Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

so says the member who tried to harass me into not replying to their posts

hoggy go on rewrite history and continue to misrepresent the truth....you may not have been impressed by jtl's improved performances with endura but others were including team sky

remember those performances were the basis for joke exagerrated claims in prr as to jtl's golden future ahead

question remains was jtl doping? and who other than him knew the extent/details of that activity?

Mark L

Who said I wasn't impressed with his performances at Endura? I didn't. They were good results in 2.1 races against lesser competition. Most of his wins were in short races in Jan/Feb offseason for ProTour riders.

When he started to ride actual ProTour races in March 2013 he found out what real ProTour, multi-stage, longer distances races are like. Tough and much harder than Vaar or Murica. That wasn't a "dip" in form that was "stepping up" to the next level.

Most of you had no idea he won the amateur version of Vaar or rode the U23 Worlds for GB.

You're story is written that he just "appeared".

I'm not changing history, I'm telling it as it was.

His 2012 WC race with BC/Sky is by far his best and strongest result against top quality opposition all wanting to win. And strangely or coincidently that's where the doping infraction comes from.

Read into that what you will...

 

[pmcg76]

Who said I wasn't impressed with his performances at Endura? I didn't. They were good results in 2.1 races against lesser competition. Most of his wins were in short races in Jan/Feb offseason for ProTour riders.

When he started to ride actual ProTour races in March 2013 he found out what real ProTour, multi-stage, longer distances races are like. Tough and much harder than Vaar or Murica. That wasn't a "dip" in form that was "stepping up" to the next level.

Most of you had no idea he won the amateur version of Vaar or rode the U23 Worlds for GB.

You're story is written that he just "appeared".

I'm not changing history, I'm telling it as it was.

His 2012 WC race with BC/Sky is by far his best and strongest result against top quality opposition all wanting to win. And strangely or coincidently that's where the doping infraction comes from.

Read into that what you will...

Except you are changing history

Yes he won an amateur race in France. So what? Every single rider who has made it to even continental level has won amateur races and amateur cycling is riddled with riders who won plenty but never made it to the next level. JTL winning an amateur race in France is of no real significance really. As an example Jonathon Pat McCarty won the biggest amateur stage race in France, the Ronde de L'Isard around the same time. Any recollections of McCarty doing anything of significance as a pro?

What is of significance is that JTL was riding at continental level in 2010/11 and didn't put out any results that would suggest he would be the rider he became. He might not have beaten riders in PT races in 2012 but he crushed mostly PT riders in decent races that were far and above the level he had been competing at the previous 2 years. Haut-Var and Tour of the Med might not be PT races but there is as much of a gap down from them to the Tour of Korea or Vuelta A Leon as there is a step up to PT races.

JTL essentailly went from average continental rider to top Pro-continental rider capable of mixing it with top PT riders in the space of a few months. Nothing unusual there at all Care to name any other continetal level riders who have made the same sudden jump in performance?

 

[ebandit]

bad

Yes it was January, freezing cold and JTL beat some French guys called Julien. That's how devastating it was. It was a small but steep climb on some lonely roads in France and somehow it became Ventoux!

my bad............your post here and others gave the impression that you were unimpressed

no-one has suggested that those performances with endura were comparable with ventoux just an improvement on previous rides by jtl

Mark L

 

[thehog]

Except you are changing history

Yes he won an amateur race in France. So what? Every single rider who has made it to even continental level has won amateur races and amateur cycling is riddled with riders who won plenty but never made it to the next level. JTL winning an amateur race in France is of no real significance really. As an example Jonathon Pat McCarty won the biggest amateur stage race in France, the Ronde de L'Isard around the same time. Any recollections of McCarty doing anything of significance as a pro?

What is of significance is that JTL was riding at continental level in 2010/11 and didn't put out any results that would suggest he would be the rider he became. He might not have beaten riders in PT races in 2012 but he crushed mostly PT riders in decent races that were far and above the level he had been competing at the previous 2 years. Haut-Var and Tour of the Med might not be PT races but there is as much of a gap down from them to the Tour of Korea or Vuelta A Leon as there is a step up to PT races.

JTL essentailly went from average continental rider to top Pro-continental rider capable of mixing it with top PT riders in the space of a few months. Nothing unusual there at all Care to name any other continetal level riders who have made the same sudden jump in performance?

You are mistaken. His 2011 was a good indication of what was to come.

He also never crushed PT riders. Have you seen the results from Vaar? The Top 20 is a who's not who. Barely a PT rider in the list. Those who are in the standings are second stringers in PT teams.

Also he didn't just win one amateur race. He did well in several in his junior years. And his 2010 was fairly good for a UK based semi-Pro who was not in Europe.

Even after his 3 years off with sickness in 2008 he outlined his plans to be in the UK and not France again and to concentrate on cycling full time.

October 2008

Actually it’s not too cold, after all it is the end of May bank holiday Monday if you haven’t already guessed. “It is cold when you stop though,” Tiernan-Locke hints, so I stop talking and let him get on with it. He’s just back from winning the Tour of Crete, and his suntan says that he’s got used to much warmer weather than this.

We return early to the Slapton car park where Tiernan-Locke outlines his thoughts on his future and of road racing in Britain. “I’m pleased about where I am at the moment. If someone had said before this season that I’d have seven wins by the end of May, I wouldn’t have believed it possible.

“I can feel that I’ve made a big jump recently, so I’m really looking forward to the rest of this year, but I reckon that there is a lot of improvement left and after another good winter I can be better.

“I’ve put work to one side for cycling at the moment, but I don’t think I’ll be going to Europe again. I think we are getting to a point where there is the opportunity to be a pro in Britain. Cycling is definitely on the up here. We’ve got good exposure through the success of the track riders, a Tour of Britain and British road racing is getting better with some good riders and teams. It’s all looking good.”

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/rout...athan-tiernan-locke-92458#Zjz0RHW8p77Ait43.99

 

[gooner]

I only know one or two riders on this list.

Haut Var, stage 2.

Jonathan Tiernan-Locke (GBr) Endura Racing 5:23:13
2 Julien El Fares (Fra) Team Type 1 - Sanofi 0:00:01
3 Julien Simon (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:04
4 Jonathan Hivert (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:11
5 Simon Clarke (Aus) Greenedge Cycling Team 0:00:13
6 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 0:00:19
7 Fredrik Kessiakoff (Swe) Astana Pro Team
8 Maxime Bouet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
9 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Garmin - Barracuda
10 Romain Hardy (Fra) Bretagne - Schuller
11 Nairo Quintana Rojas (Col) Movistar Team 0:00:27
12 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 0:00:29
13 Daniel Martin (Irl) Garmin - Barracuda 0:00:32
14 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Team Saxo Bank
15 Rémi Pauriol (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat
16 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) BMC Racing Team
17 Cameron Meyer (Aus) Greenedge Cycling Team 0:00:37
18 Stefan Denifl (Aut) Vacansoleil-Dcm Pro Cycling Team 0:00:41
19 Laurent Mangel (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:43
20 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
21 David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:00:46
22 José Joaquín Rojas Gil (Spa) Movistar Team 0:00:49
23 Jeremie Galland (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:52
24 Dimitri Fofonov (Kaz) Astana Pro Team 0:00:58
25 Staf Scheirlinckx (Bel) Accent Jobs - Willems Veranda's 0:02:11
26 Kevin Seeldraeyers (Bel) Astana Pro Team
27 Evgeny Petrov (Rus) Astana Pro Team
28 Angel Madrazo Ruiz (Spa) Movistar Team 0:02:14
29 Wouter Mol (Ned) Vacansoleil-Dcm Pro Cycling Team
30 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:20
31 Rémy Di Gregorio (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:02:25
32 Mirko Selvaggi (Ita) Vacansoleil-Dcm Pro Cycling Team 0:02:26
33 Christopher Juul Jensen (Den) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:28
34 Guillaume Levarlet (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:02:30
35 Leif Hoste (Bel) Accent Jobs - Willems Veranda's
36 Mauro Santambrogio (Ita) BMC Racing Team
37 Anthony Delaplace (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
38 Simon Gerrans (Aus) Greenedge Cycling Team
39 Dimitri Le Boulch (Fra) Auber 93 0:02:37
40 Pablo Lastras (Spa) Movistar Team

 

[thehog]

my bad............your post here and others gave the impression that you were unimpressed

no-one has suggested that those performances with endura were comparable with ventoux just an improvement on previous rides by jtl

Mark L

His progression was neat and didn't just "burst" no the scene. It's only that his 2012 results considered with the rise of "Sky". So people immediately rushed to him and the next GT winner with Wiggins and Froome.

His profession is lot more realistic than Froome or Wiggins. JTL prior to sickness and his slow build back again was very normal.

JTL won 2.1 races twice in one season. That's about it. It's not like he started sprinting up Vuelta mountains after helping his team leader for the first 3/4 of a GT! coming from nowhere.

 

[gooner]

Is finishing ahead of Gesink and Samu at Murcia no big deal?

1 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 4:51:52
2 Wout Poels (Ned) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:00:14
3 Jonathan Tiernan-Locke (GBr) Endura Racing 0:00:16
4 Sergio Pardilla (Spa) Movistar Team
5 Samuel Sanchez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:00:26
6 Johnny Hoogerland (Ned) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team 0:00:32
7 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:53
8 Jonathan Castroviejo (Spa) Movistar Team
9 Adrian Palomares (Spa) Andalucia
10 Bartosz Huzarski (Pol) Team NetApp 0:00:58
11 Paul Voss (Ger) Endura Racing 0:01:18
12 Danail Petrov (Bul) Caja Rural
13 Garikoitz Bravo (Spa) Caja Rural 0:01:28
14 Sander Armee (Bel) Topsport Vlaanderen - Mercator 0:01:41
15 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Movistar Team 0:01:47
16 Andre Cardoso (Por) Caja Rural 0:02:14
17 Iker Camaño (Spa) Endura Racing 0:02:18
18 Matthias Brandle (Aut) Team NetApp 0:02:33
19 Pieter Serry (Bel) Topsport Vlaanderen - Mercator
20 Andreas Dietziker (Swi) Team NetApp

 

[thehog]

I only know one or two riders on this list.

Haut Var, stage 2.

Sure and the Top 10 shows how much they cared about a training race for actual PT riders.

Roman Hardy out climbing Quintana and two guys called Julien...must have all been doping those Frenchies

Nice try Gooner but leave the Walsh-isms at the door.

2. Julien El Fares (Fra) Team Type 1 - Sanofi 0:00:01
3 Julien Simon (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:04
4 Jonathan Hivert (Fra) Saur - Sojasun 0:00:11
5 Simon Clarke (Aus) Greenedge Cycling Team 0:00:13
6 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 0:00:19
7 Fredrik Kessiakoff (Swe) Astana Pro Team
8 Maxime Bouet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
9 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Garmin - Barracuda
10 Romain Hardy (Fra) Bretagne - Schuller

 

[thehog]

Is finishing ahead of Gesink and Samu at Murcia no big deal?

And again you clearly haven't watched the stage. You just looked at the results.

The stage was like a bunch of mid-40 year old Dads going out for a Sunday ride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WORav-xR5KU&sns=em

Check out the big names on he front towards the end!

Again, stop informing your opinions just glancing over the results sheet. You do yourself no favours.

 

[gooner]

And again you clearly haven't watched the stage. You just looked at the results.

The stage was like a bunch of mid-40 year old Dads going out for a Sunday ride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WORav-xR5KU&sns=em

Check out the big names on he front towards the end!

Again, stop informing your opinions just glancing over the results sheet. You do yourself no favours.

Hold on now a sec. I watched a lengthy video of this race at the time, something which I'm sure you didn't judging by some of your opinions on here. Dailymotion had the whole stage put up so get your facts right.

How many PT riders were in the top 20 of that decisive stage?

 

[roundabout]

Ahahahaha, winning the Tour of Crete.

Can't stop laughing.

 

[thehog]

Ahahahaha, winning the Tour of Crete.

Can't stop laughing.

True. But that was 2008. Wasn't like it was the Atomic Jock race.

From that point to 2012 it was a steady progression, yes? He didn't win the Vuelta the following year or come 4th in the Tour all of a sudden.

Funny how people have perspectives on things

 

[roundabout]

Must have taken some super duper Sky dope to go from this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp-U1jvmfLA#t=1132

to a WC top 20.

Or this

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21615

And Corps de Garde is an "easy" climb at pro level

Please troll some more

 

[thehog]

Must have taken some super duper Sky dope to go from this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp-U1jvmfLA#t=1132

to a WC top 20.

Or this

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21615

And Corps de Garde is an "easy" climb at pro level

Please troll some more

I agree with you. His WC result is by far the best. Which was supervised by Sky and when the doping red flag was raised.

Vaar he out sprinted nondescript French guys in an early season race. Good result but it's not like he was at the end of a 260km World Road Race with everyone wanting to win and riding next to Gilbert with a Sky power meter on his bike! That's was huuuge.

They really are going super fast in that Vaar video you posted! looks like the average French guys are going to fall off their bikes.

 

[thehog]

Hold on now a sec. I watched a lengthy video of this race at the time, something which I'm sure you didn't judging by some of your opinions on here. Dailymotion had the whole stage put up so get your facts right.

How many PT riders were in the top 20 of that decisive stage?

My facts are straight as an arrow.

The race used to be 5 stages, it was cut to two and now it's one day race. Italians are banned from racing it.

The second stage was a time trial. Effectively it's one stage at a cold time of the year in warm sun. The final climb is up and down and has descents. It's a warm-up race for ProTour riders who have bigger goals later in the year.

For lower ranked riders it's their turn to shine. Hence why you saw non-ProTour teams on the front making the race.

I'm also sure there's an unwritten rule on this also to give these guys a chance early in the season and get TV time etc.

It's not raced likes it's a classic. I'm mean seriously Gooner. It's not like JTL came out and won Amstel or 2nd at the Vuelta.

He had good 2011 results and backed up very early on in 2012 when ProTour riders are just waking up!

 

[roundabout]

I agree with you. His WC result is by far the best. Which was supervised by Sky and when the doping red flag was raised.

Vaar he out sprinted nondescript French guys in an early season race. Good result but it's not like he was at the end of a 260km World Road Race with everyone wanting to win and riding next to Gilbert with a Sky power meter on his bike! That's was huuuge.

They really are going super fast in that Vaar video you posted! looks like the average French guys are going to fall off their bikes.

Yeah look at that average French guy with his average results

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=7834&year=0&all=0&current=0

http://www.strava.com/segments/mur-de-fayence-arrivée-tour-du-haut-var-946500

locke did the bit marked on the map in under 2:50. What a slowpoke .

But keep on trolling

 

[thehog]

Yeah look at that average French guy with his average results

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=7834&year=0&all=0&current=0

http://www.strava.com/segments/mur-de-fayence-arrivée-tour-du-haut-var-946500

locke did the bit marked on the map in under 2:50. What a slowpoke .

But keep on trolling

I knew you'd post this. And you should be honest. You've never heard of those French guys before. They've been bouncing around teams for years. But the fact you'd had to google them shows you have no idea of the point you're trying to make.

The race is full of French guys. It's a French provincial race. And JTL won the amateur version and spent time in France.

Why would that be so strange that he won it? Considering his 2011 results and he won the mountains classification at the ToB in 2011 - appears very logical progression.

Or was he doping in 2011 as well?

Seriously?

If someone said to me:

"A British guy won Vaar an early season race in France, raced mainly by French riders. The British guy won the amateur version early in his career and has lived in France".

I'd say: "Sure. Seems very logical".

You guys are saying: "Doper! except when joined Sky then he stopped".

Riiiiiight.

 

[roundabout]

Well duh.

The random French guys that I had to "google" sure as hell did not suck that bad as the logically progressing JTL in WT level races.

 

[thehog]

Err and he climbed for 2 minutes 50 seconds?!

Man that's insane. Call in WADA! and the World Police!

 

[thehog]

Well duh.

The random French guys that I had to "google" sure as hell did not suck that bad as the logically progressing JTL in WT level races.

Yes massive progression for random French guy who finished 2nd:

2012
2nd Overall, Tour du Haut Var
7th, Route Adélie
8th, Boucles de l'Aulne

That guy needs to slow down!

He's currently knocking the dead all over France at Team La Pomme Marseille 13!

Picture of random French guy who finished 2nd to JTL: - (nice kit mind you).

 

[roundabout]

Yikes, Sky signed a guy on a half million contract who can only beat a bunch of nobodies and needs Sky dope to perform in races that matter.

 

[thehog]

Yikes, Sky signed a guy on a half million contract who can only beat a bunch of nobodies and needs Sky dope to perform in races that matter.

Sky like other ProTour teams sign riders of different abilities to develop them.

Froome is a good example, yes?

Sky's Giro team is young and of mainly developing riders. The problem and JTL himself kept saying in interviews that's his not a GT rider. He's a short, punchy type of climber cum rolouer.

But the Bots had Froome type powers written all over him.

JTL is a good rider. But he hasn't actually really won anything of significance on a world stage.

His Worlds race was very very very strong. He was following attacks from Contador! After 230km!

His previous results are good and show an even progression over time after his sickness. Prior to that he also had good results as a junior.

The doping passport case surrounds the time of the World Championships under the care of Sky/BC.

 

[thehog]

I was wrong. The reigning Tour Champion could only place 8th in Haut-Var in 2010.

Must have been a strong field

 

[Ferminal]

Must have taken some super duper Sky dope to go from this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp-U1jvmfLA#t=1132

to a WC top 20.

Or this

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21615

And Corps de Garde is an "easy" climb at pro level

Please troll some more

Yeh, based on these results he had no right to be able to handle the Sunday ride passing Cauberg every 20km.

 

[thehog]

Yeh, based on these results he had no right to be able to handle the Sunday ride passing Cauberg every 20km.

On the Brailsford/Kerrison prep he was fine for his Sunday ride with Gilbert & Contador.