Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Not them racing together but as of now Roglic scheduled for Vuelta and Evenepoel the Tour. If Evenepoel keeps performing like he just did in UAE, no way they don’t bring Rogic to Tour.

I'm 90% sure they will anyway. It's not like Evenepoel was flying at any point before the Tour de France in 2024.

 

[Berniece]

I'm 90% sure they will anyway. It's not like Evenepoel was flying at any point before the Tour de France in 2024.

It's not like he had a chance to show that. The race he could finally show it, Basque, he crashed out

 

[Salvarani]

I'm 90% sure they will anyway. It's not like Evenepoel was flying at any point before the Tour de France in 2024.

Went from being dropped by 7-8 riders in Dauphine to at least climb with Vinge here and there in the Tour

 

[Berniece]

Indeed, they never promised him a co-leadership in that Tour, or any other race with Pogacar.

Matxin:

"His teammates know perfectly well that Tadej Pogacar is the number one in the world; you only have to read the interviews with Almeida and Yates after their various victories in Switzerland. I think it's a very close-knit team. And above all, when I talk to riders about coming here, I'm very clear from the start. Guys like Adam Yates, like Sivakov, like Wellens and Politt, know they'll have their space, but when Tadej is there, we race for him. These are the conditions we set even before signing the contract. I'm not the one who makes them sign, but I only have one word, and that has to be respected. When Almeida and Ayuso asked me to come to the Tour, I told them it was fine, but that we would race with the idea of a single leader, and nothing would be done differently from what we had decided," he concluded.


Are there still doubts? Ayuso was never promised to be a co-leader on that tour.

These are the conditions we set even before signing the contract.

@Berniece

He knew who he was ahead him and that he wouldn't be a co-leader with him. We're not talking about a first contract without knowing what's involved; it was his responsibility to extend it with those conditions. And if he did, it's because he didn't see such mistreatment by the team.
Ayuso's problem is that he had a worse season than Almeida and Del Toro, not the supposed dictatorship of Pogacar under which he wanted to renew his contract.

You always ask for quotes. I've quoted what Matxin said about the contracts and the 2024 Tour.
It would be good if you cited where it says Ayuso would be a co-leader or that his contract included those other conditions.

Isola 2000, con Matxin nei giorni di Pogacar in altura - bici.PRO

Dopo il Giro di Svizzera e il Giro Next Gen, Matxin ha raggiunto Pogacar e il gruppo Tour a Isola 2000, fra allenamenti, scherzi e corse viste in tv

bici.pro

This is what I heard.
"It goes so far that during contract negotiations, it is mentioned that Ayuso has to ride one Grand Tour a year without Pogacar so that he is the lead rider."

Not completely as I remembered it, because I thought it was 1 GT per year as leader. But apparently it's 1 GT per year as leader as long as Pogacar isn't riding it. Now you know where I was coming from.

Zonneveld questions UAE's strategy in gravel stage: "They know Ayuso will leave one day"

Monday is a rest day in the Giro d'Italia, so there is plenty of time to discuss what has happened so far in the Tour of Italy. Especially after Wout van Aert won the ninth stage, it was not difficult...

www.idlprocycling.com

 

[CyclistAbi]

The issue between Pedersen and Ayuso will be on stages when Pedersen is supported and Ayuso has less and something potentially occurs to Ayuso. Pedersen can also do domestique duties, but will he go all in like WVA has done at risk of his own success. Ciccone runs the risk of doing to Ayuso what Ayuso did to Almeida in last year’s Vuelta. Good thing we will get to see Skjelmose and Ayuso race together soon. There’s a reason Ayuso was having issues and it’s not all just UAE. He left a team that was very young centric and joined one that is team orientated.

Only thing Bora should look at changing is potentially having Roglic go but that depends a lot on how Evenpoel’s season turns out.

Ayuso stayed second until rumors and the statement came out that he was leaving. Even then he got to do whatever he wanted in the Vuelta.

IMHO you do want Pedersen in the team, he is a big personality and i don't perceive him as all that selfish, he can even climb. I like Ciccone but i don't feel he will go for GC at the Tour 2026, he is more of a specialist for winning a stage. On what kind of relationship they will have with Skjelmose, that remains to be seen. Likely they will simply ride for themself until one comes on top. In terms of the Tour 2026. After the other can prove to be a valuable weapon for the team. All in all, worst case, they will be fighting on who is the favourite child and not the second favourite one, tough life.

As for Rogla and Remco i feel they will manage just fine. Currently it seems they chose separate schedules but at some point i feel that symbiosis has so many potential that even if there is currently some fear involved they can overcome that. If they will rather choose not to then individually they can both still win some. Lets not forget Rogla was offered support role and stage hunting for the Tour, that IMHO is an offer to decline, Remco wouldn't accept it either. So management need to do their part better also, support excellence.

Correct he never was but Matxin always pushed and backed him as if he was or number 1 in some cases. Eventually that become hard for Matxin to do and back no matter what he said or did as actions, results and performance always proved him and Ayuso wrong.

The talk now of him coming out and winning Algarve is the true Ayuso and Trek is better etc, this however is typical of his early season results even on UAE. He would be storming and the not deliver in major goals like Giro, Tour or Vuelta. No, he did not get voiced at the Tour when he went home, he was sent home due to actions.

At UAE Ayuso was a perfect scapegoat and majority just went with it as it suited them. At Lidl-Trek they are not good enough, to play such games in the first place. All in all they will be fine. At UAE it will be interesting to see on what happens when del Toro makes his move. It's bound to happen, appetite is too high not to do so.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So he will lead PN team riding against Jonas. Interesting.

 

[Rob5091]

If Ayuso wants to be taken seriously as a GT guy then now he has the opportunity to prove it.

 

[Cycling111]

If Ayuso wants to be taken seriously as a GT guy then now he has the opportunity to prove it.

While beating Vingegaard would be important, Ayuso's problems have come on tougher climbs and accumulated fatigue.

Jorgenson has won two Paris-Nice and seems far from winning a GT.
It would be an important victory, but the doubt for the GT will remain.

 

[Rob5091]

While beating Vingegaard would be important, Ayuso's problems have come on tougher climbs and accumulated fatigue.

Jorgenson has won two Paris-Nice and seems far from winning a GT.
It would be an important victory, but the doubt for the GT will remain.

Sure but Jorgenson was always number 2 to Vingegaard. If Ayuso does well then it's a steppping stone to the Tour which must be his main goal. Otherwise Trek might as well just send Milan and Pedersen.

 

[VanBsr]

He looked really bad after the crash. Any chance it’s not as bad as it looked?

 

[CyclistAbi]

When your chance to compete for the win is taken out in such way it's always bad.

 

[Red Rick]

He looked really bad after the crash. Any chance it’s not as bad as it looked?

The fact that he even tried to get back on makes one hope it's not a season ender.

 

[F_Cance]

Trek is truly cursed with their leaders this season.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

The fact that he even tried to get back on makes one hope it's not a season ender.

Considering that we've seen riders try to continue racing with anything up to and including fatal injuries, it's not really a reliable indicator.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Terrible stage for Ayuso. Hopefully for him it won't completely derail his season.

 

[Unchained]

IMHO you do want Pedersen in the team, he is a big personality and i don't perceive him as all that selfish, he can even climb. I like Ciccone but i don't feel he will go for GC at the Tour 2026, he is more of a specialist for winning a stage. On what kind of relationship they will have with Skjelmose, that remains to be seen. Likely they will simply ride for themself until one comes on top. In terms of the Tour 2026. After the other can prove to be a valuable weapon for the team. All in all, worst case, they will be fighting on who is the favourite child and not the second favourite one, tough life.

As for Rogla and Remco i feel they will manage just fine. Currently it seems they chose separate schedules but at some point i feel that symbiosis has so many potential that even if there is currently some fear involved they can overcome that. If they will rather choose not to then individually they can both still win some. Lets not forget Rogla was offered support role and stage hunting for the Tour, that IMHO is an offer to decline, Remco wouldn't accept it either. So management need to do their part better also, support excellence.



At UAE Ayuso was a perfect scapegoat and majority just went with it as it suited them. At Lidl-Trek they are not good enough, to play such games in the first place. All in all they will be fine. At UAE it will be interesting to see on what happens when del Toro makes his move. It's bound to happen, appetite is too high not to do so.

You have multiple examples that knock the legs out from under your position. At Visma and Trek there was obvious, public insubordination, or maybe the teams owners and directors don't mind things like your riders criticizing your strategy at the TDF.
Maybe frustrated riders just venting. UAE is different, they had laid out what they wanted from Juan Ayuso, he didn't follow the rules and was emotional and temperamental and created a management problem.
Isaac Del Toro was( is) a dedicated soldier working towards team goals. Ayuso fell off his bike, was attacked by insects and UAE went with plan B, which was Del Toro. Fast forward, Del Toro has seized every opportunity and created others.
Isaac , humble, polite, soft spoken, loyal takes every opportunity to express teamwork and dedication towards the UAE goals, which are primarily to have strong, positive showing in every race, male or female.
UAE also doing everything possible to cement the legacy of Tadej Pogacar while wearing the team kit. You don't hear any UAE rider voice disagreement, discontent with UAE ..doesn't happen.
Juan Ayuso was never a scapegoat, he had long period to play as a teammate, good employee, but instead he voiced his opinions rather than team messaging.
Del Toro is somewhat unique , unlike Paul Seixas, Del Toro has a contract until 2029 with the team that is perceived to have financial headroom to sign elite ( expensive) riders.
Seixas is the hottest commodity in the sport and most observers, just assume that there is no bidding war, because few teams have money to make a lucrative offer. Ineos is rumored to have increased funding, Visma said to be fragile, Decathlon already playing the loyalty card, saying that they want Paul to stay if he believes in the vision, other teams like EF don't have money.
So the UCI has created the most bizarre situation , beyond comprehension. Riders sign contracts and if another team with more money comes and does a hostile takeover of a desired rider. UCI has created contracts worth toilet paper.
The idea that Del Toro could be approached by another team while obligated to UAE, is wrong on many levels,
UCI is creating a new norm and rider transfers will create another problem and the UCI can't solve any of the problems on their to do list.
Ayuso and Remco, Cian all moved to other teams with mutual agreement. If Decathlon or Israel Premier Tech want to honor the contract, there should be a mechanism at the UCI, not kick the issue to the court system in some country.. Ridiculous that rider contracts are worthless..
Your post is a perfect example, you write that things can happen based on the premise that the contract is not really legally binding and that teams with money make the rules.
Seixas is a bit different, his obligation to Decathlon is only until after 2027 ..will UAE wait a year? You see many comments about lopsided UAE with concentration of talent because of money, if UAE with the UCI blessing nab Paul Seixas away from another emerging team it sends a terrible message to everyone. If you are Van Rysel, Decathlon and your plan can be turned upside down on a whim ..ouch. Chilling message to sponsors, team owners, riders and race organizations.. If UAE signs Seixas, that means that someone will be left out of your race, UAE is not sending Seixas, Pogacar, Del Toro and Almedia to the same race.

 

[Red Rick]

Considering that we've seen riders try to continue racing with anything up to and including fatal injuries, it's not really a reliable indicator.

It's still better than a guy who is immobilized immediately or a guy who's knocked out getting loaded into the back of an ambulance.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Unchained

They are buddies now but ultimately both will want to win, same races, Seixas joining the team doesn't help. Ayuso would have to wait till Pogi, del Toro and after i guess Almeida to phase out, before getting a proper chance to lead. Seixas joining the team likely pushing him back again. At Lidl-Trek in worst case he is ATM second favourite and as it was said he gets paid more. IMHO he would be stupid not to switch teams and by doing that saying no to UAE and to what they had installed for him. Ayuso saw it differently.