Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

This was added recently I believe so wouldn't have been in play at the end of last year.

Correct as they are building a steroid passport as well. But blood and urine are effectively two separate passport programs.

 

[coinneach]

This was added recently I believe so wouldn't have been in play at the end of last year.

Well, its dated 09-02-2011 so I think you are wrong

 

[coinneach]

Correct as they are building a steroid passport as well. But blood and urine are effectively two separate passport programs.

Well this is what the UCI say
"The passport for each rider contains:

• results of individual urine tests,
• results of individual blood tests,
• a haematological profile consisting of the combined results of haematological parameters analysed in a series of blood samples,
• a steroid profile consisting of the combined results of steroid levels in a series of urine samples. "

Has it been said anywhere definitive that the JTL case is solely based on blood tests?

 

[Cyivel]

Well, its dated 09-02-2011 so I think you are wrong

My apologies

 

[thehog]

Well this is what the UCI say
"The passport for each rider contains:

• results of individual urine tests,
• results of individual blood tests,
• a haematological profile consisting of the combined results of haematological parameters analysed in a series of blood samples,
• a steroid profile consisting of the combined results of steroid levels in a series of urine samples. "

Has it been said anywhere definitive that the JTL case is solely based on blood tests?

Read this. Once done come back to me.

Also when you work out how to measure low recs in urine apply for the Nobel prize in medicine.


http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...bjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NjA2NzM&LangId=1

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It's retics, Hog, not recs.


I have the 2012 RTP rider list from the UCI website. Anyone know why JTL's name appears in that list?

UCI RTP List / Liste 2012

TIERNAN-LOCKE JONATHAN GBR19841226

 

[thehog]

It's retics, Hog, not recs.


I have the 2012 RTP rider list from the UCI website. Anyone know why JTL's name appears in that list?

UCI RTP List / Liste 2012

TIERNAN-LOCKE JONATHAN GBR19841226

Because everyone from u23 up is on that list. It's the testing pool but not for passport.

Passport is ProCont up. It's set out in the criteria on the same page.

As for 'recs. Ever tried posting here from an iPhone carrying 4 pints across a crowded bar?

 

[Benotti69]

Because everyone from u23 up is on that list. It's the testing pool but not for passport.

Passport is ProCont up. It's set out in the criteria on the same page.

As for 'recs. Ever tried posting here from an iPhone carrying 4 pints across a crowded bar?

you need an iPad to put the pints on while posting

 

[JRanton]

Yes they do. With the exception of the health tests I believe. But I'll be corrected on that one.

In reference to JTL because he was a Conti rider and not part of the passport he wouldn't have been tested for the bio. There's no chance unless he was in a UCI sanctioned race which conducted the testing. Which is the WCs. Outside of this I can't see where else he would have been tested for the passport.

Yeah, given what Smith has said about the Tour of Britain testing it does seem very likely that the low reticulocyte value that is being referred to was from a test taken either just before or at the Worlds (there were seven days between the end of the Tour of Britain and the Worlds road race).

I remember some quotes from JTL just before the Worlds when he spoke about doing some ''specific long training rides'' (after the Tour of Britain) at home in the UK in order to prepare for the much longer distance of the Worlds road race, which was 60km-70km further than he'd ever raced before. I guess he probably topped himself up with EPO after Britain to give him a boost for the worlds.

It does beg the question why the Tour of Britain winner wasn't blood tested.

 

[Ferminal]

It's retics, Hog, not recs.


I have the 2012 RTP rider list from the UCI website. Anyone know why JTL's name appears in that list?

UCI RTP List / Liste 2012

TIERNAN-LOCKE JONATHAN GBR19841226

Couldn't find that anywhere yesterday.

Probably because he was OK in 2011. It's all Pros plus reasonable Conti riders (maybe top100 or so). Doesn't mean he would have done heaps of OoC blood tests, as if I read correctly there were only 40 of them on non-pros during the year.

And yes... Urine has nothing to do with a violation based on blood values (beyond the point where dodgy urine may result in target testing).

Ok maybe JTL got done for a steroid profile!

 

[JRanton]

This is similar to my theory.

It had occured to me that Andy schleck and Chris froome are almost exactly the same age (froome is actually older by about a month)
I also realized that Froomes transformation from gruppeto to gt winner occured at exactly the same time that Andy had his last remotely credible performance. (July 2011 for Andy and a month later froome is owning the vuelta)

There are also clear similarities in their difficulties in rain and on descents, they have the same height, the same weak tt positions and unattractive pedaling style. The only difference is tts but Andy was improving in those.

It seems to me the same person who won on galibier and tourmalet is still winning - on ventoux, ax3, albeit now in the body of Chris froome and Chris froome continues to suck but as Andy schleck. Frank's positive was a warning- this is what happens if you speak out.

Love this Hitch.

 

[thehog]

Yeah, given what Smith has said about the Tour of Britain testing it does seem very likely that the low reticulocyte value that is being referred to was from a test taken either just before or at the Worlds (there were seven days between the end of the Tour of Britain and the Worlds road race).

I remember some quotes from JTL just before the Worlds when he spoke about doing some ''specific long training rides'' (after the Tour of Britain) at home in the UK in order to prepare for the much longer distance of the Worlds road race, which was 60km-70km further than he'd ever raced before. I guess he probably topped himself up with EPO after Britain to give him a boost for the worlds.

It does beg the question why the Tour of Britain winner wasn't blood tested.

Yes a top up for the Worlds is most likely. He rode well in a race that distance wise should have been beyond him.

If his crit is high with a low rectics then it will be very hard to explain it as anything else but doping.

Who knows he may have been clean for the Worlds and AICAR at Sky made him anaemic!

 

[SundayRider]

Although this article is about Chris Horner it gives a good guide as to how the bio passport works, or how it should work. http://bikerackheads.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/analysis-of-chris-horners-biological.html

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Although this article is about Chris Horner it gives a good guide as to how the bio passport works, or how it should work. http://bikerackheads.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/analysis-of-chris-horners-biological.html

lolololololololololololololololololololololololol

Following the post-Vuelta-win scrutiny, Chris Horner, to his credit, released his SRM data from stage 18. Ghisalberti's estimate (437 Watts), as I argued, was inaccurate. He'd inflated Horner's output by about 12 Watts.

So Ghisalberti guesstimated to within 3%, but apparently that's inaccurate. Unlike the SRM in use, which has a claimed accuracy of ... +/- 1%, despite measuring the force directly.

No offense, but the author needs to take a step back and get off his soapbox.

el oh el.

 

[buckle]

bye bye wiggo

I interpret this saga as the UCI telling wiggo to take his knighthood and go away please i.e. nobody finds this funny any more accept you. Froome remains a problem however and even DB must be wondering what to do next with his African mediocrity. There is no obvious 'out' other than a reoccurrence of his blood disorder.

 

[gooner]

Just read Walsh's article in the ST today.

He said the suspicious test was on 22 September. 3 experts flagged it up. Blood tests were taken in the next 5 months and the baseline records were noted. They then seen a case to be answered for.

JTL is saying he was drinking heaviliy the day before which might explain the low retics.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Just read Walsh's article in the ST today.

He said the suspicious test was on 22 September. 3 experts flagged it up. Blood tests were taken in the next 5 months and the baseline records were noted. They then seen a case to be answered for.

JTL is saying he was drinking heaviliy the day before which might explain the low retics.

Good thing the boy only managed 19th at the World RR on Sept 23 @+5s. I mean we could have drunken Pros all over the place preparing for top races if he was any closer to the podium.

See you in 2 years, JTL.

 

[gooner]

Good thing the boy only managed 19th at the World RR on Sept 23 @+5s. I mean we could have drunken Pros all over the place preparing for top races if he was any closer to the podium.

See you in 2 years, JTL.

Walsh doesn't buy the excuse either it seems, he said if he was feeling unwell from it all like JTL said he was, it would have shown also in his haemoglobin and potassium values.

Just to add, he wasn't tested for the passport after February and the letter wasn't sent out for another 5 months after.

That means he would have ridden Pais Vasco and LBL with this already known.

 

[SundayRider]

Walsh doesn't buy the excuse either it seems, he said if he was feeling unwell from it all like JTL said he was, it would have shown also in his haemoglobin and potassium values.

Just to add, he wasn't tested for the passport after February and the letter wasn't sent out for another 5 months after.

That means he would have ridden Pais Vasco and LBL with this already known.

Why was he not tested for the passport after Feb?

 

[Biggut]

Am I missing something.

Rider fails passport for dubious figures in September. Team principal who knowingly kept quiet about doping he'd seen ad a rider says it must be under Sky. Yet he says that they handed him over for the last quarter of 2012. For those that can't do maths that is October, November and December.

Sky tested AFTER the value that has triggerred the issue, but supposedly that makes them to blame for doping prior to joining them.

Smith's comments do not add up.

 

[gooner]

Why was he not tested for the passport after Feb?

They had enough ammo on him.

When further blood tests were taken over the next five months and Tiernan-Locke's baseline values were recorded, the UCI experts believed they has enough data to proceed with the case. The rider was not tested for biological purposes after February, though the letter that initiated the case against him would not be sent for a further five months.

Smith said he was never blood tested at the Tour of Britain and would have to be after that period. This fits in with that, the day before the worlds.

Do people honestly believe BC/Sky wanted him to dope for the worlds and then rein him back in the period after when he was officially under contract with Sky?

 

[Benotti69]

Do people honestly believe BC/Sky wanted him to dope for the worlds and then rein him back in the period after when he was officially under contract with Sky?

So why couldn't Sky put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4 about JTL?

Sky dont get off the hook. He was with Team GB(aka Sky) for what a week or 2 prior to WC never mind being in Tenerife with them.

 

[roundabout]

one on hand he may have allegedly blood doped right under BC noses, on the other hand it seems that it was not sophisticated enough so he was charged relatively quickly

 

[gooner]

So why couldn't Sky put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4 about JTL?

Sky dont get off the hook.

Of course and the l'Equipe article is the obvious one.

He was with Team GB(aka Sky) for what a week or 2 prior to WC never mind being in Tenerife with them.

They didn't know about all this at the time. The suspicious test is out of line it seems with later ones when he was officially at Sky.

If Cummings, Fenn or Cav get popped in and around the worlds, will we blame Sky there as well?

 

[manafana]

some of the conspiracy's here would make you cringe, I am a fan of Smith and hope his words don't bite him in the *** as hes been good for the sport. If JTL did anything its likely micro dosing EPO, but their is a number of supplements he could have taken under his own guidance that altered his values. Not good times for him anyway especially with sky putting him to the dogs.