Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

Brilliant. Quod erat demonstratum.

That would be "dum" and not "tum; QED.

Do you think the guy who came 2nd at Haut Var is doping as well.

Look at his 2009! 500 points from nowhere like JTL and then a dip as he progresses into ProTour and down again.

 

[kingjr]

That would be "dum" and not "tum; QED.
[/IMG]

Actually it would be "ndum".

 

[thehog]

That would be "dum" and not "tum; QED.

Do you think the guy who came 2nd at Haut Var is doping as well.

Look at his 2009! 500 points from nowhere like JTL and then a dip as he progresses into ProTour and down again.

That CQ ranking stuff is cool. Simon Clarke did well at HV in 2012.

Look at his graph... out of nowhere?

What about Quintana?

Appears all up and coming riders graphs look the same, no?

What about Froomey?

 

[roundabout]

Apart from El Fares none of them have have a near zero point season unlike jtl on the sky dope.

 

[thehog]

Apart from El Fares none of them have have a near zero point season unlike jtl on the sky dope.

True. But Froome wasn't even stepping up from ProCont. He came from ProTour very poor results to GT killer in one easy step and kept on going.

That story is more believable because...?

El Fares looks about right. Which is the guy JTL beat. El Fares is barn storming on the French provincial circuit! And somehow JTL is doper for beating a guy like that because....?

Quintana is the same. Reasonable results and then steps up to being GT killer like Froome. Believable because.....?

But of course lets not believe the guy who was a very strong U/23 rider and wins 3 - 2.1 races in Feb/early March! and he slowly progressed back after illness. 2008 to 2012 is 3 years. Froome from illness turned himself around in 3 weeks from Romandie to Vuelta!

 

[roundabout]

As stated when he rode Copi in March when the season hotted up in 2012, JTL was dropped.

.

Lol.

You mean the race where the giants* of the road Huzarski and Barta finished 1-2.

*And I do like both guys, but they are far from superstars

 

[Mellow Velo]

That CQ ranking stuff is cool. Simon Clarke did well at HV in 2012.

Look at his graph... out of nowhere?

What about Quintana?

Appears all up and coming riders graphs look the same, no?

What about Froomey?

Not as cool as using junior/amateur race results as proof of progression, while at the same time dismissing 2.1 race results for being weak and meaningless.

NOTA look like this:

Like a dead man given one shot of the paddles.

 

[thehog]

Not as cool as using junior/amateur race results as proof of progression, while at the same time dismissing 2.1 race results for being weak and meaningless.


Like a dead man given one shot of the paddles.

I've not dismissed them as weak or meaningless. They are what they are. But they are not Amstel. And its certainly not the Vuelta.

CQRankings are full of guys scoring 500 points as they hit the scene. None of them even get a mention.

Junior race are a very good indication of talent. Unlike the Atomic Jock races.

Many good riders today had good junior careers. You know that. We all know that. Tour winners don't find themselves at 27 without previous results.

JTL had shown at 18 he had something; or do you think he was on EPO and bloodbags back then? LOL!

Come on. Seriously?

 

[kingjr]

JTL had shown at 18 he had something; or do you think he was on EPO and bloodbags back then? LOL!

Come on. Seriously?

It's all speculation of course but why not? I mean EPO is the drug for cycling, why not try it out.

 

[thehog]

It's all speculation of course but why not? I mean EPO is the drug for cycling, why not try it out.

Yes it is speculation. Just like how he stopped doping when he joined Sky

Appears in 2013 things changed under Sky. His training and his peak.

Tiernan-Locke, known as ?JTL,? is easing into his first full season at the top level of the sport. After racing two years with Rapha Condor-Sharp before joining Brian Smith?s Endura Racing in 2012, he knew racing at the WorldTour calendar would be another level.

Flash forward one year, and everything?s changed. Team Sky is the world?s best team, bringing a depth of coaching, knowledge and tools to help him go further than he had ever dreamed.

After debuting discreetly at Mallorca Challenge and the Algarve tour, his first test comes next week at Paris-Nice.

?I?ve been working on volume of training. Last year, I was doing more intense stuff, because I had maybe 50 days of racing,? he said. ?This year, I?ve been building to go longer distances.?

Tiernan-Locke has a quality schedule with Team Sky. After Paris-Nice, he?ll be heading to Crit?rium International and then the Ardennes.

The short, punchy climbs of the Belgian hills are ideal for his racing style. At 5-foot-8 with tree-trunk legs, he?s built for short, intense efforts and he?s hoping to post some solid results in his debut in the Ardennes at the end of April.

?Paris-Nice is an important race and we?ll see what I can do,? he said. ?Rather than peak as I did last year early, I want to hit my peak in April. The Ardennes is the first real goal.?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...o-grow-on-team-sky_276575#Mw7lTZSemdkkqo7Z.99

 

[pmcg76]

I've not dismissed them as weak or meaningless. They are what they are. But they are not Amstel. And its certainly not the Vuelta.

CQRankings are full of guys scoring 500 points as they hit the scene. None of them even get a mention.

Junior race are a very good indication of talent. Unlike the Atomic Jock races.

Many good riders today had good junior careers. You know that. We all know that. Tour winners don't find themselves at 27 without previous results.

JTL had shown at 18 he had something; or do you think he was on EPO and bloodbags back then? LOL!

Come on. Seriously?

Do you have any idea of how many guys in France who had better results than JTL and never made it as a pro.

You have been busy googling your **** off with your 10 podium finishes but don't even know they were in Div 2 races in France. In his first year in France, JTL rode for VC Aube who were a 2nd division amateur team. There is a system in France akin to pro cycling with Div 1/2 racing.

The big amateur events in France are the Coupe de France/Mavic Cup series and Ronde de L'isard stage race and reserved to Div 1 teams. JTL never even rode in either because he got sick before he had the opportunity to do so. He won the amateur version of Haut Var which is akin in importance to the pro event in the grand scheme of things as an early season event.

JTL showed promise but never rode at the top level as an amateur in France so it's hard to say how much talent he had but suffice to say every French rider who has ever turned pro had results much better than JTL. Also riding for Britain at that time was hardly amazing stuff either as they were pretty weak back then.

I pointed this out to his defenders at the time who were trying to claim he was some super talent. He was promising but no more promising than about 50-100 French amateurs of the same period, none of whom have gone on to put together the results JTL did in early 2012

 

[thehog]

Do you have any idea of how many guys in France who had better results than JTL and never made it as a pro.

You have been busy googling your **** off with your 10 podium finishes but don't even know they were in Div 2 races in France. In his first year in France, JTL rode for VC Aube who were a 2nd division amateur team. There is a system in France akin to pro cycling with Div 1/2 racing.

The big amateur events in France are the Coupe de France/Mavic Cup series and Ronde de L'isard stage race and reserved to Div 1 teams. JTL never even rode in either because he got sick before he had the opportunity to do so. He won the amateur version of Haut Var which is akin in importance to the pro event in the grand scheme of things as an early season event.

JTL showed promise but never rode at the top level as an amateur in France so it's hard to say how much talent he had but suffice to say every French rider who has ever turned pro had results much better than JTL. Also riding for Britain at that time was hardly amazing stuff either as they were pretty weak back then.

I pointed this out to his defenders at the time who were trying to claim he was some super talent. He was promising but no more promising than about 50-100 French amateurs of the same period, none of whom have gone on to put together the results JTL did in early 2012

I agree with you 100%.

At that is the point. So many bots were saying he was the next Tour champion. He never was and JTL himself kept trying to remind people of what his talents were.

They all got carried away so when he finally went down on the infraction they new story became he was doping with Endura and stopped at Sky.

To me his early talent and successes in Jan/Feb 2012 is about what he is as a rider. He peaked for those races and they were 1 to 2 day races at 150km. One of the races was reduced to 77km!

Expecting hm to be Froome at Sky in Paris-Nice in 220km stages was never going to happen. As did with a lot of those French riders.

But Bots will be Bots.

 

[pmcg76]

I agree with you 100%.

At that is the point. So many bots were saying he was the next Tour champion. He never was and JTL himself kept trying to remind people of what his talents were.

They all got carried away so when he finally went down on the infraction they new story became he was doping with Endura and stopped at Sky.

To me his early talent and successes in Jan/Feb 2012 is about what he is as a rider. He peaked for those races and they were 1 to 2 day races at 150km. One of the races was reduced to 77km!

Expecting hm to be Froome at Sky in Paris-Nice in 220km stages was never going to happen. As did with a lot of those French riders.

But Bots will be Bots.

So why then are you quoting his amateur results as proof of his talent.
What French riders have won Tour of the Med and Haut Var back to back followed by 2nd in Murcia?

What other continental level riders have then jumped to winning 2.1 races for fun in the space of months ahead of PT teams.

There was a Lithiunian guy Bagdonas who rode for the Sean Kelly continental team a few years back and he put together a far more impressive series of results than JTL at the same level which snagged him a PT contract with AG2R. Did he move up and start winning 2.1 races for fun? No back to low level obscurity. Moving from decent Continetal level rider to winning 2.1 races for fun is not a nautal progression in anyone's books.

 

[thehog]

So why then are you quoting his amateur results as proof of his talent.
What French riders have won Tour of the Med and Haut Var back to back followed by 2nd in Murcia?

What other continental level riders have then jumped to winning 2.1 races for fun in the space of months ahead of PT teams.

There was a Lithiunian guy Bagdonas who rode for the Sean Kelly continental team a few years back and he put together a far more impressive series of results than JTL at the same level which snagged him a PT contract with AG2R. Did he move up and start winning 2.1 races for fun? No back to low level obscurity. Moving from decent Continetal level rider to winning 2.1 races for fun is not a nautal progression in anyone's books.

I quote the junior races to show that 2012 he didn't go from serving fries at McDonalds to winning those races. He was a talented junior who got sick and went off to complete his degree. He started cycling again and slowly built himself up towards 2012. It wasn't a "burst" and nothing before. I look at the build from 2008 to 2012 and I see a progression.

Look at commentary from Var:

Tiernan-Locke used his prowess as a climber to secure the stage win at the main expense of Julien El Fares (Team Type 1) and Julian Simon (Saur-Sojasun), who filled the podium places.

I mean seriously who here has ever heard of El Fares or Simon? No one. That's who he beat to win that race. It was a two day race early season in the freezing cold. The climb was 2km! not 21km.

It was impressive win but for a team like Endura thats the type of race they aim to win. That's their ProTour race.

Endura went on to win the TTT at Copi in March. In the longer road stages JTL was dropped.

As I keep saying JTL wasn't winning Amstel. He won a very early season low level race against French guys who are not household names.

Thats all he did. Again Bot-logic ran away with it as the next Tour champion.

His best result by far was the WC. That was a impressive ride against very good competition who all wanted to win. I can't help that this is the same time his doping infraction occurred. I didn't ask him to train and prepare with Sky/Kerrison. But he did and performed out of his skin. That's a Brailsford problem not a theHog problem.

 

[pmcg76]

I quote the junior races to show that 2012 he didn't go from serving fries at McDonalds to winning those races. He was a talented junior who got sick and went off to complete his degree. He started cycling again and slowly built himself up towards 2012. It wasn't a "burst" and nothing before. I look at the build from 2008 to 2012 and I see a progression.

Look at commentary from Var:



I mean seriously who here has ever heard of El Fares or Simon? No one. That's who he beat to win that race. It was a two day race early season in the freezing cold. The climb was 2km! not 21km.

It was impressive win but for a team like Endura thats the type of race they aim to win. That's their ProTour race.

Endura went on to win the TTT at Copi in March. In the longer road stages JTL was dropped.

As I keep saying JTL wasn't winning Amstel. He won a very early season low level race against French guys who are not household names.

Thats all he did. Again Bot-logic ran away with it as the next Tour champion.

His best result by far was the WC. That was a impressive ride against very good competition who all wanted to win. I can't help that this is the same time his doping infraction occurred. I didn't ask him to train and prepare with Sky/Kerrison. But he did and performed out of his skin. That's a Brailsford problem not a theHog problem.

Quintana is not a low level French rider. Neither is Garzelli, Sanchez, Gesink, Poels. Oh they didn't care about those races but obvioulsy they did a bit as they didn't get beaten by a whole host of riders who had been continental level the season before. Only one guy was doing that.

A continetal level rider suddenly winning 2.1 races for fun is pas normal any time of year and regardless of opposition.

As I said before, you find me another rider who made the same jump as JTL and I will concede the point, good luck with that. I won't be waiting with baited breath.

BTW, El Fares had a stage win at Tirreno-Adriatico and a couple of finishes in the Tour de France ( 25th overall) to his name before then. That is a lot more than 4th at the Tour of Korea and 2nd in the amateur Vuelta A Leon.

 

[thehog]

BTW, El Fares had a stage win at Tirreno-Adriatico and a couple of finishes in the Tour de France ( 25th overall) to his name before then. That is a lot more than 4th at the Tour of Korea and 2nd in the amateur Vuelta A Leon.

That he did. He also didn't have three years out of the sport whist completing a degree. If JTL progressed on from the U/23 Worlds who knows what would have occurred. His time in France he had a lot of teams who wanted to bring him on. He could have been Simon Gerrans on AG2R.

El Fares has been a journey man all his life. Froome rode the Tour and the Giro with fairly much if not worse results than El Fares.

So your point is rather silly.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Teflon hog

Bot, bot, bot.......Bot logic? Where does this fit into the debate?
A few fish around, so drop some bait into the water and see if any bite.

Julien Simon unheard of? From that same 2012 season:

Here, he is beating some nobody's in a nothing race:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/grand-prix-de-wallonie-2012/results

Same year:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-du-finistre-2012/results

A month later:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/grand-prix-de-plumelec-morbihan-2012/results

Now, WT racing, still in the JTL super year.
Here's one....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/volta-a-catalunya-2012/stage-5/results

Two days later and here's another.....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/volta-a-catalunya-2012/stage-7/results


Just five days ago, he won the GP Plumelec-Morbihan.

Unheard of.
No wonder even Sky sceptics find your efforts embarrassing.

 

[kingjr]

I mean seriously who here has ever heard of El Fares or Simon?

The vast majority of this forum I dare say.

 

[thehog]

Bot, bot, bot.......Bot logic? Where does this fit into the debate?
A few fish around, so drop some bait into the water and see if any bite.

Julien Simon unheard of? From that same 2012 season:

Here, he is beating some nobody's in a nothing race:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/grand-prix-de-wallonie-2012/results

Same year:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-du-finistre-2012/results

A month later:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/grand-prix-de-plumelec-morbihan-2012/results

Now, WT racing, still in the JTL super year.
Here's one....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/volta-a-catalunya-2012/stage-5/results

Two days later and here's another.....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/volta-a-catalunya-2012/stage-7/results


Just five days ago, he won the GP Plumelec-Morbihan.

Unheard of.
No wonder even Sky sceptics find your efforts embarrassing.

So you can show me a post on this forum in regards to Simon? In the PRR thread?

If I never mentioned him would you have ever taken the time to look up who he was?

I know the answer and so do you.

Bot-logic indeed.

 

[kingjr]

So you can show me a post on this forum in regards to Simon? In the PRR thread?

If I never mentioned him would you have ever taken the time to look up who he was?

I know the answer and so do you.

Bot-logic indeed.

Look on the stage thread for the Tour de France last year for the stage that Trentin won.

Edit: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=21131

 

[jens_attacks]

hoggie pls stop.
grande JTL's spring of 2012 comes right behind chernobyl and fukushima. comme une bombe!
damn i miss him, i might watch these days haut-var again. it was fabulous! _O_
hope he comes back in the peloton

 

[Mellow Velo]

Hoggie's Movable Goal Posts

Look on the stage thread for the Tour de France last year for the stage that Trentin won.

He rode a terrific stage that day. A great attack and so, so close to holding them all off ftw.
Had a very good Tour overall, getting into the mix in several of the early finishes.
3 of those stages I posted up above were covered live. All were very impressive wins.
I know, since I saw them, along with half the PRR forum.

So yes, I know the answer very well.
Hogwash indeed.

 

[thehog]

Look on the stage thread for the Tour de France last year for the stage that Trentin won.

Edit: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=21131

What am I looking for?

There's 20+ pages.

Quote me something at least, please.

Waiting....

 

[kingjr]

What am I looking for?

There's 20+ pages.

Quote me something at least, please.

Waiting....

Between page 28-33 you will find him mentioned lots of times. Which is already more than enough.

 

[thehog]

He rode a terrific stage that day. A great attack and so, so close to holding them all off ftw.
Had a very good Tour overall, getting into the mix in several of the early finishes.
3 of those stages I posted up above were covered live. All were very impressive wins.
I know, since I saw them, along with half the PRR forum.

So yes, I know the answer very well.
Hogwash indeed.

French guy attacks in Tour stage and didn't win.... Seriously?

You mean to say a French rider attacked in the Tour de France, on a stage that didn't matter and he didn't win? Really. Not like that's never happened before.

Must be a deign for success! Lol!

And your posts on Simon in that thread are...... and you were saying he was a guy to watch out for? And detailed his talents.

Now that is Bot-Logic personified!