Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thrawn]

I actually think illnesses are more used to excuse poor performances when the riders aren't doping.

I think illnesses are used as an excuse for poor performances whether they are related or unrelated to doping. Easier to make an excuse than admit you got your training wrong.

 

[the sceptic]

What happened? does he have badzilla?

 

[Netserk]

What happened? does he have badzilla?

Nope, that's only for the A-team.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I think illnesses are used as an excuse for poor performances whether they are related or unrelated to doping. Easier to make an excuse than admit you got your training wrong.

Probably. It just brings to mind the un-named virus that laid Cadel low for the entire of the 2012

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Dirt in their mouths? Bacteria?

I remember writing something up about this for CN years ago.

Very oversimplified it was: the cows poop in the fields. It rains, and the poop-infected water runs down to the road where it turns into puddles and mud. Cyclists ride through these, it splashes up on to their bikes and most importantly, their water bottles. So everytime they take a drink, they get a load of cow poop. Which is not really good for the human body.

 

[thehog]

I remember writing something up about this for CN years ago.

Very oversimplified it was: the cows poop in the fields. It rains, and the poop-infected water runs down to the road where it turns into puddles and mud. Cyclists ride through these, it splashes up on to their bikes and most importantly, their water bottles. So everytime they take a drink, they get a load of cow poop. Which is not really good for the human body.

Maybe that's what happened to Cpntador? He didn't eat steak but cow poop?

You are well travelled Susan!

 

[JimmyFingers]

The much misunderstood Dr Ferrari alluded to it in one of his blog posts about the large number of riders coming down with viruses during the Giro this year

 

[DirtyWorks]

The much misunderstood Dr Ferrari alluded to it in one of his blog posts about the large number of riders coming down with viruses during the Giro this year

The suggestion was made this is a longitudinal positive. He'd have to be sick all year. And that's different than his complaint about not recovering/adapting to too many hours.

 

[Benotti69]

I did play the ball.

Generic You.

Remember, the original comment wasn't actually made by you, B, so the response on it could hardly have been aimed at you.

Anyway, onwards.

Maybe it is like waiting for Godot. in which case, tough. Still not good enough reason to ignore the basic reality that conclusion follows facts, not the other way round.

it aint tough for me. I'm not waiting. Sky are doping.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I thought the opposite was true: that riding in the cold and wet and getting the spray from the road in their mouths and all the various bacteria in it means riders are more susceptible to illnesses rather than impervious. Their low body fat percentage, long hours in the saddle and the extremes of hot and cold they have to ride through weakens their immune system, despite the attention of doctors. That's anecdotal so I don't have source, but then so was yours .

I actually think illnesses are more used to excuse poor performances when the riders aren't doping.

I think the case is actually reverse. If somebody does that sort of a thing for a day/week, it is quite possible that illness will be the result. But doing the riding that they do day in day out should allow the body to develop resistance to the normal viruses/bacteria and acclimatisation to the weather as well. For eg in a rainy Paris Roubaix, based on the amount of mud swallowed by the riders any normal human would come down with something but the riders remain in good health.

 

[martinvickers]

it aint tough for me. I'm not waiting. Sky are doping.

They may well be, they may not be. But your statement on it is no more than an expulsion of gas without logic and evidence. It just has no value.

 

[Benotti69]

They may well be, they may not be. But your statement on it is no more than an expulsion of gas without logic and evidence. It just has no value.

the clinic has no value, it is a forum, try not and invest too much in it Marty you'll only get hurt

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I remember writing something up about this for CN years ago.

Very oversimplified it was: the cows poop in the fields. It rains, and the poop-infected water runs down to the road where it turns into puddles and mud. Cyclists ride through these, it splashes up on to their bikes and most importantly, their water bottles. So everytime they take a drink, they get a load of cow poop. Which is not really good for the human body.

Cows are not kept in the same fields indefinitely. They get moved between fields, and often move along the road to either change fields or go to where they are being milked, and then back again.

Water sprays up off the back of rear wheels - as a continual stream - when it's raining or wet. And it's pretty rare to be racing in a classic with your mouth closed, given you're at threshold so often.

Add cows pooping on the road as they are moved, wet roads, riders riding with open mouths, spray off the back of the wheel, and it's pretty easy to see how they get poop in their mouths.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Maybe that's what happened to Cpntador? He didn't eat steak but cow poop?

You are well travelled Susan!

Lol well done

Let me just say that a lot of the things we touch during the day have fecal bacteria on them, from door handles to keyboards to money to phones. And when you don't wash your hands before you eat your sandwich...!!! What I'm trying to say is that it's not just cyclists who come into contact with poop

 

[the sceptic]

They may well be, they may not be. But your statement on it is no more than an expulsion of gas without logic and evidence. It just has no value.

Ball not man Martin.

Im impressed that after so many posts and so much time spent in the clinic you are still "not sure"

How does sitting on the fence and being "not sure" about everything provide any value to the forum?

 

[thehog]

Lol well done

Let me just say that a lot of the things we touch during the day have fecal bacteria on them, from door handles to keyboards to money to phones. And when you don't wash your hands before you eat your sandwich...!!! What I'm trying to say is that it's not just cyclists who come into contact with poop

Some people pay others to drop a turd on them.

The world is full of strange persons.

 

[del1962]

Lol well done

Let me just say that a lot of the things we touch during the day have fecal bacteria on them, from door handles to keyboards to money to phones. And when you don't wash your hands before you eat your sandwich...!!! What I'm trying to say is that it's not just cyclists who come into contact with poop

Yeah, but you are more susceptible to picking up an illness when you are pushing your body close to its limits, whether training or racing.

 

[MartinGT]

This is just petulant; as a comment just reads like lashing out at a team you don't like.

Sky is a cycling team, like all the rest. Cycling teams are not BUPA.

We don't even know yet what JTL (claims he) got. How on earth can you deduce what sort of care a team could have taken from a state of such basic ignorance, it's absurd.

No

Its me making a sarcastic comment that a team with a budget of millions and some world class doctors and coaches, their assets are not very well looked after if they keep getting ill.

Its me thinking Hmmmmm "Which person hid behind an illness for years and won 7 TdF?"

Its me getting sick of the lame excuses Sky are coming up with

Its me getting sick of hearing the same excuses.

Who's next to be ill? Porte no doubt!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

All the talks about bacteria reminds me of this scene of Paulie Walnuts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1r73mYfKY

 

[martinvickers]

Ball not man Martin.

Im impressed that after so many posts and so much time spent in the clinic you are still "not sure"

How does sitting on the fence and being "not sure" about everything provide any value to the forum?

1. I'm glad your impressed, though i'm not sure that it matters what you are.

2. You call it sitting on the fence. I call it honesty. And what it provides is a helpful corrective to the misguided certainties of others who treat their hunches, and occasionally their biases, as some great repository of wisdom and knowledge.

Which you oddly seem to resent, based on a number of your posts to or about me.

You once wrote something on the lines that something alleged did not need to be "100% true" to be an "enjoyable reading experience".

I just can't get my head around the idea that as long as the lie is fun, it's ok. After all, is that not how cycling ended up here - not 100% true, but an "enjoyable viewing experience"?

The truth matters. It really does. Hell, this forum wouldn't even exist at all without the basic impulse to 'uncover' the truth about doping in cycling.

But sometimes the truth, genuinely is, "we don't know" - "we don't have the info yet" - "we'll have to wait and see".

And i reserve the right to call bullsh!t when other don't have the patience, or the fairness, to face that truth.

Regardless of whether it's a "enjoyable viewing experience".

 

[martinvickers]

No

Its me making a sarcastic comment that a team with a budget of millions and some world class doctors and coaches, their assets are not very well looked after if they keep getting ill.

AS I said, petulant.

Its me thinking Hmmmmm "Which person hid behind an illness for years and won 7 TdF?"

1. did he ride for Sky?
2. Did he claim to be suffering that illness while 'winning' those tours

No. Hence irrelevant. Its just pure sneer. No actual worth.

Its me getting sick of the lame excuses Sky are coming up with

Its me getting sick of hearing the same excuses.

I don't care why the response was petulant. You can be as sick as you like. Doesn't change the fact that was a stupid thing to post, based on nothing but bile against the team. Which is fair enough. But I'm going to call what it is.

Who's next to be ill? Porte no doubt!

I bow to your powers of clairevoyence.

 

[Benotti69]

1. I'm glad your impressed, though i'm not sure that it matters what you are.

2. You call it sitting on the fence. I call it honesty. And what it provides is a helpful corrective to the misguided certainties of others who treat their hunches, and occasionally their biases, as some great repository of wisdom and knowledge.

Which you oddly seem to resent, based on a number of your posts to or about me.

You once wrote something on the lines that something alleged did not need to be "100% true" to be an "enjoyable reading experience".

I just can't get my head around the idea that as long as the lie is fun, it's ok. After all, is that not how cycling ended up here - not 100% true, but an "enjoyable viewing experience"?

The truth matters. It really does. Hell, this forum wouldn't even exist at all without the basic impulse to 'uncover' the truth about doping in cycling.

But sometimes the truth, genuinely is, "we don't know" - "we don't have the info yet" - "we'll have to wait and see".

And i reserve the right to call bullsh!t when other don't have the patience, or the fairness, to face that truth.

Regardless of whether it's a "enjoyable viewing experience".

This where you are misguided. The bolded and its badly disguised insults fails to address is the history of cycling and how those who have watched the sport closely have seen it all before. Sky are just the latest in line to try and sell sand to the arabs. We can trace many of Sky's excuses, PR gaffs, bluffs, smoke screens and so called new age training back through the history of the sport.

Call bull**** on people being distrustful of Sky, Garmin and all the teams in the sport shows how naive or blindly stupid fans are, but history again has shown that fans are naive and stupid and line the cols and alps in their millions to cheer the cheats.

 

[martinvickers]

This where you are misguided. The bolded and its badly disguised insults fails to address is the history of cycling and how those who have watched the sport closely have seen it all before. Sky are just the latest in line to try and sell sand to the arabs. We can trace many of Sky's excuses, PR gaffs, bluffs, smoke screens and so called new age training back through the history of the sport.

Call bull**** on people being distrustful of Sky, Garmin and all the teams in the sport shows how naive or blindly stupid fans are, but history again has shown that fans are naive and stupid and line the cols and alps in their millions to cheer the cheats.

Where are the insults, disguised or otherwise? Are you seriously suggesting there are NO biases?

We've done this conversation to death, B.

"They all always did it. They all still do it. They all always will do it. Except Greg Lemond" is not a statement of fact, but an expression of religious faith.

And I've no interest in, and no time for, treating religious incantations like they are reasoned arguments to be taken seriously, sorry. I might as well debate the Magnificat - nonsense.

 

[pmcg76]

Where are the insults, disguised or otherwise? Are you seriously suggesting there are NO biases?

We've done this conversation to death, B.

"They all always did it. They all still do it. They all always will do it. Except Greg Lemond" is not a statement of fact, but an expression of religious faith.

And I've no interest in, and no time for, treating religious incantations like they are reasoned arguments to be taken seriously, sorry. I might as well debate the Magnificat - nonsense.

I think anyone who claims that the situation in Northern Ireland is no better than 25 years ago and that's it's just the media ignoring it that makes it seem better can easily be dismissed as not credible. What is the tag at the end of ChewbaccaD's posts??

 

[Benotti69]

Where are the insults, disguised or otherwise? Are you seriously suggesting there are NO biases?

We've done this conversation to death, B.

"They all always did it. They all still do it. They all always will do it. Except Greg Lemond" is not a statement of fact, but an expression of religious faith.

And I've no interest in, and no time for, treating religious incantations like they are reasoned arguments to be taken seriously, sorry. I might as well debate the Magnificat - nonsense.

Sorry you believe in a cleanER sport. But that needs a suspension of logic. Congratulations.