Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Salvarani]

I think what is most likely true is that UAE in December 2023 gave Ayuso freedom for the Tour 2024.
Vingegaard had destroyed Pogacar in 2023 and the Giro was a form of capitulation from Pog. UAE were not 100 % confident in Tadej.
Nobody expected that Pogacar will become a different beast under Javier Sola.

There is no idea to know for sure.

But it was more so a case of Ayuso wanting to do himself and he got what he wished for in that regard.

Everything else and what the plan was... roles, who knows. At the end, he just cant do his own thing in the race.

Im still waiting for confirmation on the contract though. I would like to see what it says, since someone seems so sure and must have seen it with their own eyes.

 

[canina82]

Did I say something that was wrong? No need to go over the whole Pogacar is a dictator in this topic again, you were already part of that discussion months ago.

Dictator seems a bit too much, specially when there is zero evidence that supports your opinion. And don't even understand what you tried to say about me participating in this discussion months ago.

 

[Rou]

There is no idea to know for sure.

But it was more so a case of Ayuso wanting to do himself and he got what he wished for in that regard.

Everything else and what the plan was... roles, who knows.

Still waiting for confirmation on the contract though. I would like to see what it says, since someone seems so sure.

Any agreements (if there were made) don't change the fact that Ayuso is a selfish rider.
His riding in the Vuelta 2025 was a disgrace.

 

[Salvarani]

As I said in my post earlier, when it was decided that all of them 4 go to the Tour, Fairly sure Vingegaard was the overwhelming favourite.
Hence Ayuso was probably promised a co-leadership.

Co-leader or not, doesnt mean you can disobey what the team tells you in the race.

 

[Cycling111]

@Berniece I see you didn't quote all message, Merlier's part.

You said the same thing in FW, saying that Pogacar was a dictator and should give it to Jan Christen (Chirsten, a very generous and no seldish rider. LOL).
But we see that Remco doesn't give away minor races he can win, like Valencia. He should have given it to Pellizzari instead of having him work there.

And even that isn't open to criticism. Pogacar and Remco are paid 8 million to win, not to be charitable.

Races like FW aren't given away. He already gave away Montreal, and it wouldn't be a criticism not to do so.
Merckx didn't give away those kinds of races.

A Tour de France isn't the place for a battle of egos when you're on the favorite's team, and Flèche Wallonne isn't Coppa Bernocchi in October.

What Ayuso did on a Merckx team should have gotten him expelled of that Tour. In a Tour de France, you can't waste time on egos; whoever doesn't agree, get out.
It's professional sport; they have to win with the best athlete. It's not a school playground, much less Tour de France.

If having a hierarchy in the most important race in the world seems like a dictatorship to you, you have a distorted view.

 

[Salvarani]

One of the team leaders. He can ride for himself. Pogacar can too, and the team can ride for Pogacar. But Ayuso doesn't have to do the same.

Yeah, sure. Someone part of a team doesnt have to participate. Thats really how things works. Someone with that attitude is bound to leave, or get kicked out, which is what happened.

 

[canina82]

No, Ayuso didn't have any freedom in the 2024 TdF. That's not true. There is a interview with Matxin or Gianetti when UAE was in Isola (June) and he said everyone would be in the Tour to help Tadej (Ayuso included).

 

[Berniece]

You said the same thing in FW, saying that Pogacar was a dictator and should give it to Jan Christen (Chirsten, a very generous and no seldish rider. LOL).

What? I didn't say that Pogacar should gift the victory to Jan Christen at Fleche Wallone. Can you quote that?

 

[YavorD]

Co-leader or not, doesnt mean you can disobey what the team tells you in the race.

Contractually, you can.
If you're specifically signed to LEAD. one GT a year and they send you to the Tour..you can base that ot your contracts.
Plus, I don't necessarily think he was not against working for Pogacar.
I think the main problem is that he wanted to be the clear second after Pogacar, which he had the full right to require (same goes to Almeida and Yates of course).

And this is where UAE failed massively. They didn't put a clear hierarchy below Pogacar which was needed with the riders they brought.
And that's why I agree with the poster who said that UAE's main management was horrible and played a big role in the whole Ayuso saga.

 

[Peyresourde]

I don't really get where the rumour comes from that GT-leadership is a stipulation in his contract (source?). Gianetti clearly said in an interview that he does not do contracts like that and he also mentioned before that Tour that Pogacar would be the leader and Ayuso had agreed to that.

They might have verbally promised him leadership in a lot of races, but not written in the contract. Also, it would have been impossible to keep 4 riders of that caliber until after this year even with the best managment in history, so getting a high buyout for him was not a mistake by the team, but good business. (They got all the money back they invested in him and he won them many races)

 

[SHAD0W93]

And you have 3 guys, on disposal of Pogacar, but in internal battle with each other who the next in line is creating the perfect storm for internal conflicts.

So yeah, I don't think Ayuso is the perfect teammate, but UAE team management has been horrible and massively helped creating the bad Ayuso image.

Almeida and Adam knew their role in the hierarchy and performed it. Ayuso was the one trying to slack off but the biggest person that seemed upset was Almeida, not Pogacar.

 

[canina82]

Yates will be my right hand, Almeida and Ayuso will be my super climbing domestiques.
Why is this even a debate? Ayuso didn't have a free role, why are some here trying to pretend he had a free card?

'We have a full star team' - Tadej Pogačar confirms Yates, Ayuso and Almeida for Tour de France squad

'Mentally I'm better, physically I'm a little destroyed' Slovenian says after winning the Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Salvarani]

Contractually, you can.
If you're specifically signed to LEAD. one GT a year and they send you to the Tour..you can base that ot your contracts.
Plus, I don't necessarily think he was not against working for Pogacar.
I think the main problem is that he wanted to be the clear second after Pogacar, which he had the full right to require (same goes to Almeida and Yates of course).

And this is where UAE failed massively. They didn't put a clear hierarchy below Pogacar which was needed with the riders they brought.
And that's why I agree with the poster who said that UAE's main management was horrible and played a big role in the whole Ayuso saga.

Show me where it says in the contract. Because some of you are saying it like it is a fact.

And if he went as co-lead, that would technically oblige that part. No?

However, how you conduct yourself matters. Where does it say in the contract one can ignore what the team tells someone to do in the race? How does that work, contractually? One cant conduct themselves how they please and decide for themselves on team decisions. You are not allowed to just do whatever, lol.

 

[canina82]

Almeida and Adam knew their role in the hierarchy and performed it. Ayuso was the one trying to slack off but the biggest person that seemed upset was Almeida, not Pogacar.

In fact it was Yates. Almeida was pretty calm after the stage. Yates was very critical after the stage.
There is a strong case to be made about Yates not helping Ayuso in 2025 TA due to what happened in Galibier.

 

[Berniece]

Yates will be my right hand, Almeida and Ayuso will be my super climbing domestiques.
Why is this even a debate? Ayuso didn't have a free role, why are some here trying to pretend he had a free card?

'We have a full star team' - Tadej Pogačar confirms Yates, Ayuso and Almeida for Tour de France squad

'Mentally I'm better, physically I'm a little destroyed' Slovenian says after winning the Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

Because his contract said so

 

[fenns]

presumably this is why he didn't ride the Vuelta - he'd used up his "team leader" spot in the Tour?

everyone's been asking the wrong question. it should have been why didn't Pogi help Ayuso in the Tour?

 

[Salvarani]

Because his contract said so

SHOW US

 

[canina82]

Because his contract said so

And he still decided to race the Tour even when his DS and team leader said he would be a domestique 4 weeks before the race?

Regarding his contract, you (me and 99% of this forum) don't have a clue about what was written there.

 

[Berniece]

Regarding his contract, you (me and 99% of this forum) don't have a clue about what was written there.

If we aren’t going to take into account what journalists say they heard you are not going to like the transfers and rumours thread

 

[Netserk]

If we aren’t going to take into account what journalists say they heard you are not going to like the transfers and rumours thread

no one does so uncritically

like i dont believe vingegaard considers a transfer to unox just because a journo likes to make *** up

 

[Salvarani]

If we aren’t going to take into account what journalists say they heard you are not going to like the transfers and rumours thread

We are not gonna care if journalists "misquote" riders either then, right?

 

[Berniece]

no one does so uncritically

like i dont believe vingegaard considers a transfer to unox just because a journo likes to make *** up

Sure, but this doesn’t come from a single journalist, and has been repeated a couple of times already

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Sure, but this doesn’t come from a single journalist, and has been repeated a couple of times already

If that's the case then Ayuso was an idiot to even take part in 2024 Tour knowing it'll be all in for Tadej (instead of choosing another GT with guaranteed leadership). Then again, I'm not necessarily buying this guarantee in contract rumours. He himself said in 2024 that Tadej was the Tour leader.

 

[Unchained]

Sorry, but Ayuso is not a victim and shares responsibility for this situation.

In 2024 Tour, the hierarchy was clearly defined, and he made statements before the Tour and in the race he didn't respect the team and the hierarchy.

Besides, he can't complain; he's been leading races since he was 19. Del Toro worked morr for him in 2024 season than Ayuso's ever done for a Tour de France winner on the same team.
Remember also that Almeida is losing Catalunya and Ayuso has been attacking.
There have been several instances of disrespect shown to the hierarchy by someone who has been supported for years.
Let's also remember that, despite his statements at last years Vuelta , Jay Vine helped him win a stage.

This bullying narrative doesn't hold.

I hardly think UAE management, not managing makes Juan Ayuso or Del Toro victims. And I also don't get any reference about bullying, if being completely ignored is bullying, then certainly Juan Ayuso was bullied. I think just dismissing his condition and then management going radio silent, suddenly not having answers or comments, was surely special circumstances, UAE usually has elaborate plans for everything, everyone. Juan was given a clear signal, sit down, shut up, follow orders to the letter or else . Once immature Ayuso went into a mode of physically and verbally showing his discontent he was sunk. Leader, leadership at a bizarre situation at the Giro should have been made clear by UAE management, not a couple of 21 year old that just kept looking at each other trying to figure out how to answer questions without insulting one another.
Maybe another thing about UAE damage control is being revealed by Soler saga, has UAE been told that it will blow over..or are they just ignoring possible personnel hand grenade , waiting for a damaging blow from Soler family misdeeds. It does not seem that they are too worried about it.
Video is available during the dead zone of the race, Del Toro being asked if he was the leader, if he was taking over for Juan Ayuso, first absolute no, second time a not so definitive no..3 time, suddenly UAE director sitting with Del Toro, I guess so they could keep the story straight. And at some point Del Toro was given the go ahead about saying publicly what he had already been told in private and what was fairly obvious, UAE had moved on from Ayuso..

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/cxlzXyTlgHg


Pretty uneventful.. It's just my opinion I think UAE treated Juan Ayuso like a piece of sh##. I have reasons for thinking that..and others have reasons to think I am wrong. I completely accept that. The label of victim is pretty dramatic, just people behaving badly in my opinion. There doesn't have to be a victim, seldom that black and white.

 

[jotafap]

Whether or not he had a clause in his contract is irrelevant, all this discussion about it is beyond me. He was assigned to the Tour 2024 team as a domestique. End of story. He must follow the instructions of his team leadership, else, he has no place in that team, as it ended up happening.
Calling Pogacar’s leadership a dictatorship is completely ridiculous, it’s pure nonsense from the haters.