Jose Ibarguren

[neineinei]

LEFEVERE
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_sportnieuws/MG_wielrennen/1.1463148

He was asked whether Brian Holm and Ibarguen should leave OPQS he replies "how far do we need to go back, do I have to take Coppi out of his grave?"

Is he saying that Coppi is at OPQS now, or that Holm and Ibarguen are rotting corpses? .

 

[sniper]

LEFEVERE
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_sportnieuws/MG_wielrennen/1.1463148

He was asked whether Brian Holm and Ibarguen should leave OPQS he replies "how far do we need to go back, do I have to take Coppi out of his grave?"

the typical answer of a fraud: evasive and ambiguous, rather than straightforward and transparent.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I don't speak italian, but from the way you describe it, it does.

Whats that got to do with speaking italian?

 

[Tinman]

And now even more cycling "mainstream" on cyclismas. Great work, bump thread.

Maybe Pat ought to have read before he got Gilbert as his new recent poster boy.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/12/so-just-who-is-dr-jose-ibarguren-taus/

 

[hrotha]

Ugh, they call him "Dr Taus". This is like referring to Van den Broeck as "Broeck" or something like that. It's not that hard to learn the way Spanish surnames work when you have to deal with them on a daily basis, is it?

It's "Dr Ibarguren". "Taus" is his second surname and would pretty much only be used in official documents.

 

[sniper]

Ugh, they call him "Dr Taus". This is like referring to Van den Broeck as "Broeck" or something like that. It's not that hard to learn the way Spanish surnames work when you have to deal with them on a daily basis, is it?

It's "Dr Ibarguren". "Taus" is his second surname and would pretty much only be used in official documents.

ok, to say Dr. Taus is foolish.
But the Spanish/Portuguese habit of having two and sometimes three last names is confusing to many, including non-Iberian scientists when making bibliographic references. Especially Portuguese double/triple surnames can get really messy. I believe Spanish last names are a bit more organized.

 

[Ferminal]

If they have a longer given name their whole name is longer, like the Gil boys. So not too hard.

Who cares, but for consistency's sake they have to call them Velasco and Belmonte for 2013

 

[Parrulo]

ok, to say Dr. Taus is foolish.
But the Spanish/Portuguese habit of having two and sometimes three last names is confusing to many, including non-Iberian scientists when making bibliographic references. Especially Portuguese double/triple surnames can get really messy. I believe Spanish last names are a bit more organized.

what's the trouble with portuguese names?

it really is very simple. like for example:

Rui Alberto- personal name

Faria - Mothers last name

Da Costa - Father last name.

spanish names work exactly the same way cept the fathers last name goes first. some TV producers stupidity or commentators silliness is the only thing making this confusing like for example harmon calling Rui Costa "Faria da Costa" which would be the same as calling obama "hussein Obama"

 

[TheGame]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2017/Lotto-considering-Riccos-ex-doctor.aspx

From 2009

“I heard that Ibarguren wanted to leave Fuji,” explained team manager Marc Sergeant to Het Laatste Nieuws. “We are searching for an experienced doctor and he seemed like a good candidate. I have talked with him about his past and told him that if just one person from the team thinks that we might have problems that the deal will not go through,” he said.

Sergeant's testing of the waters about Ibarguren shows that progress is being made in the fight against doping in the sport. Once entities in cycling begin to see how the association with individuals related to doping activities can damage their image, as is the case here with Ibarguren, the clearer the anti-doping message will be at all levels of the sport.

 

[maltiv]

The fact that a team can hire a guy like Ibarguren and get so little **** from the media (relatively speaking) is one of many reasons why cycling still isn't clean. Ideally, the media should be all over the team with critical questions. There is simply no argument for hiring a doctor with Ibarguren's reputation unless one wants his doping services. Yet the team hasn't even had to try to answer any critical questions as of yet.

As the interest in Sky was getting bigger and their connections to Leinder became public knowledge, they felt pressured to clean up. Furthermore, the interest in the team was so great that they got rid of everyone with a doping history. The same interest needs to be applied to other teams as well! If the press lets a team like OPQS win every classic without even questioning why exactly they hired said doping doctor, then this sport will never clean up.

There also needs to be put some pressure on UCI to ban shady doctors from the sport permanently. It's just ridiculous how many teams at the moment have doctors who have been involved in doping scandals, most notably Katusha who have no less than 3 shady doctors...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

what's the trouble with portuguese names?

it really is very simple. like for example:

Rui Alberto- personal name

Faria - Mothers last name

Da Costa - Father last name.

spanish names work exactly the same way cept the fathers last name goes first. some TV producers stupidity or commentators silliness is the only thing making this confusing like for example harmon calling Rui Costa "Faria da Costa" which would be the same as calling obama "hussein Obama"

It doesn't help when sometimes the captions include both. I've seen race coverage put him down as "R A Faria da Costa". At this point in his career it's insane not to know to refer to him as "Rui Costa" but a couple of years ago I could see the confusion. After all, when Alberto Fernández de la Puebla Ramos tested positive the other year, the main page had an article reading "de la Puebla Ramos tests positive", despite that nobody would call him that, except maybe the few on the forum who call Contador "Velasco".

 

[Arnout]

what's the trouble with portuguese names?

it really is very simple. like for example:

Rui Alberto- personal name

Faria - Mothers last name

Da Costa - Father last name.

spanish names work exactly the same way cept the fathers last name goes first. some TV producers stupidity or commentators silliness is the only thing making this confusing like for example harmon calling Rui Costa "Faria da Costa" which would be the same as calling obama "hussein Obama"

But why isn't he called Rui da Costa then?

To be honest Portuguese names can really confuse me, as it can be very hard to see where a first name ends and a last name begins, for me that is.

 

[hrotha]

It doesn't help when sometimes the captions include both. I've seen race coverage put him down as "R A Faria da Costa". At this point in his career it's insane not to know to refer to him as "Rui Costa" but a couple of years ago I could see the confusion. After all, when Alberto Fernández de la Puebla Ramos tested positive the other year, the main page had an article reading "de la Puebla Ramos tests positive", despite that nobody would call him that, except maybe the few on the forum who call Contador "Velasco".

Well, Alberto Fernández de la Puebla is a special case, because people who bear super common surnames are typically referred to either with both their first name and first surname together (thus Joaquim Rodríguez and Samuel Sánchez, never just Rodríguez or Sánchez), or with both surnames (for example, it's usually Sánchez Pimienta). Using the second surname when it's distinctive enough does happen if the first surname is very common - thus former president Zapatero or Rodríguez Zapatero, never Rodríguez.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, Alberto Fernández de la Puebla is a special case, because people who bear super common surnames are typically referred to either with both their first name and first surname together (thus Joaquim Rodríguez and Samuel Sánchez, never just Rodríguez or Sánchez), or with both surnames (for example, it's usually Sánchez Pimienta). Using the second surname when it's distinctive enough does happen if the first surname is very common - thus former president Zapatero or Rodríguez Zapatero, never Rodríguez.

Yea, but they left out the "Fernández" and included the "Ramos", which was pretty confusing. I'm used to referring to, say, David García da Peña, Julián Sánchez Pimienta, José Antonio López Gil etc with both surnames, as examples. I guess I subconsciously do it with less well-known riders though, as with those well known riders with common surnames I tend to use given name(s) + first surname as you describe above (see also: Luís León Sánchez, Jesús Hernández).

I think we can agree, though: Ibarguren is in no way a common enough surname to justify using the second surname only like you describe with Zapatero.

 

[Parrulo]

But why isn't he called Rui da Costa then?

To be honest Portuguese names can really confuse me, as it can be very hard to see where a first name ends and a last name begins, for me that is.

that is really troublesome to explain in english, the simplest way to put is, "da" means from and "costa" means coast so "da costa" is a reference to where he happens to be(povoa de varzim a city near the coast where many live of fishing) doing those littles plays with surnames been decreasing over the years and it will eventually disappear.

the easiest way to think about it is just to use the first and last name, literally the first and last words of the name and completely forget about the rest. i challenge you to find a portuguese person where applying that rule would be wrong.

 

[Ferminal]

The fact that a team can hire a guy like Ibarguren and get so little **** from the media (relatively speaking) is one of many reasons why cycling still isn't clean. Ideally, the media should be all over the team with critical questions. There is simply no argument for hiring a doctor with Ibarguren's reputation unless one wants his doping services. Yet the team hasn't even had to try to answer any critical questions as of yet.

As the interest in Sky was getting bigger and their connections to Leinder became public knowledge, they felt pressured to clean up. Furthermore, the interest in the team was so great that they got rid of everyone with a doping history. The same interest needs to be applied to other teams as well! If the press lets a team like OPQS win every classic without even questioning why exactly they hired said doping doctor, then this sport will never clean up.

There also needs to be put some pressure on UCI to ban shady doctors from the sport permanently. It's just ridiculous how many teams at the moment have doctors who have been involved in doping scandals, most notably Katusha who have no less than 3 shady doctors...

Cycling media doesn't really exist, it's just a series of PR exercises. From my perspective anyway, I guess the newspapers (L'Equipe, GdS, Nieuwsblad) do it differently.

 

[Tinman]

Well worth a bump for this also for recent readers who may not have seen this great work by Caruut in the 'Doping Family Tree' thread two months ago:

Well, here we have a rough version of it. I may have made some glaring omissions, though if you think I've missed a link between two people on there already it may just be two dimensions holding me back. I've avoided having any lines crossing - sacrificing comprehensiveness for comprehensibility. If anyone wants a .docx or .doc of it to play around with and make your own improvements and revisions then send me a PM and I'll email it to you.

I've tried to make the links somewhat relevant - for example Boonen receives links to Lefevre and Ibarguren but his one year with Bruyneel doesn't merit a link. The focus of inclusion has been on the most successful riders and the biggest doping scandals - While Galimzyanov wouldn't feature without his EPO positive, Nick Nuyens appears solely due to his link with Riis and monument win. Others, like Lance, Alberto and Rasmussen make the cut by being both famous and infamous.

While it doesn't contain any real new information, while making it I was struck by quite how interlinked the doping mess in cycling is. Note that inclusion on this list in no way means a cyclist has been doping. If a cyclist is clean then it perhaps illustrates how close temptation is at all times - even for the strongest of wills. Finally, apologies for the large image, but frankly resizing it makes it impossible to read and as you can probably tell, blue is a rider, red a manager and green a doctor or soigneur. Enjoy, and let me know your thoughts.

EDIT: I've reduced it to 60% size and included instead a link to the full-size version.

 

[del1962]

Is there a list of all doctors with a question mark against them?

 

[maltiv]

Is there a list of all doctors with a question mark against them?

This is a pretty good one:

http://velorooms.com/the-doping-section/the-dodgy-team-staff-thread-a-work-in-progress/

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I wonder how successful he will be this year?

 

[Marco Pantani]

Jose is back.

 

[timbat]

Qatar? 12345

 

[Netserk]

Qatar? 12345

Yes QS and Boonen didn't know what to do there before they got Mr. Taus.

 

[doperhopper]

poor Jose, he's innocent, but anybody would have tough life as a clean cycling doctor with such a nice drug-like name, sounding almost as ibuprofen (but hey, name-wise, nothing beats "EPO CREATOR Tour of California")

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The Polish guy is very dodgy and i am not talking about the hitch.