Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[Benotti69]

The part I still don't get is if the teams interested in him had the data from his bio-passport wouldn't they have seen the abnormalities? But all I keep reading is it happened before Sky, but wouldn't they have the most up to date info when he joined the team?

And to be fair, Sky isn't the only team that has taken on a rider who has then been busted...

....................and to be fair, Sky are the team shouting the loudest about being clean, transparent and doing it on marginal gains with the strictest attention to every detail.........

With Garmin's test results on JTL plus their own ( i doubt they did any, i am being sarcastic) Sky should've had a completely transparent picture of JTL's natural abilities........and they gave him a contract..

 

[Almeisan]

So we still don't know how JTL doped. So why is he allowed back into the sport before he tells the truth?

 

[Benotti69]

So we still don't know how JTL doped. So why is he allowed back into the sport before he tells the truth?

Because like David Millar, he will return with an anti doping glow telling us about the non anglo saxons doping on his next team, then he will join a team formed by an ex doper and full of ex dopers where the true path to cleanER cycling has been achieved.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So we still don't know how JTL doped. So why is he allowed back into the sport before he tells the truth?

The WADA code doesn't require a banned athlete to say anything. They just have to serve their time, and then they can come back. (If telling the truth was required then a ban would effectively be a lifetime ban for a first offence, which wouldn't hold up in court.)

He'd get a reduced ban for spilling the beans in a meaningful way.

 

[thehog]

Then got a fat contract with Endura and that wasnt enough so he chased more dollars and upped the dosage?

Yes he went from 24k a year at Condor to 30k at Endura.

Cashed in big time!

 

[thehog]

I don't 'get' the blood spinner comment, sorry.

Has JTL been found in possession of a centrifuge?....they're not that expensive (1 - 2k in the UK) so a rider serious about his doping would be able to afford one.
For me they come under the paraphernalia banner and it makes me very uneasy that teams have things like this.... if they weren't manipulating haematocrit they wouldn't need a blood spinner in my opinion.

No he was found to be doping at the Worlds with BC. Period.

 

[ebandit]

well done hoggy

No he was found to be riding at the Worlds with BC. Period.

please stick to the truth hoggy

or can you share proof of BC programme rather than JTL doping?

Mark L

 

[thehog]

please stick to the truth hoggy

or can you share proof of BC programme rather than JTL doping?

Mark L

Sure. The UCI press release stated JTL was stripped of his of his Worlds result for doping. Whilst riding for BC/Sky.

Fairly straight forward.

 

[ebandit]

yes!

Sure. The UCI press release stated JTL was stripped of his of his Worlds result for doping. Whilst riding for BC/Sky.

Fairly straight forward.

yes! but your lie was JTL was doping with BC not JTL was riding with BC

Mark L

 

[thehog]

yes! but your lie was JTL was doping with BC not JTL was riding with BC

Mark L

Why get personal?

The lie is coming from Brailsford. It's fairly straight forward that he doped to perform. He rode very well whilst doped with British Cycling.

Why do you throw JTL under the bus? Are you not worried BC dopes it's riders?

 

[Catwhoorg]

The part I still don't get is if the teams interested in him had the data from his bio-passport wouldn't they have seen the abnormalities? But all I keep reading is it happened before Sky, but wouldn't they have the most up to date info when he joined the team?

And to be fair, Sky isn't the only team that has taken on a rider who has then been busted...

As a conti rider, there was no bio passport to examine.

A one off test would show any patterns. If he had 60% HCT that would be one thing, but something normal or even a bit high would not be suspicious.

 

[msjett]

....................and to be fair, Sky are the team shouting the loudest about being clean, transparent and doing it on marginal gains with the strictest attention to every detail.........

With Garmin's test results on JTL plus their own ( i doubt they did any, i am being sarcastic) Sky should've had a completely transparent picture of JTL's natural abilities........and they gave him a contract..

What's that saying, the devil is in the details?

 

[the sceptic]

yes! but your lie was JTL was doping with BC not JTL was riding with BC

Mark L

JTL doped. Sky checked him out on Tenerife and followed him closely for the rest of the year. Do the math, Mark.

 

[msjett]

As a conti rider, there was no bio passport to examine.

A one off test would show any patterns. If he had 60% HCT that would be one thing, but something normal or even a bit high would not be suspicious.

Wouldn't he have had to have a number of tests to start his passport to move into the world tour?

 

[thehog]

Wouldn't he have had to have a number of tests to start his passport to move into the world tour?

6 months in the testing pool is all that was required. He was drug tested throughout 2012 but not passport. He'd been in the testing pool since he came back in 2007/08.

 

[msjett]

6 months in the testing pool is all that was required. He was drug tested throughout 2012 but not passport. He'd been in the testing pool since he came back in 2007/08.

I am not overly familiar with the process so I do appreciate the additional information.

Still there appears to be an inherent risk in taking on a continental rider...

 

[argyllflyer]

I am not overly familiar with the process so I do appreciate the additional information.

Still there appears to be an inherent risk in taking on a continental rider...

That's acknowledged by Brailsford. If you sign any rider from Continental level or U23/Junior, there will be no blood passport data. However, unless it is enforced at those levels, there's no way around it. Even just now teams have their stagiaires lined up for August, Sky apparently taking on David Martinelli again, Tinkoff a former HTC rider (Guldhammer), Orica have Caleb Ewan, just to name a few. I don't think any of them will have been on the biopassport in 2014 - maybe Ewan as his arrival was announced ages ago.

JTL was first tested for the blood passport around the time of Tour of Britain in 2012 and was again at the Worlds that year. When those readings were compared with data collected in early 2013 it did not add up as the 2012 levels were by all accounts elevated. The attempts to pin JTL's doping in 2012 on Sky is the usual level of ill-informed and biased debate prevalent on here.

 

[thehog]

I am not overly familiar with the process so I do appreciate the additional information.

Still there appears to be an inherent risk in taking on a continental rider...

Not really. In saying that, Continental riders generally go to Pro-Cont. then ProTour. They don't jump one pay grade like JTL did. Or they come through a cycling academy / federation and are well known with a variant on the passport.

Kerrison did all the numbers on JTL for a good period from April 2012 after they gave him a letter of intent. He passed all the drug tests through 2012.

There's a risk with any rider. The passport doesn't really give you a definitive answer either.

But you'd expect with all those training camps in Tenerife that if he was getting dropped like a stone they wouldn't have taken him on. If he wasn't getting dropped they'd be testing his lactate and power numbers, which they did.

So they knew he was talented and that he should be signed. What happened at the ToB & Worlds is of huge concern. Who was Sky's leader at the ToB that year?

I should add; there's not many ProTour riders who get the race program JTL got in year one. They really did over train him. Most first years get a few B races and one or two bigger races for experience. He jumped into ProTour and everyone expected him to win. That was a big ask. Doping or not doping.

 

[ebandit]

maths

JTL doped. Sky checked him out on Tenerife and followed him closely for the rest of the year. Do the math, Mark.

maths? do you mean it's like quantum physics and where there is limited data

the rest is made up......................gutta admit yourself and hoggy are better

at that

Mark L

 

[DirtyWorks]

The attempts to pin JTL's doping in 2012 on Sky is the usual level of ill-informed and biased debate prevalent on here.

Who is ill-informed? Please correct any errors you find.

Except, you won't because that's not the point of baseless claims.

Also, the casual reader may need to be reminded that Sky and BC are one and the same. Perhaps best summarized as BC provides a variety of services to the Sky organization.

 

[DirtyWorks]

yes! but your lie was JTL was doping with BC not JTL was riding with BC

Mark L

BC and Sky are the same thing.

 

[mrhender]

PR?

Hey folks...

How do you think this case with JTL will affect the SKY PR strategy in the time to come?

So far (before this and TUE) they have been very offensive with the anti dope-holiness, but from what I've seen of their reactions in the aftermath of this, they have been pretty defensive..
Will this continue, or are the pursuing an acquittal behind the scenes since they haven't been too damning?? In their comments as to JTL yet?
------------
The conspiracy angle below..
------------
Is this case an example of "wag the dog"? Pure speculation of course..
(but given the rumours of UCI and SKY beeing secret lovers the question has merits?)

 

[the sceptic]

Sky doesnt want to talk about doping unless it is about how clean they are. Brailsford will keep spewing nonsense about zero tolerance with Walsh as chief bot.

But as long as its only the french and Shane Stokes asking questions, its not too bad. I believe the future will be that JTL doesnt exist, and if he does his so called doping had nothing to do with sky or BC.

 

[ebandit]

pleeeeeeeeeaaaase

BC and Sky are the same thing.

pleeeeeeeeeaaaase don't keep picking me up correcting me unless I have stated something incorrect

my post was correcting hoggy who stated 'JTL was doping with BC' I amended that to the more precise 'JTL was riding with BC'

no observation about the heairachy of command/sponsorship

thanks!
Mark L

 

[thehog]

pleeeeeeeeeaaaase don't keep picking me up correcting me unless I have stated something incorrect

my post was correcting hoggy who stated 'JTL was doping with BC' I amended that to the more precise 'JTL was riding with BC'

no observation about the heairachy of command/sponsorship

thanks!
Mark L

You corrected nothing in relation to my post. You just gave your own incorrect interpretation.

I'm sorry but it cannot be any more straight forward. And you're in denial.

And stop throwing JTL under the bus and blaming him for Sky's/BCs preparation of the rider.