every substance to be tested for.

In theory the passport is to assist target testing. ie you'd see a pattern of EPO use and then you'd urine test the rider when you worked out their pattern.

But no not all testing is the same.

No I didn't mean that, I don't think you understood my question completely. I knew that urine tests aren't in the passport. What I meant was, do all blood tests, in competition, out of competition, off season etc all count towards the passport.

 

[thehog]

No I didn't mean that, I don't think you understood my question completely. I knew that urine tests aren't in the passport. What I meant was, do all blood tests, in competition, out of competition, off season etc all count towards the passport.

Yes they do. With the exception of the health tests I believe. But I'll be corrected on that one.

In reference to JTL because he was a Conti rider and not part of the passport he wouldn't have been tested for the bio. There's no chance unless he was in a UCI sanctioned race which conducted the testing. Which is the WCs. Outside of this I can't see where else he would have been tested for the passport.

 

[MartinGT]

A link on UKAD about what is tested in the passport for people who wanna know more.

http://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article...y-proceedings-against-a-professional-cyclist/

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Pro Sky argument:

Anyway, on topic: JTL most likely raced ToB and the Worlds clean but perhaps his preparation for them was not. It's taken a year to set his baseline and now UCI see a case to answer. This makes Sky look more naive than they did hiring Leinders, Barry, Yates etc but it doesn't point to a team-wide programme.

BroDeal's argument:

"That is the genius of Brailsford. You see when anything goes right it is because he is a brilliant micromanager who pays attention to every detail, no matter how small, and plans things to a degree no other cycling manager in the world would think of doing. When anything goes wrong it is because he is a dupe, too trusting, or just downright incompetent. Evidently this Inspector Clouseau-like job performance is good enough to get one a knighthood in Jolly old England."

Yup, Sky's just naive and possibly a little slack or disorganized...

Apart from the fact they've created three of the most dominant GT riders in recent (even dope-addled) memory.

The only naivete I'm seeing is that of people lapping up Sky's PR...

 

[Franklin]

Pro Sky argument:



BroDeal's argument:

"That is the genius of Brailsford. You see when anything goes right it is because he is a brilliant micromanager who pays attention to every detail, no matter how small, and plans things to a degree no other cycling manager in the world would think of doing. When anything goes wrong it is because he is a dupe, too trusting, or just downright incompetent. Evidently this Inspector Clouseau-like job performance is good enough to get one a knighthood in Jolly old England."

Yup, Sky's just naive and possibly a little slack or disorganized...

Apart from the fact they've created three of the most dominant GT riders in recent (even dope-addled) memory.

The only naivete I'm seeing is that of people lapping up Sky's PR...

Yes, it's amazing... the best manager cycling has ever seen with tremendous eye for detail... Forgets to do background checks.

I mean, who would ever imagine the guilt of Geert 'Rasmussen" Leinders? Mick "Freiburg" Rogers? John Tiernan "Too many rumors" Locke? Steven "TVM 1998" de Jongh? Bobby "Cofidis and USPS" Julich? Jeremy "Banesto" hunt?

Some would say it's beyond incredullous to think he had no idea. But I guess DB is just a silly old dupe who really trusts everyone. I mean, it's not that he saw his protege being escorted into jail or anything as shocking as that....

 

[The Hitch]

It's hard to believe the overall winner of the ToB was not tested, whatever Brian Smith says.

Words that come out of Brian Smith's mouth should be taken about as seriously as anything rhat comes out of Armstrongs. This is the lying scumbag who defended Armstrong full on, attacked usada as a waste of time swore nothing ever went on at us postal, then the day Armstrong loses his tours comes out crying with an article about how he saw Armstrong doping and how opposed he was to it.

If a revolution happened in cycling him and his like would be right up there with ligget, Armstrong, mcquaid on the - "Banished: go die in what way seems best for you", list

 

[gooner]

Well if that is true it does change things substantially. My theory proves incorrect.

Appears Brailsford has been attempting to shift the blame to Endura but the kid as been dying from the dope all year.

Also someone has told Walsh a pork pie that it was the ToB.

Interesting times.

Stokes has just put up the interview with Smith.

Smith has raised questions about the case, saying that suggestions that the bio passport irregularities dated back to the Tour of Britain are misleading.

“He never got blood tested during the Tour of Britain, it was all urine tests,” he said. “The only blood test while he was riding under Endura colours was when he agreed to go to Jonathan Vaughters [Team Garmin Sharp’s manager – ed.] to get tested. I think it was at the middle of March 2012. That has been documented and there were no irregularities. He [Vaughters] wanted to progress and try to sign him.”

“Jon never got [blood] tested at all when he was with Endura at the Tour of Britain. So I don’t know the details on when this irregular blood test counted for. But it wasn’t while racing under Endura at that time.”

No blood test was taken from Jon Tiernan Locke by the UCI until at least after the Tour of Britain. I can’t confirm beyond that. But while he was racing with Endura [until mid September – ed.], he had no blood tests, apart from the blood test with Garmin when he visited them in Girona.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...spite-UCIs-anti-doping-violation-process.aspx

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Yes, it's amazing... the best manager cycling has ever seen with tremendous eye for detail... Forgets to do background checks.

I mean, who would ever imagine the guilt of Geert 'Rasmussen" Leinders? Mick "Freiburg" Rogers? John Tiernan "Too many rumors" Locke? Steven "TVM 1998" de Jongh? Bobby "Cofidis and USPS" Julich? Jeremy "Banesto" hunt?

Some would say it's beyond incredullous to think he had no idea. But I guess DB is just a silly old dupe who really trusts everyone. I mean, it's not that he saw his protege being escorted into jail or anything as shocking as that....

The whole idea of background checks is a bit of BS.

If you're as entrenched in cycling as Sir Dave, you know what's going on. You see it a races, you hear it from riders, you have experienced staff to bounce things off of...

As your list makes clear, the list of sketchy riders/staff is obvious and was obvious before they ever got involved with Sky.

 

[thehog]

Stokes has just put up the interview with Smith.







http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...spite-UCIs-anti-doping-violation-process.aspx

It is interesting that Brailsford has been fingering Endura.

The problem may exist at the WCs which puts BC in the firing line.

Or the problem is later. Sky.

Per my previous post. Sky/BC are one of the same.

 

[skidmark]

Maybe team Sky have a secret team of warlocks that convene in Tenerife and agree to suck the life essence and power out of promising riders to deliver to their chosen avatars on the team. The likes of Appollonio, Lofkvist and (constantly, as he's the Golden Source of power) Boasson Hagen consistently underperform with Sky because their power has been given over to Froome, Porte, Wiggins, and scattered around to various helpers at various times.

This is what happened to JTL; his power was real last year and he was a (pardon the allusion) 'diamond in the rough'... but then the warlocks took his power on Tenerife and it triggered the BP.

That's my new pet theory.

 

[The Hitch]

Maybe team Sky have a secret team of warlocks that convene in Tenerife and agree to suck the life essence and power out of promising riders to deliver to their chosen avatars on the team. The likes of Appollonio, Lofkvist and (constantly, as he's the Golden Source of power) Boasson Hagen consistently underperform with Sky because their power has been given over to Froome, Porte, Wiggins, and scattered around to various helpers at various times.

This is what happened to JTL; his power was real last year and he was a (pardon the allusion) 'diamond in the rough'... but then the warlocks took his power on Tenerife and it triggered the BP.

That's my new pet theory.

This is similar to my theory.

It had occured to me that Andy schleck and Chris froome are almost exactly the same age (froome is actually older by about a month)
I also realized that Froomes transformation from gruppeto to gt winner occured at exactly the same time that Andy had his last remotely credible performance. (July 2011 for Andy and a month later froome is owning the vuelta)

There are also clear similarities in their difficulties in rain and on descents, they have the same height, the same weak tt positions and unattractive pedaling style. The only difference is tts but Andy was improving in those.

It seems to me the same person who won on galibier and tourmalet is still winning - on ventoux, ax3, albeit now in the body of Chris froome and Chris froome continues to suck but as Andy schleck. Frank's positive was a warning- this is what happens if you speak out.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Maybe team Sky have a secret team of warlocks that convene in Tenerife and agree to suck the life essence and power out of promising riders to deliver to their chosen avatars on the team. The likes of Appollonio, Lofkvist and (constantly, as he's the Golden Source of power) Boasson Hagen consistently underperform with Sky because their power has been given over to Froome, Porte, Wiggins, and scattered around to various helpers at various times.

This is what happened to JTL; his power was real last year and he was a (pardon the allusion) 'diamond in the rough'... but then the warlocks took his power on Tenerife and it triggered the BP.

That's my new pet theory.

The Telepathic Power Distribution model developed by Brailsford's Laboratory for Advanced Studies.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I am sure UKAD could've done blood tests if they wished.

But as ToB is on UCI Europe Tour and I guess they dont conduct blood testing at these events otherwise JTL would've been blood tested at a good few events in 2012, Tour du Haut Var, Tour Alsace, Vuelta a Murcia and Tour_Méditerranéen

As a reminder, the anti-doping authority in the events mentioned above would be either the promoter or the UCI. In either case, blood tests are expensive relative to low cost, easily defeated, urine tests.

Again, this is the beauty of the system. The appearance of testing, just don't fail the easy to circumvent tests requested by the promoter or the UCI. Even if you fail the IQ test, the UCI might not open a case.

I don't have the link, but I recall the UCI/WADA?? publishing the percentage of blood tests taken and it was quite low.

 

[del1962]

This is similar to my theory.

It had occured to me that Andy schleck and Chris froome are almost exactly the same age (froome is actually older by about a month)
I also realized that Froomes transformation from gruppeto to gt winner occured at exactly the same time that Andy had his last remotely credible performance. (July 2011 for Andy and a month later froome is owning the vuelta)

There are also clear similarities in their difficulties in rain and on descents, they have the same height, the same weak tt positions and unattractive pedaling style. The only difference is tts but Andy was improving in those.

It seems to me the same person who won on galibier and tourmalet is still winning - on ventoux, ax3, albeit now in the body of Chris froome and Chris froome continues to suck but as Andy schleck. Frank's positive was a warning- this is what happens if you speak out.

Andy must have learnt to time trial

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Andy must have learnt to time trial

Baby S was a very good TT'er in the youth ranks Del. Do stay informed

 

[maltiv]

There are also clear similarities in their difficulties in rain and on descents, they have the same height, the same weak tt positions and unattractive pedaling style. The only difference is tts but Andy was improving in those.

Andy has an unattractive pedaling style? I always thought he had a great style, very fluent and little motion in the upper body (on the road bike, that is).

 

[orbeas]

Jtl

Interesting article on Velonation by Brian Smith

seems JTL did not have any UCI blood tests in 2012 up too October anyway..

so where were the dodgy tests done ???

 

[thehog]

Interesting article on Velonation by Brian Smith

seems JTL did not have any UCI blood tests in 2012 up too October anyway..

so where were the dodgy tests done ???

Most likely riding the Worlds for British Cycling.

But that's an Endura problem, right?

 

[coinneach]

Of course not. How could a urine test be testing for a low rec count?

Passport is blood testing.

And on that note. There's not some big dope testing machine that tests for everything. Urine is tested for specific substances. There is very little EPO testing on urine. As they only have a limited sample which doesn't allow every substance to be tested for.

In theory the passport is to assist target testing. ie you'd see a pattern of EPO use and then you'd urine test the rider when you worked out their pattern.

But no not all testing is the same.

The UCI disagrees with you : Urine tests ARE part of passport

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU4ODY&LangId=1

 

[Cyivel]

The UCI disagrees with you : Urine tests ARE part of passport

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU4ODY&LangId=1

This was added recently I believe so wouldn't have been in play at the end of last year.