Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

With that sort of performance I'm seeing I'm almost certain he would have been up there in Liege. Top 20 at least, without bad luck.

Anyway

"I came really focused to this Vuelta a Murcia," Quintana said at the finish.

"I knew that, despite the last descent, this was a stage suiting me really well, and that's why I rode really concentrated to my objective. The team left me in perfect position before the climb, Tiernan-Locke attacked really hard at the foot and I went for him. He pushed hard all climb and tried to drop me like he did in Haut Var, but I stood his pace and made my attack with 1.5k from the summit."

Really not bad.

Sure. And that was 2012 Quintana. Not 2013 Froome Quintana.

And again. Did you see the climb? It's not Ventoux. It was rolling with descents. It's not like JTL smashed him to the ground on d'Huez.

Watch the video I posted and you'll see what I mean.

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WORav-xR5KU&sns=em

It's like a Gran Fondo! :

 

[Mellow Velo]

@Hog, btw, I haven't been following this thread for so long, so it would be great if you could outline your exact position on JTL in a few words, or if you have done that before in this thread name me the respective page, thanks in advance!

Winning those early season 2.1 races and contesting the Murcia GC with Nairo Quintana, while at Endura reflects the normal progression for a guy who won a few amateur podiums, while at a bottom division French team.

Winning another, later season 2.1 event and finishing behind such notables Allan Davies, Koen de Kort and Assan Bazayev, in the World Champs RR, while with British Cycling/Sky, is a huge jump in performance from these earlier results and therefore must be when he started to dope, causing his passport anomalies.

His appalling 2013 season, somehow backs this theory up.

 

[kingjr]

Sure. And that was 2012 Quintana. Not 2013 Froome Quintana.

2012 Quintana who won in Morzine at the Dauphine in front of Evans, Wiggins, Froome, Porte...

Who came in 11th at the Lombardia

Who won the Giro dell'Emilia beating Pellizotti and Pozzovivo

Not bad, that.



And in case you missed it:

@Hog, btw, I haven't been following this thread for so long, so it would be great if you could outline your exact position on JTL in a few words, or if you have done that before in this thread name me the respective page, thanks in advance!

If you don't want to that's fine, just say so.

 

[kingjr]

Sure. And that was 2012 Quintana. Not 2013 Froome Quintana.

2012 Quintana who won in Morzine at the Dauphine in front of Evans, Wiggins, Froome, Porte...

Who came in 11th at the Lombardia

Who won the Giro dell'Emilia beating Pellizotti and Pozzovivo

Not bad, that.



And in case you missed it:

@Hog, btw, I haven't been following this thread for so long, so it would be great if you could outline your exact position on JTL in a few words, or if you have done that before in this thread name me the respective page, thanks in advance!

If you don't want to that's fine, just say so.

 

[pmcg76]

That's just stupid. Because you've made up the criteria and said this is "binary". What you're saying is "it can only be this way"; which is very poor reasoning.

I guess the question to ask you is; what is the correct way for natural progression?

I've shown his progression through the junior ranks, sickness and then the slow build back from 2008 to his 2012 results.

The races he won in 2012 he was also fortunate with weather, shorten stages and the were all in jan/feb/March.

After that he trained with Sky was injured and then came back to win ToB and perform very well at WC.

But seriously the fact that he won a 77km stage where Mont Faron was cut from the stage is obvious. Steve Cummings won in 2014 with Mont Faron included. Does that tell you something?

I didn't make up the criteria, natural progression is natural progression. You are the one cliaming natural progression. Cyclists making sudden jumps in performance is not natural progression.

Froome is not natural progression because he went from low ranking PT rider to winning GTs.

JTL is not natural progression because he went from average continetal rider to winning 2.1 races.

The levels might be different but the sudden jumps are not all the different.

How to explain getting beat by Ki Ho Choi or riding domestique for Kristian House to duelling with Naira Quintana in less than a year.

You are struggling now and trying to deflect as you cannot find another rider who improved as sudden like JTL. I think Gilbert put it best, getting beat by somebody you have never even heard off says it all really.

 

[thehog]

2012 Quintana who won in Morzine at the Dauphine in front of Evans, Wiggins, Froome, Porte...

Who came in 11th at the Lombardia

Who won the Giro dell'Emilia beating Pellizotti and Pozzovivo

Not bad, that.



And in case you missed it:

If you don't want to that's fine, just say so.

Yes that Quintana. Below is Quintana's results from 2011.

JTL's jump was nothing like him. But sounds like both were progressing. Quintana much much faster, yes?

So JTL is doping here but not Quintana? Or both just having a breakout point in their career?

 

[kingjr]

If we go back one more year then we see he won the Tour d'Avenir at 20 years of age leaving behind Talansky, Slagter, Landa, Bardet and Kelderman. Impressive stuff. Seems like a real talent this guy.

 

[pmcg76]

2012 Quintana who won in Morzine at the Dauphine in front of Evans, Wiggins, Froome, Porte...

Who came in 11th at the Lombardia

Who won the Giro dell'Emilia beating Pellizotti and Pozzovivo

Not bad, that.



And in case you missed it:



If you don't want to that's fine, just say so.

Hog's position is as it always is "trolling".

What he is claiming however is that JTL jumping from average continental rider to suddenly winning 2.1 races was not down to doping and that he only started doping when he hooked up with SKY and won another small race "Alsace", another 2.1 race ToB and rode the Worlds.

In case you failed to notice, the ToB is a much bigger race than those he won earlier in the season, he beat big name rides like Haas, Caruso, Howard, Chris Jones etc, guys who are way better than Quintana, Garzelli, Navarro, Poels etc.

 

[thehog]

If we go back one more year then we see he won the Tour d'Avenir at 20 years of age leaving behind Talansky, Slagter, Landa, Bardet and Kelderman. Impressive stuff. Seems like a real talent this guy.

Looks to be that way.

Quintana's progression sound similar to another guy I know who won a race in France when he was young.

If only he didn't get sick.... must have been the blood bags he was taking age 18

When Locke began road racing in 2003 at age 18, after a couple of seasons as a mountain biker, he moved from fourth to first category status in just a few months. Seeing the teenager?s talent, Lewis found him a spot on the French amateur team, U.V. Aube, in 2004. Locke did so well there that, only 18 months into his road career, he was selected for the British under-23 team for that year?s road worlds in Verona, Italy. In 2005, he moved to a nationally ranked French team, CC ?tupes, and established his credentials immediately by finishing on the podium in all of his first 10 races, including a win at the GP de Rocheville, near Cannes, on the C?te d?Azur.

 

[Benotti69]

Hog's position is as it always is "trolling".

What he is claiming however is that JTL jumping from average continental rider to suddenly winning 2.1 races was not down to doping and that he only started doping when he hooked up with SKY and won another small race "Alsace", another 2.1 race ToB and rode the Worlds.

In case you failed to notice, the ToB is a much bigger race than those he won earlier in the season, he beat big name rides like Haas, Caruso, Howard, Chris Jones etc, guys who are way better than Quintana, Garzelli, Navarro, Poels etc.

Defending Sky.....quelle surprise.

Yeah Garzelli was what 39.

Amazing how many people dont want to see the fire that all this smoke eminating from Sky looks exactly like the fires that we have seen before.......incredible.

 

[thehog]

Hog's position is as it always is "trolling".

Always a tell tail sign of someone who's lost all sense of their own argument accuses the other of trolling.

Stick to the facts, please.

 

[thehog]

Defending Sky.....quelle surprise.

Yeah Garzelli was what 39.

Amazing how many people dont want to see the fire that all this smoke eminating from Sky looks exactly like the fires that we have seen before.......incredible.

Yes Mercerto-Uno - Vini Fantini, old man Garzelli who failed to show a result since he was caught up in doping is now the barometer of JTL killing the best of the best.

 

[kingjr]

Looks to be that way.

Quintana's progression sound similar to another guy I know who won a race in France when he was young.

No, it doesn't sound similar at all. Who was he riding against when he finished these races on the podium?

 

[DirtyWorks]

No, it doesn't sound similar at all. Who was he riding against when he finished these races on the podium?

If only there was some way to read about Quintana's lower-ranked racing results.

Nah... Why let facts get in the way?

 

[pmcg76]

Defending Sky.....quelle surprise.

Yeah Garzelli was what 39.

Amazing how many people dont want to see the fire that all this smoke eminating from Sky looks exactly like the fires that we have seen before.......incredible.

Defending SKY??? Clueless as usual.

Clearly you missed my post saying that JTLs progression is as un-natural as Froome or Wiggins if you want. I don't care.

Maybe SKY did dope JTL but he was clearly doping before he got to SKY, there was no sudden jump when he got with SKY. I said it at the time and my stance has been consistent all along, his sudden transformation in Spring 2012 was unbelievable.

I know you are on record as saying that JTL doping for those races was plainly obvious so you have the same opinion but somehow I am defending SKY

 

[pmcg76]

Always a tell tail sign of someone who's lost all sense of their own argument accuses the other of trolling.

Stick to the facts, please.

My facts are spot on as always, I am still waiting for other transformations a la JTL. Still not answered. Should be easy right.

 

[kingjr]

If only there was some way to read about Quintana's lower-ranked racing results.

Nah... Why let facts get in the way?

What facts are you talking about now?

 

[Ventoux Boar]

JTL's serene progression through the pro ranks bears an uncanny resemblance to the emergence of the young Quintana. It was only halted by his introduction to Sky's doping program...

Am I understanding the notion correctly? Is everybody as dumb as thehog, wherever he comes from?

 

[kingjr]

Yes Mercerto-Uno - Vini Fantini, old man Garzelli who failed to show a result since he was caught up in doping is now the barometer of JTL killing the best of the best.

At the age of 36 he won the MTT to Kronplatz in the Giro d'Italia. Not too bad.

 

[thehog]

If only there was some way to read about Quintana's lower-ranked racing results.

Nah... Why let facts get in the way?

Quintana beat giant killer Talansky at age 20 so the writing was on the wall for later successes

So apparently that's a huge scalp and showed he was going to be a Froome-like climber.

JTL beating random French guy El Fares means doping.... until he joined a sky when they made him stop.

 

[pmcg76]

Looks to be that way.

Quintana's progression sound similar to another guy I know who won a race in France when he was young.

If only he didn't get sick.... must have been the blood bags he was taking age 18

Are you serioulsy comapring a win in a small French Race with a guy winning the Tour de L'Avenir, this just gets funnier and funnier. Hilarious.

 

[thehog]

My facts are spot on as always, I am still waiting for other transformations a la JTL. Still not answered. Should be easy right.

That's your criteria. Which is binary. You think by throwing it out there it means JTL is the one and only rider ever to demonstrates results like he did.

I just published Quintana from 2011 to 2012.

Looks like ridiculous progression. But of course it doesn't fit your criteria. So of course you can see how stupidly formed you've made it. It's includes just about.... ummmm no one.

Slick..

 

[thehog]

Are you serioulsy comapring a win in a small French Race with a guy winning the Tour de L'Avenir, this just gets funnier and funnier. Hilarious.

Are you not allowed to win races when your 18?

Is that not allowed?

Sorry didn't realise.

 

[kingjr]

Quintana beat giant killer Talansky at age 20 so the writing was on the wall for later successes

You forgot some names there. And yes, that result can be a good indicator of the potential a rider has.

 

[thehog]

You forgot some names there. And yes, that result can be a good indicator of the potential a rider has.

I don't disagree. And Quintana certainly has progressed well and very quickly.

JTL has good juniors results before becoming sick. He came back and won a 2.1 race in January and apparently for some that equals the end of cycling.

But Quintana, you know. Nothing to see there

I jest but you get the point.