Juan Ayuso discussion thread

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Sep 5, 2016
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Ayuso always showed a great level early in the season. I don't get this hype to be honest. It's the same thing over and over again.
Each time you reshuffle the deck the cards come out differently.
Ayuso, Remco, Roglic, Cian, Girmay, Gee, list is pretty long of riders who have made changes trying to come up with correct combination for success.
The case of Juan Ayuso is of cycling professionals showing deep confidence in his abilities. UAE signed him to long term contract, and now Trek looked at him and decided that 5 years was a workable time frame. Something about the way Juan talks and rides, trains, races has been recognized by top teams, UAE and Trek that he is an outstanding long term prospect. The best in the business see potential in him.
 
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Aug 31, 2014
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Del Toro is more explosive and a better classics rider overall (his ease on gravel, for example, is tremendous).
However, Ayuso isn't far behind him in terms of climbing explosiveness, especially on climbs longer than 5-10 minutes, where I feel Del Toro is almost invincible. But in a sprint after a 20-30 minute climb, I'm not so sure about the difference between them.

Then it's clear that Ayuso is the best time trialist, and in my opinion, his w/kg on standard climbs (20-30 minutes) is also slightly superior, although Del Toro, on Jebel Jais, demonstrated a level similar to Ayuso's usual performance on those types of climbs during the spring months.

In Grand Tours, both leave doubts, but I still think that without the crash that changed everything on the gravel stage, Roglic and Ayuso would have dominated the Giro ahead of the three who made it to the podium. However, Del Toro has improved since then.

Final verdict: They are very evenly matched, but I think that in a week-long stage race with a significant time trial, Ayuso remains the favorite. However, I think the opposite is true for a one-day race.
Ideally, Roglic would recover the form he showed in last year's Volta a Catalunya to better measure both Del Toro and Ayuso at the Itzulia Basque Country. I still think he could teach them a lesson.
 
Feb 20, 2012
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Profile wise I think Ayuso is indeed more for the longer climbs and TTs than Del Toro. Del Toro doesn't really seem to do consistent efforts and really love his tempo changes, and I wonder if his ability on shorter climbs isn't slightly overrated because his turn of speed is so huge. He doesn't seem to have great endurance in one day races, he'll look great, then crack, but despite cracking he tends to recover and win the group sprints and whatnot.

They even have pretty similar profiles in one day races, but it's hard to rate Ayuso for Liege and Lombardia because he's been frozen out his entire UAE career.

Whether Ayuso is a good signign for Lidl, it really depends on if UAE got the most out of him or not, because if you can't make Ayuso better it seems like an extraordinarily expensive deal.
 
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Mar 12, 2010
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for me the exciting thing about Ayuso is that we don't really know how good he is because he's been inhibited by being with UAE. He always looked in control last week against strong competitors

I don’t necessarily agree he was inhibited by UAE.

He had a couple of shots at GT leadership which fell by the wayside, in his last year not necessarily his fault due to bad luck etc and he was the obvious one to leave given where he, Almeida and del Torro were in their careers.

He was backed and did well in some early season races for UAE- Tirreno/Pais Vasco 24 and Tirreno/Catalunya 25. I hope he has a great season and can find the consistency and element of luck required to progress in a GT.

His form in these week long stage races should surprise no one given his pedigree the last couple of seasons.
 
Sep 5, 2016
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Profile wise I think Ayuso is indeed more for the longer climbs and TTs than Del Toro. Del Toro doesn't really seem to do consistent efforts and really love his tempo changes, and I wonder if his ability on shorter climbs isn't slightly overrated because his turn of speed is so huge. He doesn't seem to have great endurance in one day races, he'll look great, then crack, but despite cracking he tends to recover and win the group sprints and whatnot.

They even have pretty similar profiles in one day races, but it's hard to rate Ayuso for Liege and Lombardia because he's been frozen out his entire UAE career.

Whether Ayuso is a good signign for Lidl, it really depends on if UAE got the most out of him or not, because if you can't make Ayuso better it seems like an extraordinarily expensive deal.
I don't see anything about either rider having depth for something like Liege at @250k+..Lombardy also outside of Del Toro's tested range at 240+.
Ayuso is not scheduled for Strade Bianchi..at @200 Del Toro is there to support Tadej Pogacar, not sure either Del Toro or Ayuso have anything in the tank against pure power guys like MVP. Juan is scheduled for Paris-Nice and we will see if he carries his excellent form and list of competitors is very good.. Maybe see were Ayuso sizes up against Vingegaard currently.
I don't know the details of the deal but Trek signing Juan for 5 years is pretty bold.
Ayuso spent time in Atlanta and his English reflects it.. All interviews in Spanish are about @75% above my ability.. Del Toro's English speed is perfect for me.. Lol
 
Sep 4, 2017
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Ayuso currently has the best flat TT of every GC candidate outside of Remco and this can carry him to a lot of 1 week stage race success.

Hopefully facing Jonas in Paris-Nice will add to the climbing data ahead of the Tour.
 
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Ayuso currently has the best flat TT of every GC candidate outside of Remco and this can carry him to a lot of 1 week stage race success.

Hopefully facing Jonas in Paris-Nice will add to the climbing data ahead of the Tour.
No, he doesn't. Another myth created because he usually overperforms early in the season, specially in TTs.
Here, you can find all Ayuso flat TT results in his career. This shows Ayuso is not the second best at all when it really matters.





 
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Jul 8, 2017
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Ayuso has a better chance of finishing outside top 10 or DNF than he does 3rd. He’s not that guy bar many things going his way.

Well
No, he doesn't. Another myth created because he usually overperforms early in the season, specially in TTs.
Here, you can find all Ayuso flat TT results in his career. This shows Ayuso is not the second best at all when it really matters.






His point was about 1 week stage races though. And he is right though.
He is quite good and consistent TTer in short stage races and it will probably bring him good amount of GC wins.

As for the GTs, where he isn't as consistently good, but top 10-15, where he is, is usually enough to fight for podiums IF you climb well enough. Ayuso hasn't been good since 2023.
He's had good explanations for not delivering in GT's though, a sickness, a crash and bad shape (said himself he didn't want to go). But as for Remco, you can't judge him on old results.
So for now he is an elite 1 week racer and questionable GT rider (spanish Simon Spilak perhaps?).
 
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Jul 15, 2021
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So for now he is an elite 1 week racer and questionable GT rider
I think that's exactly how it's gonna pan out. He'll probably bring in a bunch of UCI points for the team in those shorter GC races. But GT's? They brought someone in with a pretty heavy ego. Whereas they used to scout very much towards team spirit and just putting a team together with people that are willing to sacrifice themselves for eachother.
So yeah, I think they'll be doing fine in the classics (even without Mads for a while). But in the grand tours? I'm definitely not so sure. Not to mention they also have top-class sprinters that are expecting to be supported. at the big races.
 
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Jul 8, 2017
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I think that's exactly how it's gonna pan out. He'll probably bring in a bunch of UCI points for the team in those shorter GC races. But GT's? They brought someone in with a pretty heavy ego. Whereas they used to scout very much towards team spirit and just putting a team together with people that are willing to sacrifice themselves for eachother.
So yeah, I think they'll be doing fine in the classics (even without Mads for a while). But in the grand tours? I'm definitely not so sure. Not to mention they also have top-class sprinters that are expecting to be supported. at the big races.

The ego isn't the biggest problem for Ayuso, his performances in GT's are.
If he is able to consistently deliver top GT results, like, let's say, Carapaz on top of the top notch 1 week-ers, I think they will be perfectly happy with him, I guess. Besides, if Mads Pedersen fully gives up on the bunch sprints, they won't have a problem to co-exist.


Plus, I kinda think that the whole ego thing got a bit overblown in UAE. He is probably not the Sepp Kuss type of team mate, but don't think he'll have problems working for a team mate if he doesn't have chances for the GC.
In Lidl-Trek it worked so well because they didn't have strong GT rider (Ciccone isn't in my opinion).
If Ayuso really turns out to be the Ciccone type in the GTs, I think he'll help the team as much as the team helps him.
 
Sep 5, 2016
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The ego isn't the biggest problem for Ayuso, his performances in GT's are.
If he is able to consistently deliver top GT results, like, let's say, Carapaz on top of the top notch 1 week-ers, I think they will be perfectly happy with him, I guess. Besides, if Mads Pedersen fully gives up on the bunch sprints, they won't have a problem to co-exist.


Plus, I kinda think that the whole ego thing got a bit overblown in UAE. He is probably not the Sepp Kuss type of team mate, but don't think he'll have problems working for a team mate if he doesn't have chances for the GC.
In Lidl-Trek it worked so well because they didn't have strong GT rider (Ciccone isn't in my opinion).
If Ayuso really turns out to be the Ciccone type in the GTs, I think he'll help the team as much as the team helps him.
There are lots of things that Juan Ayuso has done right and wrong ,but the portrayal of his ego is completely the responsibility of UAE,
Young, green Ayuso should have never, ever, ever been put in the position to explain the pecking order at UAE as things appeared top heavy, Almedia, Pogacar and Juan's responsibilities should have had a well defined chain of command, well before Ayuso crashed and suddenly, Isaac Del Toro presented another leadership option for big races.
The riders were logically asked.. Are you the leader? Have you been displaced by a flying Del Toro?..
All of that should have been laid out by management, not dealt with through mostly polite infighting.. Absolutely ridiculous that Del Toro was asked day after day if he was replacing Ayuso, which Isaac answered from the heart, Juan is the leader until further notice.
Idiotic management had Del Toro's words and actions making no sense. Ayuso uneventfuly dropped out and team never had the huevos to just state the obvious, created a short lived mini drama, that hurt everyone.
Juan Ayuso was treated very, very disrespectfully in a hands off, backs turned away.
Isaac was taking over race leadership role but UAE let it unfold over a few days, until everything was obvious, and Juan succumbed..
Disgusting, it crushed his place in the team.. UAE was gutless the way they treated him. Hopefully a teaching point for all..
Tadej Pogacar is treated one way.. everyone else can find themselves in a circular firing squad.. terrible circumstances that never needed to happen. In my opinion, UAE vibed Ayuso out of the team, not so subtle brow beating him out of favor, it could have been worse, but not much.
Do I think Ayuso handled it the best? No..but who would have.
There is a scene in zany comedy movie Talladega Nights, when the main character, Ricky Bobby, played perfectly by Will Ferrell comes home to discover his best friend to have taken over his wife, children, family and house.. Juan Ayuso played the same role almost as good.. Del Toro playing Cal..the " best friend "

Maybe ego played a part but Ayuso was publicly trashed by UAE and they left him hanging..
Maybe instead of comedy, Tom Brady, Drew Bledsoe dynamic.. One guy gets hurt, another guy takes over, nobody looks back.
Juan' s misfortune launched Isaac into stardom
 
Apr 13, 2025
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Sorry, but Ayuso is not a victim and shares responsibility for this situation.

In 2024 Tour, the hierarchy was clearly defined, and he made statements before the Tour and in the race he didn't respect the team and the hierarchy.

Besides, he can't complain; he's been leading races since he was 19. Del Toro worked morr for him in 2024 season than Ayuso's ever done for a Tour de France winner on the same team.
Remember also that Almeida is losing Catalunya and Ayuso has been attacking.
There have been several instances of disrespect shown to the hierarchy by someone who has been supported for years.
Let's also remember that, despite his statements at last years Vuelta , Jay Vine helped him win a stage.

This bullying narrative doesn't hold.
 
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Sep 12, 2022
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Sorry, but Ayuso is not a victim and shares responsibility for this situation.

In 2024 Tour, the hierarchy was clearly defined, and he made statements before the Tour and in the race he didn't respect the team and the hierarchy.

Besides, he can't complain; he's been leading races since he was 19. Del Toro worked morr for him in 2024 season than Ayuso's ever done for a Tour de France winner on the same team.
Remember also that Almeida is losing Catalunya and Ayuso has been attacking.
There have been several instances of disrespect shown to the hierarchy by someone who has been supported for years.
Let's also remember that, despite his statements at last years Vuelta , Jay Vine helped him win a stage.

This bullying narrative doesn't hold.
Is it Ayuso's fault that he contractually arranged to be a leader in 1 GT per season?
 
Sep 12, 2022
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Of course not. However other than 2024 (where he wanted to ride the Tour) in which year was he not allowed to lead a GT.
Cycling111 specifically mentions TDF 2024, and that Ayuso needed to follow Pog's dictatorship, but he wasn't obliged to do so. So not sure why people keep complaining about that.
 
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Mar 12, 2010
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Cycling111 specifically mentions TDF 2024, and that Ayuso needed to follow Pog's dictatorship, but he wasn't obliged to do so. So not sure why people keep complaining about that.

Not sure i’d describe Pogacar’s leadership as a ‘dictatorship’ 🙂.

As i understood it in 2024 it was he who wanted to ride the Tour. Presumably he could have said i have this contractual entitlement and i want to lead a GT so i want to lead the Vuelta at the outset of the season.

If that is the case, and was his choice to ride the Tour, it would be strange for him- and I don’t think he did think this by the way- (or anyone) to think the consequence would be anything other than parking your personal ambitions and that you would be expected to work for Pog.

Ultimately some of the criticism of Ayuso was completely overblown - however as a general premise, it was clear who UAE’s leader was for the 2024 Tour.
 
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Oct 15, 2017
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Crazy to say as Pog gives 2 GTs, most seasons, and almost all other stage-races + many one-day races for other guys to target.

Some just gonna spin narratives I guess though.
 
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Jul 8, 2017
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Sorry, but Ayuso is not a victim and shares responsibility for this situation.

In 2024 Tour, the hierarchy was clearly defined, and he made statements before the Tour and in the race he didn't respect the team and the hierarchy.

Besides, he can't complain; he's been leading races since he was 19. Del Toro worked morr for him in 2024 season than Ayuso's ever done for a Tour de France winner on the same team.
Remember also that Almeida is losing Catalunya and Ayuso has been attacking.
There have been several instances of disrespect shown to the hierarchy by someone who has been supported for years.
Let's also remember that, despite his statements at last years Vuelta , Jay Vine helped him win a stage.

This bullying narrative doesn't hold.

I don't think a clear hierarchy was defined actually.
If I remember correctly early in 2024 it was stated by UAE that they go with "the best they have" - 4 leaders.
Which at the time totally made sense, Vingegaard just destroyed Pogacar in the Tour and Pogacar was doing the Giro beforehand, seeming like a form of capitulation, hence, Vingegaard was the odds-on favourite in january-february 2024 and going with 4 leaders would have made sense. Hence Ayuso, Almeida and Yates were probably told he'll be co-leaders.


Fast forward to june - Itzulia had happened. Vingegaard crashed heavily, the whole Visma team was in disarray and Pog seemed improved - he was the odds-on favourite to win the Tour and undisputed leader of UAE. Which of course is different to the initial plans.
And even if that's somewhat understandable, UAE massively failed once again by not defining a clear hierarchy behind Pogacar (or at least I don't remember such a thing). You go with Pogacar, who is the big favourite and the guy behind him has a serious chance to fight for podium. And you have 3 guys, on disposal of Pogacar, but in internal battle with each other who the next in line is creating the perfect storm for internal conflicts.

So yeah, I don't think Ayuso is the perfect teammate, but UAE team management has been horrible and massively helped creating the bad Ayuso image.
 
Sep 12, 2022
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I don't understand why you are constantly trying to denigrate Pogacar's image.
He is lucky, he is a dictator, what is your problem with him?
Did I say something that was wrong? No need to go over the whole Pogacar is a dictator in this topic again, you were already part of that discussion months ago.
 
Apr 13, 2025
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Cycling111 specifically mentions TDF 2024, and that Ayuso needed to follow Pog's dictatorship, but he wasn't obliged to do so. So not sure why people keep complaining about that.
If not being a leader in the Tour while on the team of the overwhelming favorite is a dictatorship, how we can define that Merlier, probably the besr sprinter in the world, couldn't go to the same Tour due to a third place?